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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: MonicaL on Wednesday 13 February 13 17:52 GMT (UK)

Title: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 13 February 13 17:52 GMT (UK)
Hi  :)

emjaye has this post running on the Scottish boards www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,635408.0.html

I am just wondering if anyone can figure out the words around the mother's maiden name? There is a line which I read to be a blank for the maiden name. It is the other words around that blank/line that I struggle with  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: JustLooking on Wednesday 13 February 13 18:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica

It looks like Fine in brackets and then something like Flechanny written above.

Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 13 February 13 19:53 GMT (UK)
It's odd looking don't you think?

The death (1865) of a 26 year old man who was illigitimate and confirmed as such on his death entry on the register. Death reported by a paternal uncle.

Robert Cameron cannot be easily found on the earlier censuses so all quite very hard to get a thread really  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 13 February 13 20:29 GMT (UK)
Does the mystery writing say "Richard", perhaps? 
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 13 February 13 20:30 GMT (UK)
here's my two pennyworth:

(sic name)

(Fine)
----------
dictionary: sic = Used to indicate that a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 13 February 13 23:23 GMT (UK)
I reckon emjaye should ask SP to send out another, better copy of the document, they are usually very good about doing this and it should hopefully solve the mystery.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 14 February 13 00:04 GMT (UK)
Agree with Prue about requesting a better copy.  :)
Also agree with 'Fine'.
But while you are waiting, might the word/s possibly in brackets be (u/k name), as in 'unknown name'?  :-\ I can't really see the letters u/k but I think this seems to relate to the name Fine in brackets and it's the only thing I can think of that sort of makes sense. It may be another abbreviation though (the space doesn't appear big enough for a full word).
I think the second part may be 'name' though. It looks to have been added later in another hand.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 14 February 13 08:24 GMT (UK)
Ruskie, like you I thought that the top string did include maybe the word 'name'. I will pass comments onto emjaye and suggest contact with SP for an enhancement.

Just as an aside. There is no note on the l/h margin of the entry to indicate any major additions and changes which would include a reference to an entry in the Register of Corrected Entries (RCEs).

Thank you everyone  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Rena on Thursday 14 February 13 09:03 GMT (UK)
The only name I've ever heard of that sounds like "Fine" is  "Fiennes"
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 14 February 13 09:39 GMT (UK)
I would like to add a new connected request for help please.

Do people think that the signatures below for a Donald Cameron are the same. One from 1863 and the other from 1865, included below:
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 February 13 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Monica

They look the same to me

brevitas

PS - Have looked at the death cert very large and played around with it in PS but still not clear  :(
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 14 February 13 09:41 GMT (UK)
Does the mystery writing say "Richard", perhaps?

I agree with Prue,I thought it said Richard or Richards too.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 14 February 13 09:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks Brevitas and Carol.

Great you think that they are the same Brevitas...building up a lead for the reputed father here! The only link to reputed father is the Uncle who reported death and an address for him in 1865.

Carol, what do you think on the new attachments?

Monica

Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 14 February 13 09:56 GMT (UK)
They look the same, but are you sure that they are both the original signature of Donald Cameron rather than the Registrar transcribing the signature into the duplicate book? How do they compare with the handwriting on the rest of the certificates?

Where was Joana Cameron born?
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 14 February 13 10:02 GMT (UK)
I just typed the same reply as Ian,but it seems to have vanished  >:(

I too wondered if they were the actual person's signature or that of the registrar.

My mum and her cousin who were the same age and at school together,had identical writing ,I always thought it was down to the way they were taught at the time.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 14 February 13 10:08 GMT (UK)
I just typed the same reply as Ian

If you mean me, I am not Ian, I am a not-Ian hailing from Forfar!  ;)
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 14 February 13 10:14 GMT (UK)
I just typed the same reply as Ian

If you mean me, I am not Ian, I am a not-Ian hailing from Forfar!  ;)

Something very odd is appening here?

I'm sure I typed Forfarian.....and also I DID type a message before yours and now that has disappeared. Spooky or what?

Maybe I should go and get a coffee and things will get better  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 14 February 13 10:18 GMT (UK)
I DID type a message before yours and now that has disappeared. Spooky or what?

