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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Forfarian on Monday 11 February 13 20:21 GMT (UK)
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That is, if it is actually DNP and not DSP or DVP or DHP!
It occurs on several pages of the New Monkland baptism register in the 1780s and 1790s. The register is laid out in rough columns, for date, parents' names, child's name and parents' residence. When it occurs, D?P is written above the place of residence.
I wondered if it might be 'Did Not Pay' but there seem to be rather a large number of such listings, and they mostly, if not all, pre-date the introduction of the short-lived fee for recording baptisms in the parish register.
Also wondered about 'Decessit vivendo patre' ('died during father's lifetime') but (a) in some of the entries it is a clear 'N', and (b) I know for certain that some of the children with the mystery annotations did not predecease their father. (Specifically, Elizabeth Waddell's brother Matthew, in his will dated 1820, describes Elizabeth as widow of John Bisset of Caldercroox, and he leaves money to these three Bisset children.)
I've attached a page so you can see what I mean. (Moderator - I considered cropping it but I think you need the whole page to see the variations.)
It has just struck me that all the annotated entries on this page are out of their chronological order - the page is dated 1792 but most of the entries are earlier.
Ideas, anyone?
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DSP in the parish registers can often be:
Decessit sine prole, died without issue - http://keithdash.net/OldWords.pdf
Makes no sense though here :-\ So, different meaning to the initials.
Monica
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DSP in the parish registers can often be:
Decessit sine prole, died without issue
Makes no sense though here
No, I did think of that, but it's hard to see how that would be relevant in the register of baptisms ???
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D H P? de hac parochia = of this parish
Two places do not have the mystery designation. Are they in the parish? I've not seen this before either.
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D H P? domicilium horum parentum = abode of these parents
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Two places do not have the mystery designation. Are they in the parish? I've not seen this before either.
Crookeddyke is in New Monkland, and I can't make out the name of the other place not annotated.
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Hi All
The way the page is laid out reminds me of the OPRs from Muthill Perthshire, where the records had been destroyed during the 45 when the beadles house was destroyed. From memory of the records the minister went knocking on doors to get details of the families living there and in some cases there are 3 or 4 generations of the same family on the one page.It still does not explain the annotations but could give an indication why there are families listed in order as opposed to dates.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi
A non-Latin possibility - the Stamp Duties Act - between 1783 and 1794 stamp duty of 3d was levied on entries in parish registers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Duties_Act_1783
Maybe DNP = Did Not Pay.
brevitas
PS - I note that Forfarian did think this but thought the dates were too early:
pre-date the introduction of the short-lived fee for recording baptisms in the parish register.
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Looks like D&P to me?
Jennifer
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I've just looked at some pages for 1782 in the New Monkland baptism registers and none of the entries have the letters written, so I do think it's worth considering the 1783-1794 Act.
I've now also looked at some from 1795-6 and, again, no extra letters.
brevitas
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Arttached examples of an N, H and S from the same register.
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You could well be right, Brevitas. I had it in mind that the stamp duty wasn't introduced until the 1790s.
So suppose they were all left out of the register for not paying, then when the stamp duty was abolished they all rushed to repair the omission for free.
But if the stamp duty wasn't abolished until 1794, why would they all be getting the backlog recorded in 1792?
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Hello
I'm going to get a copy of this - looks interesting:
http://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/jshs.2010.0005
:)
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Looks very interesting!
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DNP = Duty Now Paid?
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Could be!
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F, have you seen this stuff, http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/waddell/disc
Skoosh
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Have you seen this stuff
Yes, thank you.
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Moderator comment: topics merged
I've been puzzling over what the abbreviation that looks like DNP means, as in the attached screenshot.
I have considered various ideas including DVP for 'decessit vivendo patre' i.e. died during its father's lifetime; something to do with vaccination; and simply 'Did Not Pay' but every baptism on the page is annotated with it, and I can't believe that none of the parents paid if they were supposed to.
Any other ideas?
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Follow on from here ??
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=635377.0
Malky
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Could it be simply the minister's initials?
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Could it be simply the minister's initials?
That was my thinking but haven't yet found a minister to match up with the initials!
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Confound it! I had completely forgotten that I'd already asked the same question. My profound apologies to all.
I have asked the moderator to amalgamate the threads.
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Compare what you think as is an "n" and the Spelling of the various "Airdrie(s)" especially the second "r".
Malky
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Could it be D&P?
(Declared and Paid)
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Could it be simply the minister's initials?
This is very unlikely - the minister at New Monkland from 1759 to 1793 was Revd. Patrick Maxwell, followed by Revd. Thomas Freebairn/Fairbairn from 1794 to 1800. [via Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae available via www.ecclegen.com]
Gadget's suggestion of something to do with the Stamp Duty Acts[such as Did Not Pay, or Duty Not Paid] seems more persuasive given that the annotations only seem to appear when these were in force .
Best wishes
Rockford