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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: jwilko on Saturday 16 February 13 17:54 GMT (UK)

Title: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Saturday 16 February 13 17:54 GMT (UK)
Wondering if anybody knows the location of the graves that used to be in the graveyard at this church? It had a lot more character before the church changed it into a lawn.
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 16 February 13 20:04 GMT (UK)
The graves will still be there under the lawn.
Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 16 February 13 21:01 GMT (UK)
St. Michael’s and All Angels Churchyard, was added to in 1810, but all funerals were excluded on 15th October 1849 due to excessive overcrowding. Thornton Place Cemetery, Gill Bridge, Rector’s Gill, was given by Dr. Wellesley, the then Rector in 1839,  it was closed in 1856.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Saturday 16 February 13 22:59 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the reply stan.

What became of the headstones?

I know a relative was buried at the church in 1843. So my relative would have been buried in the graveyard from what you are saying?

I don't understand why a church like the Sunderland minster would want to disregard so much of its history and just replace it with grass, it's such a waste.

From a genealogy point of view, what's the next step to finding out who shared the burial plot if there isn't a headstone? I'm assuming that a grave holds as much information as a census household at times..and I'm guessing records were kept of who's buried where during this period, so how can I find out?

John

Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 08:27 GMT (UK)
Durham Records Online http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/ have the burial records for Bishopwearmouth St. Michael & All Angels.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 08:50 GMT (UK)
I know a relative was buried at the church in 1843. So my relative would have been buried in the graveyard from what you are saying?
John

Most burials 1839-1856 were at Thornton Place (Rector's Gill/Galley's Gill)  cemetery, and I would think by 1843 would almost certainly be there. There is an old photo of the cemetery at http://www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/explore/items/epidemics
You can see the site of the cemetery at http://goo.gl/maps/H8oZN

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Sunday 17 February 13 10:55 GMT (UK)
I purchased a record of burial from durham records online and it says the burial took place at st michaels & all angels? I'm guessing this would be the correct location? Is there a way of finding out who's buried in plots regardless of a remaining headstone?
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 12:06 GMT (UK)
I purchased a record of burial from durham records online and it says the burial took place at st michaels & all angels? I'm guessing this would be the correct location? Is there a way of finding out who's buried in plots regardless of a remaining headstone?

The parish register only records a burial service, the actual grave can be anywhere.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Sunday 17 February 13 12:29 GMT (UK)
No records were kept beyond the point of a burial service then? You are saying you cannot locate a grave without knowing where it is or finding a headstone?
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 14:07 GMT (UK)
It depends very much on the particular church, some graveyard plans do exist, but in this case both the old grave yard around the church and the cemetery in Galley's Gill, have been landscaped, the graves covered over. When the Galley's Gill cemetery was landscaped in 1972 some tombstones were stood up against the perimeter wall, and can still be seen, however the writing is almost illegible. I understand that a few tombstones are also against the wall at St. Michael's and  some used as flagstones around the church. Of course records exist of the location of graves in Municipal Cemeteries.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 17 February 13 14:46 GMT (UK)
Have you checked if there are Memorial Inscriptions for this graveyard?

Also, not everybody had a headstone.
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Sunday 17 February 13 16:53 GMT (UK)
My knowledge of genealogy is you find the correct BMD records and census matches and you use them and parish records to trace your tree. I've never put any further thought into what other records might exist to assist in my research after a death.

Where would I find out about monumental inscriptions at the church?

My way of thinking is surely a church kept records of the dead buried in each plot?  I think stan has said this information is recorded so a headstone is no longer necessary. I need to find out where to find it? What am I searching for stan and who do I need to ask?

John

Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 17:15 GMT (UK)
Durham County Record Office have no records of Graves or Grave Plans for St. Michael & All Angels Bishopwearmouth.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Sunday 17 February 13 17:27 GMT (UK)
Where would I find out about monumental inscriptions at the church?
John

Northumberland & Durham Family History Society, http://www.ndfhs.org.uk/ have a fiche of Bishopwearmouth St. Michael & All Angels Monumental Inscriptions, see http://www.ndfhs.org.uk/Resources_DUR.pdf

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Sunday 17 February 13 23:07 GMT (UK)
Would monumental inscriptions cover headstones and tombs?

John
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 18 February 13 00:02 GMT (UK)
Monumental Inscriptions are transcripts of what was written on the gravestones. Some information about the process here:
http://www.gravematters.org.uk/

Sometimes these are illegible, or the stones may have been removed or fallen prior to the transcriptions being taken, so not every gravestone that ever stood in this graveyard would necessarily have been transcribed.

Many families could not afford a headstone.
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Tuesday 19 February 13 20:41 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the help. Do either of you know of a website online that allows me to view old maps of Durham and Northumberland? I found a website some time back and it came up in a map viewer box like google maps but I could select the year in a drop down box to the side and see Sunderland as it was during all of the census years. It was a great site but I can't find it anymore
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Tuesday 19 February 13 22:08 GMT (UK)
I think you mean http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html
You could also try http://www.durham-images.org/public/cemeteries/maps.html
http://gis.durham.gov.uk/website/interMAP/viewer.htm

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 19 February 13 23:47 GMT (UK)
Old maps was good. They have reduced the number of features so it is not as useful as it used to be, so you will probably notice a difference.
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 20 February 13 09:09 GMT (UK)
They have just removed the "enhanced zoom" which enabled you to get a larger image. You get much better quality images than those on the Durham  Site.

Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 20 February 13 12:37 GMT (UK)
Ability to scroll around the map has also been reduced. Combined with the limited zoom function it is far less usable than it used to be.
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 20 February 13 13:14 GMT (UK)
The ability to scroll round the map was part of the enhanced zoom
Stan
Title: Re: Sunderland minster, st Michaels & all angels
Post by: jwilko on Wednesday 20 February 13 13:31 GMT (UK)
That's probably the website I was thinking of the map box looks similar. Thank you for the help