Aye. I typed a long reply yesterday and it vanished into the ether too.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 14 February 13 10:19 GMT (UK)
Could I add that the signature on the death cert is not in the same hand as the rest of the entry, so one must assume it is that of the uncle.

brevitas

(and now I must away to the hairdresser's  :-X ;D )
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 14 February 13 10:24 GMT (UK)
Yes, as Brevitas has commented, the signatures of Donald Cameron on both certs distinctly different to that by the Registrar.

Brevitas and I have added some more background now to the other post if anyone is curious where this is going (I am quietly excited  ;D).

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,635408.msg4831014.html#msg4831014

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 14 February 13 22:27 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Just a suggestion but could the mothers maiden name be Finnie? Just sounding Fine phonetically

Fin eee?

Can't make out the word/words above but it looks like "something name".

Hope you solve the mystery! :)

Loobylooayr
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 14 February 13 22:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Loobylooayr

Thank you for you comments  :)

Hopefully an enhanced image from Scotlands People might help!

I am certainly puzzled by what is there too.

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: jael438 on Thursday 14 February 13 23:16 GMT (UK)
Sorry to bung a spanner in the works, but isn't it strange hoe we see things?

I read FINE but close up it looks like FLIRTIE ?  the scribbling above i read as FLAHERTY or FELICITY

can also see a little bit of richard
John
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 14 February 13 23:20 GMT (UK)

can also see a little bit of richard
John

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Maybe you'd better not tell us which bit John  :o

I'm going to bed giggling now !

Carol
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 15 February 13 11:18 GMT (UK)
emjaye followed the advice and contacted SP regarding the illegibility of the words around the mother Jane's name. Quoting from emjaye's posting on the other thread:

Hi All,

This is the reply from SP:

I have taken a look in the register but unfortunately my colleagues and I are slightly at a loss as how to interpret what's written. Jane's surname was obviously unknown to the informant, hence the line after her forename, but it looks as if he has attempted to guess at it and the clerk has written it down in pencil. The word in ink appears to read 'Fine', although whether that refers to the surname of something else we really cannot say. I'm afraid the writing in pencil is too difficult to make out with any certainty, although it does seem to start with an 'F'.
I'm sorry not to have been of more help in this instance.

not much help I'm afraid......
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Stormâ„¢ on Friday 15 February 13 11:43 GMT (UK)
The f of fine in brackets is slightly different to the F above. Bit more squashed. Thine? above the brackets it looks like nee harvey maybe?
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 February 13 11:56 GMT (UK)
The f of fine in brackets is slightly different to the F above. Bit more squashed. Thine? above the brackets it looks like nee harvey maybe?

I think that they're written in different hands

brevitas
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Geoff-E on Friday 15 February 13 12:58 GMT (UK)
If something has been added in a different hand, shouldn't there be a note in the (right hand?) margin?
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Polldoll on Friday 15 February 13 16:40 GMT (UK)
Hi y'all  Just adding my two pennies worth ( strange innit how we all look at the same thing yet can see something different ;D  I think that  what some people are reading as an F in Flehanney could be an M as in Mc and the line that makes it look like the top line of a capital F could  in fact be part  of the closing bracket  from the line above . So I think that it could be a name like McNairy  or Mc Henry or similar ....maybe .... :-\ ???
Poll
 Hi Brevitas .... makes us squint a bit this doesn't it? ;) ;D
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 15 February 13 16:46 GMT (UK)
If something has been added in a different hand, shouldn't there be a note in the (right hand?) margin?

This is what has puzzled me...amongst other things here  ::) ;)...any formal edits and corrections are normally clearly marked with a corresponding clerical note on the l/h margin on the register. There isn't anything showing against this entry. The inference being it was written up at the same time perhaps?

Like Brevitas, have seen too many Scottish BMDs  :P Haven't come across this before when an additional annotation just sits there and doesn't make sense!

Monica
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 February 13 17:08 GMT (UK)
I even checked the cert again and there's nothing. I assume that it was written up nicely and just the pencil scrawl added( or vice versa)!

I'm now getting mixed up between threads - I  have found a possible Jane Finnie but will have to do some more work on her.
Title: Re: Mother's Maiden name on a Scottish Death Cert?
Post by: jael438 on Friday 15 February 13 22:41 GMT (UK)
Hichattey???
John