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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: helvissa on Saturday 16 February 13 21:52 GMT (UK)
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I'm transcribing some pre-1841 Essex censuses. I've started with the 1831 Brightlingsea census. There's over 200 heads of household mentioned. Also, lots of fishermen, which shouldn't come as a surprise!
Should any of you find it useful:
http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/essex/brightlingsea.htm
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Thank You this shall be useful I am sure.
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Should any of you find it useful:
http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/essex/brightlingsea.htm
Hi Helvissa,
I am very interested in your work as I have a lot of ancestors in and around Brightlingsea.
Unfortunately I can not seem to access the transcribed lists, am I doing anything wrong?
Thank you in advance.
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I think I'm suffering an html fail! Try this: http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/essex/brightlingsea/
Oh - and which surnames are you interested in? Mine in Brightlingsea are mainly Savage, Field and Ward (I suspect that in 1831, my Field ancestor was living in the Ward household...).
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I think I'm suffering an html fail! Try this: http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/essex/brightlingsea/
Oh - and which surnames are you interested in? Mine in Brightlingsea are mainly Savage, Field and Ward (I suspect that in 1831, my Field ancestor was living in the Ward household...).
The two links on the page, to the pdfs, take me back to a html-looking (although the link ends in .pdf) page unfortunately.
I am interested in Butcher and Webb but also Long, Cardy and Hobrough maybe there too.
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It's all sorted now! :)
There's no Butcher, but there's a Webb.
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Thank you so much.
I'm having a search through now. ;D
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Beaumont-cum-Moze census for 1821 transcribed now too:
http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/essex/beaumont-cum-moze/
There are also lists from 1688 and 1747 of occupants of BCM including acreages (so it's like a head of households-only census for some of the parish inhabitants). These were in one of the parish registers.
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Hello Helvissa -thank you so much for your link to the 1831 census which I stumbled upon when doing a search.
My g.g grandparents-James Harvey and Elizabeth Hills married in Brightlingsea in 1810. I knew James had died by the time of the 1841 census. What I didn't know was that he had died between his last child's baptism in 1827 and 1831, which shows Elizabeth in a household of 4f and 1m-so presumably herself and 4 youngest children.
I haven't been able to find any birth or burial records for James but now I'm getting closer!
Thanks once again, Jan :)
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Hello Jan,
Oh good, I'm glad you've found it useful!
Was he a mariner? It's possible he wasn't at home on the night of the census, I suppose, if he was at sea? So he could still have been alive in 1831.
One of my Brightlingsea ancestors was married to a mariner who died (she remarried as a widow), but I can't find his burial there. It's possible he wasn't from Brightlingsea originally and that eventually he'll pop up being buried in a nearby parish, but I do wonder if he was lost at sea.
Which leads to an intriguing question - how did you prove that someone was lost at sea, enough that you could remarry? (slightly off topic there, but it's relevant!).
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Ah, wait, presumably it would be done by an inquest. So it's possible there might be newspaper reports in the local press, but not definite, I would imagine.
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James Harvey was a fisherman so could easily have been away on census night. I wasn't sure if the 1831 was a snapshot of one day like the later censuses? Since the occupation of fishermen was recorded I thought it might just be a profile of the households in the town.
As for lost at sea-no body found. Presumably if the boat was lost as well then there may have been an inquest. Otherwise wasn't there a period of time- 7 years I think- after which the missing person was presumed dead?
Do you know of any other Brightlingsea records? I don't know about James's birth or death, and noticed there were no other families called Harvey in the town in 1831. His wife Elizabeth Hills was born in Colchester and was living there with her younger daughters on the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
Her son -also called James Harvey was a fisherman living in Brightlingsea in the household of his eldest sister, Mary and her husband Robert Wade-also a fisherman
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I've had another look at the accompanying notes and it says:
"Persons, including Children (of whatever age) actually in the Parish, Township or Place at the time
of taking the Account, exclusive of Men actually serving in H. M.’s Regular Forces, the Militia;
Seamen in H. M.’s Service, or the registered Vessels. (this is expressed in the transcription as, for
example, 1m, 1f, which of course means, one male, one female)."
So it is possible that he was at sea on a boat on census night (equally, he may have died by then - this is what's unfortunate about early censuses - if it was 1851 it would say 'married' or 'widow').
I've got an Essex Ancestors account - I've also got the CD of Brightlingsea parish transcriptions that ESfFH have done. Have you had a look at those? Actually - I've also got ESfFH's CD of transcribed memorial inscriptions. I'll have a look and see if the Harveys are on there.
