RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: 03jmain on Friday 15 February 13 15:52 GMT (UK)
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i have been trying to track down my great great great Grandparents for some time now, i have found some but i cant seem to get any further, I have;
Husband;
George Henry Warley
Birth abt 1887 in Aldenham, Hertfordshire, England
Wife;
UNKNOWN
Son;
William Henry Warley
Birth 23 Nov 1913 in Plymouth
Death 24 Dec 1991 in Plymouth, Devon, England
I have the information after them but nothing before, any help would be appreciated thanks
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If you were to get William's birth cert , it would give you his mothers name and maiden name, and enable you to find the marriage, and hopefully work back from there.
Have you found George Henry in any censuses?
Have you checked FreeBMD for any obvious marriages for him?
Thinking about it, as Williams birth is in 1913, the birth index on FreeBMD should show his mothers maiden name!
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat :)
William Henrys birth registration gives his mothers maiden name as James
Births December qtr 1913
Warley William H (James)
Plympton 5b 316
The only marriage I can see for a Warley marrying a James is
June qtr 1912
Margaret M James (Spouse Warley)
Alfred H Warley (Spouse James)
Plympton 5b 508
ADDED this does not match your research though :-\
Rosie
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Here it is
Birth
Oct/Nov/Dec 1913
Plympton St Mary ref 5b 316
William H Warley mothers maiden name James
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat
Possible 1901 -
Henry Warley 38 Bricklayer
Mary Ann Warley wife 38
Henry Warley son 14
Fredk Warley son 11
Ernest R Warley son 10
Walter Warley son 8
James Warley son 4
Arthur Warley son 4
Ada Warley dau 2
Herbert Warley son 3 Days
All born in Aldenham
Letchmore Heath, Aldenham RG13 Piece 1314 Folio 21 Page 5
JJ
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fantastic help everyone, thankyou so much - only discovered this website this afternoon.
im trying to find the "mary ann warley (james)" that you pointed out - ancestry website where i have been building my tree isnt coming up with anything for that name though :(
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Sorry? What Mary Ann Warley (James) !!?
Rosie found a marriage for Alfred Warley to Margaret James - who could well be William's parents.
What is the source of your info that William's dad was George Henry?
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I think you may have the wrong family :-\
The only marriage I can see for a Warley marrying a James is
June qtr 1912
Margaret M James (Spouse Warley)
Alfred H Warley (Spouse James)
Plympton 5b 508
Alfred H Warley was born in Plymouth
December qtr 1891
Warley Alfred Henry
Plymouth 5b 211
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William Henry Warley - 1913 is definatly correct as i have a birth index and it says that mothers maden name is James
I have other family papers saying that George Henry Warley is williams father but i have no paperwork to say anything of the mother other than a maiden name being James
i Appologise now, i didnt explain myself as well as i thought i had before....
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ancestry website where i have been building my tree isnt coming up with anything for that name though :(
Please treat Hints on Ancestry with caution. A lot of us on here will tell tales of the wrong information they blindly copied from Ancestry when they first started their trees. Check everything if you can with source documentation. We are all glad to help on here so don't be afraid to ask anything. The only thing we don't discuss is living people.
Rosie
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William Henry Warley - 1913 is definatly correct as i have a birth index and it says that mothers maden name is James
May I ask who William Henry Warley married :-\
Rosie
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Sounds like getting a copy of William Henry's 1913 birth cert would be a wise investment - then you would know both his parents names for sure and not start following a completely wrong line.
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William Henry Warley - 1913 is definatly correct as i have a birth index and it says that mothers maden name is James
May I ask who William Henry Warley married :-\
Rosie
William Henry Warley married an Ethel Emily Small
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Do you have that marriage cert? If so who does he name as father on there?
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Do you have that marriage cert? If so who does he name as father on there?
no i dont but her father was Frederick Henry Small... that side of the tree has been well researched, back to the 1700's its the warley side that im struggling with///
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Not a lot more to say - the birth cert would put an end to your struggles!
But (as asked before) where did the info come from that his father is a George Henry?
The indexes indicate it is more likely to be Alfred H - but that is not confirmed (you need the cert for that)
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ok ill get on to a certificate - thanks for your help
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I am a little curious about this all round.
