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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: TheresaM on Monday 11 February 13 02:33 GMT (UK)
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Hello Everyone,
I'm looking for my great great grandmother Sarah's maiden name!
Her daugher Mary Jane McDermott married Charles King in Rostrevor, County Down in May 1870.
The Marriage certificate lists Mary Jane as living in Newtown ( & Charles in Rostrevor) Her parents are listed as James McDermott and Sarah ???
Mary Jane's death certificate ( Australia) has her age as 83 in 1929. Immigration records in 1870 on the Flying Cloud, give her as 20. This would mean her birth was between 1846 - 1850.
Any help in finding Sarah McDermott's maiden name or Mary Jane's birth certificate would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
TheresaM
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The only marriage I can find for James McDermott and Sarah? in roughly the right time frame is
James
McDERMOT . Knockbreda regd. Castlereagh; son of Patrick McDermot ; aged 21 married Sarah Loughlim 11 Oct 1852
I have the full marriage transcription if you think this MIGHT be them.
This marriage was in Belfast (Ballymacarret)
RosemaryJoan
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Hello Rosemary,
I don't think that's them.
My g grandmother Mary Jane was married in the Catholic chuch at Rostrevor, so I assume that Sarah & James would have been Catholic.This Sarah & James were Church of Ireland.
Thanks
TheresaM
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Hello again Rosemary,
Can I now accept your kind offer of a copy of the fulll transcript of the Marriage of James McDermott and Sarah Loughlin in Belfast in 1852?
I have been told not to rule out the possibility that this could be them.
Thank you
TheresaM
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TheresaM
I will send you a PM
rOSEMARYjOAN
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Therese M
The records for Rostrevor R.C.(Kilbrony Church are held in PRONI, ref no. MIC/1D/24-25; P.5499
RosemaryJoan
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Thank you for that info Rosemary.
PRONI is certainly one place we'll be going.
TheresaM
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Hi Theresa,
At the time of the Griffiths Valuation for Co. Down (1863), there is no James McDermott living in Newtown townland in the parish of Kilbroney (Rostrevor). There is a John McDermott living in townland of Levallyclanone which is close but not that close to Newtown. Also, AncestryIreland has most of Kilbroney's baptismal records up on their (pay per view) website and there is no baptism there for Mary Jane (Kilbroney's baptismal records start in 1808 although the early records are patchy). However, there is a James McDermott living in the neighbouring parish of Kilkeel, located in the townland of Grange farming just over 8 acres of land (there is also a Clement and Patrick McDermott living close to James, so they may be brothers). There is also mention of a Clem and Brien McDermed living in Grange in 1803 who may be ancestors of the ones living in Grange in 1863. There are still McDermotts living in Grange in the 1901 and 1911 censes.
Mary Jane may have been working in Newtown as a domestic servant or living with relatives at the time of her marriage - marriage certs just give the place where they were living just before they married and not necessarily where they were born.
You would probably have a better chance of finding her baptismal record in the Kilkeel records which start in 1839 but are not legible until 1845. They are also microfilmed and can be accessed in PRONI in Belfast and the National Library in Dublin. if you cannot get to these places, you can order them from your nearest Mormon genealogical centre. After 1845, the Kilkeel records are transcribed and very easy to read but before that they are impossible! Kilkeel civil parish is divided into 2 religious parishes - Kilkeel and Mourne. As far as I know, Grange falls under Kilkeel religious parish but you could try Mourne if you have no success with the Kilkeel records. Sarah may have been born in 1844 so you might miss her baptismal record but she could have had siblings born after 1845 so you will probably find her parents there. McDermott was not a very common name for that area.
You won't be able to get a birth cert as civil registration only started in 1864 for births. I am surprised that you got her mother's name on the marriage cert as civil marriage certs only gives names of fathers and not mothers. Also, the Kilbroney marriage records (for that period anyway), only gave the names of the bride and groom and their witnesses. Did you get Sarah's name from the civil marriage record or from some other record?
Good luck with your research
Kind regards
Deirdre
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Hello Deirdre,
Thank you for taking the time to do some research on the McDermotts.
Rosemary Joan, another Roots chatter, has found Sarah ( Morrison) Mc Dermott's maiden name for me. Thank you Rosemary! She also found three of Mary Jane's siblings in Kilbroney Parish records, but no Mary Jane.
Her death certificate ( Australia) gives her birth place as Dungallon. Ireland. It gives her mother's name also her father's occupation ( Shovel Finisher).