Have you had a look on http://www.freereg.org.uk/ ? I have transcribed several parishes in the Tendring district, so it's possible the Harveys appear there (a quick search reveals a lot of Harveys in St Osyth and surrounding parishes). There are also Harvey families further along the Colne in Wivenhoe, Fingringhoe and East Donyland, so James could conceivably have come from there.
You might also want to look at ESfFH's transcription CDs of Colchester. It isn't cheap buying the full coverage (1752-1851) but if you have a lot of family from Colchester, it's definitely worth it!
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Elizabeth Harvey(nee Hills) was definitely widowed by the time of the 1841 census.
I don't have access to any records for Brightlingsea. I've searched freereg and Family search for James Harvey to no avail-though Familysearch does have baptism records for his children.
I paid for a search by someone from the Essex FHS who found the record of the marriage between James Harvey and Elizabeth Hills (1787-1858) in Brightlingsea All Saints October 31 1810-both of Brightlingsea.
He was also able to confirm the baptism of their 8 children -and I have found burial records for two in childhood, and census records for the others-apart from Elizabeth Anne baptised August 1815 (the family habit of appending Anne as 3 daughter's second names doesn't help!).
It was going to be too expensive to research further. Any suggestions you can make would be most welcome, Jan
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It's difficult to know where to start, seeing as we don't have his age at death, so we can't estimate when he was born. It might be worth you paying £5 for a day's access to Essex Ancestors so you can go through the Brightlingsea register to see if he's there.
Then again, if you start a new thread on this forum, you could see if anyone else with an account fancies having a rootle about? I'll have a look at the CDs I have at home and let you know.
I've looked up their marriage just now and can see that they were married by banns, so there's no marriage licence which could've yielded more info. I've looked at the 1710-1811 apprenticeship register on Ancestry and can't find him on there, and the sailor records on Find My Past don't go back far enough! Quick look through the newspaper archive isn't yielding anything either.
Don't despair, though - I managed to find the marriage and then the baptism of an ancestor who I only knew existed because she was the mother appearing on baptisms in the 1760s. She was living in Wix, her children were born in Holbrook in Suffolk, and after lots of faffing about I just sat down one evening on Essex Ancestors and systematically checked *every* parish in the Tendring area, and then I found her marriage in Great Holland in 1764. I still don't have her husband's baptism or burial, or indeed her own burial (and being called Dorcas Sorrell after her 2nd husband died, she hasn't got a particularly usual name!), but after sheer determination paid off, I'm hopeful I will find the other info in the end - even if I go cross-eyed from reading old handwriting in the process!
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Ok, I might have stumbled across a clue.
I went through the transcriptions CD and found a marriage in 1838 between William Harvey (a coastguard) and Rebecca Ward in Brightlingsea. Rebecca is fact on my tree - a sister of my 4 x great-grandmother. I checked and I'd started researching William and Rebecca. He's the son of William Harvey, labourer, and was born in Dovercourt in 1807. It might be the case that he's related to James Harvey's family, and it might be that your James came from Dovercourt. It is only a suggestion, though! It might be that, if he was from somewhere like Dovercourt, he was buried there, rather than in Brightlingsea.
Another place to look: there's a Settlement Certificate for James Harvey and his family from 1752, settled in Elmstead (which is near Brightlingsea), and living in Bulmer (which is in Essex, but 4 miles south of Sudbury). There is an examination for a James Harvey in 1788 settled in Latchingdon, living in Gt Baddow. There's a 1765 removal of James Harvey from St Osyth to (Bures?). I only mention them in case they suggest places to look - the Elmstead one or St Osyth seem like possibles - perhaps! We are rummaging about in the dark, but these might be handy little clues.
Wait a second!!! If you search the Seax catalogue for harvey and brightlingsea, you get several results including a 1731 will of Daniel Harvey of Brightlingsea, oyster dredger, and an earlier will from 1608 for Francis Harvey of Brightlingsea, mariner. This suggests that perhaps your James was from Brightlingsea after all - he could perhaps be a grandson of Daniel Harvey?
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Helvissa
Just in case you have not found it, there is a Merchant Seamen's Ticket for William Harvey on FindMyPast. Currently he is shown as being born in Dovercourt in 1817, but this is a transcription error that has been reported to FindMyPast. At the time the ticket was issued he was a Commissioned Boatman in the CG Service at Stone Point, St Osyth. The Ticket is useful because not only does it provide a date and place of birth, but also a physical description and details of when he first went to sea.