(First off, it is a really good idea to start out with what you really *know*, in this case that your grx2 grandparents were William Warley and Ethel Small who married in 1941 -- if that is what is known for certain, to the certain knowledge of living people or from a chain of certificates.)
You are looking for the identity of your grx3 grandparents, the parents of your grx2 grandparent William Henry Warley 1913.
William married in 1941 and had children in the 1940s.
So someone born in the 1940s was your great-grandparent ... your great-grandparent is barely older than me!
At a stretch:
The eldest of their children (I believe this is the correct child, from a surname in a later generation) could have had a child around 1960 who would be your grandparent.
That child could have had a child in the late 1970s who is your parent.
That would make you born in 1995ish at the earliest, really! Unless there was a succession of really very young parents in your recent ancestry.
It's about 70 years since the birth of the eldest child of your grx2 grandparents William and Ethel, who would be your great-grandparent. We need to squeeze in three more generations of people who are now adults, in those 70 years: 70 divided by 4 is an average of 17.5 years -- say they were born:
1942 - 1960 - 1978 - 1996
-- or something like that -- which would make you about 17. Were all of your recent ancestors child brides or grooms? ;D
I can't resist -- You say you have been trying to track down your grx3 grandparents for some time now ... is that measured in weeks? ;)
Are you quite sure that this couple -- William H Warley and Ethel E Small who married in 1941 -- are your great-great-grandparents?
I don't mean to pry or be rude, it's just that it really would be uncommon these days for someone to be a great-grandparent before the age of 55: it takes three generations of people having children before the age of 18, on average. And it doesn't seem like that is what happened in your family. It seems like you have added at least one generation between William & Ethel and yourself that did not exist.
Obviously you don't need to give us details and shouldn't, about any living people, but are you very sure that your tree goes:
you
your parent
your grandparent
your great-grandparent
your great-great-grandparents William Warley 1913 and Ethel Small 1916
? This probably doesn't affect your tree back from there, as the descent from the 1941 marriage makes sense except for the number of generations. But it's a good idea to be very sure of who you are tracing.
So ... if William and Ethel are your forebears one way or another ... and William is the one born 1913 to Margaret M James and Alfred H Warley:
Margaret M Warley born c1895 died 1931 in Plympton
Alfred Henry Warley born 1891 died 1974 in Plymouth
So ... one would think that the living child and grandchild of William & Ethel would have known Alfred before his death in 1974, if he was William's father?
In 1901, Alfred Warley was in Plymouth with parents William H and Bessie.
I think Margaret James must have been from Wales, but far too many Margaret M James-s were born 1895-6 to guess.
Do come back with the certificate info when you have it, and good luck!!
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I have sent you a PM.... ethel and william are my 2x great grandparents... im looking for williams parents, my 3x great grandparents
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Got your PM, and no, I am not the one who has the generations muddled up. ;)
It goes exactly as I had surmised:
you
your parent C
your grandparent S
your great-grandparents William Henry Warley and Ethel Emily Small
As I said, you invented an extra generation in there! William's parents are your grx2 grandparents, not your grx3 grandparents.
And that's what you said in your PM -- but in your thread here, you started out by saying that William's parents were your great great great grandparents.
I guess it was just a slip of the keyboard, but it threw me, anyway, for a loop. ;) But you're still saying that now! --
ethel and william are my 2x great grandparents... im looking for williams parents, my 3x great grandparents
Noooo, they aren't.
William and Ethel are your great-grandparents, not your 2x great grandparents.
William's parents are your 2x great grandparents, not your 3x great grandparents.
As you say, both C and S can remember William and Ethel -- but can S at least not remember Alfred? Alfred died three decades after S was born. If he was S's grandfather, would S not have known him? Does S recall paternal grandparents at all?
It certainly looks like William's parents were Alfred Henry Warley and Margaret M James -- but William's birth certificate is the only thing that will say for sure!
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yes sorry, i know what im meaning but its not what im typing... appoligies everyone! ive been going back and fourth through generations and my mind is mush!
anyway back on topic, no S cant remember her grandparents - something went on and william was basically shunned by his parents so S never actually met her grandparents
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Ah, one always wonders about estrangements, and how they do chop down family trees and leave stumps. ;)
(We in the colonies have a similar problem -- the generation that left and all subsequent generations are out of sight, out of mind, as far as those who stayed home are concerned, and too often just didn't pass on family information at all.)