Another source of records you may not have yet checked are the ADM 175 files, available as free downloads from the National Achives. Using these CG Establishment Books it is possible to trace a man's career. William was first nominated to the CG Service on 12 Nov 1831 from Harwich, with a posting to St Osyth. (ADM 175/6 pdf 663)
Martin
Coastguards of Yesteryear
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blimmin brilliant..... always wanted 1831 census portions..... excellent work and pdf....... good luck to you....... [fastfusion just wishes all 1831 surviving portions were done for UK]
:)
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Martin: That's amazing, I had no idea coastguards were on there, but I suppose it makes sense he started off with a mariner job - my knowledge of coastguards isn't vast (I went to the station in Clacton when I was in sailing cadets) so did they have to go to sea to rescue people, like now when the coastguard sends out helicopters? I've got an FindMyPast account, and I've just this second looked him up - brilliant! Thank you. :)
fastfusion: alas, so few of the pre-1841 censuses survive. Essex has an unnaturally high number of them, though, which is handy for us.... ;)
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Seamen's Tickets were introduced to provide information on all seamen so that in times of national crisis the Government would better know how many men were available to man the fleet, hence the system being very unpopular. The Tickets were introduced when men could move freely between the Royal and Merchant Navies, signing on only for the duration of a ship's commission, so these particular records can be overlooked by those with ancestors in the Royal Navy.
On your question about the roll of the Coastguards. As an organisation it did not come into existence until 1822, with it's primary function being the suppression of smuggling under the control of Customs and Excise. It was only after the Crimean War when some 2600 Coastguards were drafted into the navy to man the Baltic Fleet, that it transferred to the Admiralty, but it was only later that their lifesaving roll, that we know today. developed.
Martin
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Thank you for your help and interest, Helvissa. I don't have any evidence to link James Harvey with anywhere other than Brightlingsea, (although his wife came from Colchester, they married in Brightlingsea. She was a monthly nurse so perhaps had a patient there.)
James could certainly have come from another area but I don't know where. Interestingly their last daughter was born in Shoreham by Sea in Sussex, though baptised in Brightlingsea. I wondered whether the family was accompanying James on a fishing trip, but it's just possible he came from Sussex and they were visiting relatives?
If I pay for a day's subscription to Seax, what should I look for? I presume that James's birth and burial is not recorded? It would be interesting to find Elizabeth Hills's baptism in Colchester. Is the site easy to search?
I thought ,when I looked at the 1831 census, that they were the only Harveys in the town, but, of course, there may have been other men named Harvey, at sea.
Interestingly, I have relatives on my mother's side of the family,( who were from Yarmouth,) who lived in Dovercourt. David Dale was master of a lightship and lived at 16 Lee Road in 1891.(They had several children so some descendants may still be in the area) Other members of my mother's family also lived in Dovercourt for a time- but there were no links to the Harveys, from my father's side.
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Just an update-the Shoreham History portal has a list of parish baptisms from the 16th to the 19th centuries-no one with the surname Harvey at all. There were some Harvie, Harvy baptisms in the 16th and early 17th century-none of any variation, later than 1609. Obviously spelling of surnames varies through time, but it seems that Shoreham was not where James originated. Back to Brightlingsea!
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Martin: ah that's great - makes sense why they're sometimes referred to as "prevention officers" too. i.e. preventing smuggling. There was always a legend in Wivenhoe, where I grew up, that there was a smugglers' tunnel which came up somewhere near the church! In fact, I did find a newspaper report where one of my fisherman relatives was smuggling lots of booze. I can only apologise. I'll check out the other records you mentioned too - thank you!
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janfurness:
Harvey in Brightlingsea
I've looked through the Brightlingsea All Saints baptisms from 1769 to 1812 and written down every Harvey that appears:
7th May 1769 Jonathan of Nathaniel & Mary Harvey
19th April 1778 William son of William Harvey
7th March 1802 William son of William & Martha Harvey (one assumes the father here is about 24 and was the William baptised in 1778)
22nd September 1811 Mary daughter of James & Elizabeth Harvey <--- your family
I cannot see a baptism there for James, but with there being only that one baptism for a child of William Harvey, it's possible that James is his son and was baptised in another parish.
There are a lot of Harveys on the Webrarian site: http://www.webrarian.co.uk/ But I can't see your James. However, it does include a James Harvey born about 1692 and his son, also James, born about 1712, and both were from Brightlingsea. So again, we have the name associated with Brightlingsea. I really think that you'll find James in one of the other parishes in the Tendring area, but the question is, of course, which one?! The only way to find it will be to go through each parish register one by one. You can leave out the ones which appear on FreeREG and Family Search (if you look at Dusty Docs (http://dustydocs.com/county/1/england/12/essex.html), you can see the coverage of free transcriptions). The registers on Essex Ancestors (on Seax (http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/)) aren't indexed, so you have to find the one which covers the years you need and then go through each image - it can be difficult if you're not used to it, not only because of the handwriting but also because of the rather eccentric approach some vicars took to the arrangement of their registers! You would probably need more than a day to do it, and this comes with a health warning - parish registers are VERY addictive!
The transcription CD I have for Brightlingsea covers 1813-1851, and James isn't on there - his marriage was in 1810 so comes 3 years before it starts, and his rough date of birth (I suppose we might assume it was sometime around his wife's) falls well before it too (hence me going through the scans of the original register just now on Essex Ancestors). And it covers the period when we assume he died, but there's no burial for him. The only Harvey burials in Brightlingsea on the CD are for three of James & Elizabeth's children (Elizabeth Ann in 1815, James jnr in 1820 and Jane Caroline in 1825 (I think she's the one baptised as Jemima Caroline in 1823). The CD includes the marriages of Betsy Ann Harvey (born about 1817, married Wm Marrington Goff in 1842), and there's one for Mary Harvey, who married Robert Wade in 1836 - this could be the Mary, daughter of James & Elizabeth, baptised in 1811. The only other Harvey marriage in Brightlingsea is William Harvey and Rebecca Ward.
Note that on the CD there are transcriptions for Thorrington and Frating too - there are some Harveys there too, and I think one of the was called James, so be careful you don't pick the wrong James!
Hills in Colchester
I've checked the transciption CDs covering 1783-1812 and can't see a baptism for Elizabeth Hills in Colchester (also checked the extra-mural parishes - nothing there either). There's a Francis Hill, son of John & Catherine, born in 1789 and baptised at St Mary's at the Walls, which could be her brother if she was baptised outside Colchester. There is an Elizabeth Halls, daughter of James & Rachel, born in 1788 and baptised at St. Nicholas' (but there are a lot of children of James & Rachel Halls, so I suppose it's unlikely that it's a mistake between Hills and Halls, but I mention it as a possibility). (and just so you know - no James Harvey baptisms in Colchester either).
I have also checked the non-conformist records and can't see her there either.
There are, however, several people called Hills in "Colchester People" (the John Bensusan-Butt archive). I will need to have a read through and see if it mentions Elizabeth. They seem to be mainly prosperous baymakers.
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Thank you so much for your detailed and very helpful reply helvissa. I'm sorry not to have responded sooner-family illness and hospital visiting.
Your reply does solve what became of Elizabeth Anne-I've never found any records for her and I'd presumed she died before Betsey Anne was born as their names were so similar, but this confirms it.
Betsey is on the Webrarian site you mentioned-but there are no details of her parents or siblings.
There was a second son called James, in 1841 he was a fisherman living with his sister Mary and husband Robert Wade,(you were right there too.)
Only having 2 sons-both James doesn't give a clue as to possible fathers' names- a William would have been helpful!.
As for mothers-well Anne and Mary?-not much help there.
My ancestor was their youngest child-Emma Emilia- but they'd probably exhausted mothers' names by then and were free to be inventive!
Elizabeth Hills was born about 1787 and from Colchester according to the censuses. She lived in St Mary at the Walls after James's death.
It looks as though it will remain a mystery for a while longer- but thanks once again for your help.
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I've been doing a bit more searching for Elizabeth Hills in Colchester-this time on Familysearch. I didn't find her but I did find this family-
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AHills~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22England%2CEssex%22%20%2Bbirth_place%3AColchester%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1780-1800~
The parents are James and Mary Hill and they baptised their children-James, Ann, John, Robert and Mary in the Quaker church in Colchester between 1786 and 1793.
Obviously I have no proper evidence but this could be Elizabeth's family. Her firstborn child was Mary and the name Ann occurs several times. Ann Hill could even be Ann Elizabeth-known as Elizabeth. ( Elizabeth's daughter was Anne Flora, always known as Flora.) Mary Hills was a witness at her wedding.
What do you think-are they a likely family?
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It's always a possible. The Francis Hills baptism is on the transcription CD, baptised at St Mary's at the Walls, in the Church of England church, and it's very suggestive seeing as that the parish Elizabeth is in in 1851.
Extra evidence - are there any wills for that family?
There is a James Hills, born in St. Martin's, Colchester in about 1784 who appears in the Kilmainham records (found the reference on Discovery, actual record on FindMyPast). Went into the 34th Regt of Foot in Chelmsford in 1805. Enlisted again in the 3rd Veteran Regt of Foot (or something) in his 30s. Bearing in mind the supposed year of birth, could be Elizabeth's brother. But where is his baptism?!