Git the 1913 birth certificate, and it should all come clear! If the parents are Alfred and Margaret, Alfred seems pretty easy to sort out now, and at least knowing Margaret's father's name will help with looking for her. A Margaret James in Wales may be even worse than my James Hill in Cornwall for identifying, and whatever her father's name is, it won't likely help much more, but it all gives us something to do. ;D
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Ah, one always wonders about estrangements, and how they do chop down family trees and leave stumps. ;)
Yes, so we'll most likley never know now but all my grandmother knows is that she was never taken to visit her grandparents and never knew anything about them... i have a theory that it was to do with him getting hitched to a "Small" as apparently they had a lot of gypsies on their side of them family whereas the warley side of the family were very proper...
Git the 1913 birth certificate, and it should all come clear! If the parents are Alfred and Margaret, Alfred seems pretty easy to sort out now, and at least knowing Margaret's father's name will help with looking for her. A Margaret James in Wales may be even worse than my James Hill in Cornwall for identifying, and whatever her father's name is, it won't likely help much more, but it all gives us something to do. ;D
I have ordered the certificates tonight, so hopefully it could help me... i didnt know you could actually do this, wasnt expecting quite so much of a charge - i wont be ordering certificates for everyone!
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I hope that you ordered them through the GRO at Southport (£9.25) and not one of the other highly inflated sites. :) Luckily nowadays you can find out quite a bit without having to purchase certificates but it is always the best route when in doubt. Let us know what they say. ;D
Rosie
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well well well, big overhall here - i got the birth certificate for william henry warley only to find that williams father isnt george as i was informed - it is infact a Alfred henry warley and a Margaret (aka maggie) may warley formally james - but sadly this information doesnt show any kind of hints on ancestry.com so im not getting any further back just yet:/
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An Alfred Henry WARLEY was baptised at Sutton-on-Plym, Plymouth, Devon, 8th Sep 1891, son of William Henry WARLEY (a shipwright) and Bessie. So it looks as though your William Henry was named for his grandfather.
Here is the family in 1891:
Piece: RG12/1729 Plymouth, Enumeration District: 18
Plymouth Charles, Ecclesiastical Parish: St Johns
Folio 96 Page 53 Schedule 398; 32 St. Johns Road
WARLEY William H. Head Marr 23 Shipwright b. Plymouth
WARLEY Bessie Wife Marr 22 b. Plymouth
WARLEY William J. Son 2 b. Plymouth
WARLEY Ernest E. Son 11m b. Plymouth
Maggie May JAMES was baptised at Brixton 28 Apr 1895, dau of Thomas (a labourer) & Mary of Brixton.
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but sadly this information doesnt show any kind of hints on ancestry.com so im not getting any further back just yet:/
Hints are just hints - you can't do research by relying on them!
The info from the birth cert takes you back to the marriage that was found in reply #2
So you are a step further.
That marriage cert, or finding the marriage in a parish register, would give the names of the bride and grooms fathers, hopefully you will then be able to trace the family back through the censuses.
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Hints are just hints - you can't do research by relying on them!
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i wasnt relying on them - but i was hoping it would shine some light on something...
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An Alfred Henry WARLEY was baptised at Sutton-on-Plym, Plymouth, Devon, 8th Sep 1891, son of William Henry WARLEY (a shipwright) and Bessie. So it looks as though your William Henry was named for his grandfather.
Here is the family in 1891:
Piece: RG12/1729 Plymouth, Enumeration District: 18
Plymouth Charles, Ecclesiastical Parish: St Johns
Folio 96 Page 53 Schedule 398; 32 St. Johns Road
WARLEY William H. Head Marr 23 Shipwright b. Plymouth
WARLEY Bessie Wife Marr 22 b. Plymouth
WARLEY William J. Son 2 b. Plymouth
WARLEY Ernest E. Son 11m b. Plymouth
Maggie May JAMES was baptised at Brixton 28 Apr 1895, dau of Thomas (a labourer) & Mary of Brixton.
Did you miss this?
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Did you miss this?
there is no need to be so patronising! no i didnt miss this - i was having this decussion before you go involved, yes i saw it - but as i said before, i was hoping that by adding that name would show some stuff on ACESTRY where i have been working i know other places to do research do exist, i was talking about one place