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I ruled out the Francis Hills connection simply because his mother's name was Catharine. As a family they seemed to carry on Christian names. (There are 2 more generations of Floras for example.) As Elizabeth had 6 daughters and all bar Mary, the eldest, had 2 Christian names, i would have thought her mother's name would be there somewhere. I did wonder if, like her daughter, Emma Emilia, she was born in Colchester and baptised elsewhere, her parents' home village perhaps.
I've found that elsewhere in my tree-in this case the family travelled about 20 miles, from Norfolk to a Suffolk village, to baptise their children. The children's grandfather was the village parish clerk.
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Hi Helvissa
Many thanks for the Brightlingsea 1831 census results, which together with the FreeReg site referenced in these posts has helped me resolve an important link in my Pennick FT. I've been trying to connect a Joseph Pennick (b West Mersea in 1790) with a John Pennick (b Tollesbury in 1793) who, according to our family history (from a 1944 letter) were brothers.
From John's baptism record on FreeReg, his parents are listed as Samuel and Ann Pennock - the same as I had already found for Joseph, and on his marriage in Brightlingsea in 1817, Joseph is one of the witnesses.
Now in the 1831 census, you have a Joseph and a John Pennock listed, both from the same original page, so cleary living close to each other. What does the "re ics" against Joseph's record mean ?
I realise that in the "handwritten age" a badly written "i" with a faint or missing dot can easily be interpreted as an "o" and can quite see how my surname can be transcribed as Pennock or Pennick, but with both Joseph's and John's marriage records in Brightlingsea on FreeReg recorded as Pennick, I'm on a safe bet that they are the same families.
Both families were involved in the oyster business, with Joseph listed on the 1826 Brightlingsea voters list as an "oyster dredger". They are missing in the 1841 Census but I eventually found them in Jersey in the Channel Isles, with other Brightlingsea families - chasing the oysters. Later on, John's family seems to have moved to Falmouth and Shoreham, which from my researches are linked to Brightlingsea via the oyster trade.
This may be of interest to others with Brightlingsea fishermen in their families
Thanks again
Tony P
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Both families were involved in the oyster business, with Joseph listed on the 1826 Brightlingsea voters list as an "oyster dredger". They are missing in the 1841 Census but I eventually found them in Jersey in the Channel Isles, with other Brightlingsea families - chasing the oysters. Later on, John's family seems to have moved to Falmouth and Shoreham, which from my researches are linked to Brightlingsea via the oyster trade.
This may be of interest to others with Brightlingsea fishermen in their families
Thank you Tony -that is interesting, my GGrandmother (mentioned earlier in this conversation,) was a fisherman's daughter,born in Shoreham but baptised and raised in Brightlingsea. Obviously her father was an oyster fisherman. Jan :)
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for your post. The surname Pennock varies a bit its spelling, depending on who's writing it. Pennick, Penwick too I suppose is possible. Pannock as well. This is partly to do with the north-east Essex accent and the way the vowels sound - almost a bit Australian or South African (Howard and Hayward both come out a bit like "Hewerd").
I checked the census again and "re ics" in column 2. I don't know exactly what "re ics" means, but that column is to do with the building being "now built and not yet inhabited".
It's interesting you found your oyster dredgers in the Channel Islands - I'll add that as note on Essex & Suffolk Surnames as some of my family vanish for a few years here and there, and that could be where they've got to! I'll have to check that out. Thanks!
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Thank you Tony -that is interesting, my GGrandmother (mentioned earlier in this conversation,) was a fisherman's daughter,born in Shoreham but baptised and raised in Brightlingsea. Obviously her father was an oyster fisherman. Jan :)
Hello Jan,
I don't know why I didn't mention it to you before, but my gt-gt-grandmother was born in Steyning, which is 5 miles inland from Shoreham. Her father (William Savage, 1833-1914) was a mariner and moved his family up from Sussex to Brightlingsea. Interesting to see another Shoreham/Brightlingsea link in someone's tree!
(His wife was a Liverpool girl who he married up there and brought back to Sussex, and then onto Brightlingsea. Some of her ancestors were from the Isle of Mann! So you never know where your family tree research will take you sometimes.... "Oh no, my grandparents are very Essex." Erm... actually nope!).
BTW: I've been putting my Brightlingsea All Saints transcriptions online as pdfs if anyone's interested. It's not quite caught up yet with what's on FreeREG. I find it useful to be able to search in databases as well as on pdfs.
Helen.