Would I get much information at the catholic church in Kilkeel or would I be better to see the PRONI records ? I will be visiting County Down in May, so I'm trying to find out as much information about the McDermotts as I can..
Thank you,
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
To save you some time when you get to ireland, I will have a look at the Kilkeel parish records for you and let you know if I can find Mary Jane. If you wanted to visit the church in Kilkeel, you would have to ring in advance and make an appointment and not all priests are happy with people looking at the originals. You are probably better off just going to PRONI, especially if you are looking for records before 1880.
I haven't come across any place name in Co. Down like Dungallon, it sounds more like Dungannon, Co Tyrone. It is possible that James and Sarah moved to Rostrevor looking for work.
Wil get back to you next week, once I have looked at the Kilkeel records.
Regards
Deirdre
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That would be great, thank you Deirdre. :)
I checked LDS on line catalogue, but they do not have the microfilms for the Parish of Kilkeel.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Theresa
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There is a townland called Dunnamon in Kilkeel Parish. I bet this is it, as two lls can look like m!!
Here is a link to a map of the Parish of Kilkeel. You will see that Dunnamon (no. 23) is on the Rostrevor Road.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/KilkeelTownlands.htm
RosemaryJoan
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You will find details of Dunnamon R.C. church at this link. Same website as before.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/KilkeelAll.htm#glass
RosemaryJoan
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Thanks Rosemary,
Ros Davies' County Down is an excellent site!
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
I searched the Kilkeel parish records in the National Library in Dublin and unfortunately, it looks like James and Sarah didn't live in that parish before they moved to Kilbroney (Milltown). There was a James McDermott having children in that timeframe but his wife was called Mary Sloan.
As you said, they had 3 children in Kilbroney - Sarah b. 1851, Elizabeth b. 1857 and Rose Anne in 1860. I could find no other children for this couple in Kilbroney. You may already have this information but I did find what I believe is the burial record for Sara(h) in 1866.
29 April 1866
The record does not give an age but if you look at the online civil death records there is
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Sorry! Hit the wrong button and sent the message prematurely!
I meant to say that Sarah's burial record is :
29 Apr 1866 Sara McDermott, Parks
There is a death for a Sarah McDermott on the online civil death records site which gives her age which ties in with the birth of James and Sarah's daughter b. 1851.
Death: Sarah Mcdermot, age 15, 1866 Kilkeel Registration District Volume 6 Page 483
There is also what appears to be the death of her sister Rose Anne (for some reason the priests in Kilbroney parish did not list the burial records of young children)
Death: Rose Anne Mcdermot , age 6, 1866 Kilkeel Registration District Volume 6 Page 483
Rostrevor/Kilbroney is located in Kilkeel registration district.
Parks is a small area just outside Rostrevor on the road to Hilltown located in Kilbroney townland. Newtown (I wrote Milltown by mistake in my previous posting) is just over the way from Parks, so they may have moved there some time after Sarah and Rose Anne's death. You can order these certs from www.groireland.ie - it is cheaper to order the photocopy rather than the actual cert.
There is also a burial record for an Elizabeth McDermott :
9 Jan 1877 Elizabeth McDermot, Newtown, aged 61.
Unfortunately I cannot find her death on the online death records, but I believe not all deaths are up on that website https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRPK-24Q You would be able to order the cert from the GRO in Belfast if you visit there in May.
This Elizabeth could be James' sister going by her age.
Sorry that I could not be of any real help. Kilbroney is my native parish and I am very familiar with these records and the Morrison surname is not a common one in that area. It is probable that they moved from another county to Rostrevor in search of work, so don't discount Dungannon, Co Tyrone. There is a Roman Catholic parish called Dungannon in the diocese of Armagh. Their records start early (1826) and you would be able to access them at PRONI.
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Deirdre,
You have been more than helpful. You've given me the name of the other McDermott child. Sarah! :)
Rosemary Joan had sent me copies of Elizabeths & Rose Ann's birth and of another child McDermot No Name or sex baptised in 1851 (Roots Ireland - page torn & faded) How sad to have lost both Sarah & Rose Ann in the same year.
I have found a marriage of a James McDermot to Sarah Morrison in Dungannon, Tyrone in June 1835. For this to be them, Sarah would have had to been 17 for her to be still childbearing in 1860.
I appreciate the time you have taken to check out the Kilkeel records for me.
Thank you for the info,
Theresa
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I have found a marriage of a James McDermot to Sarah Morrison in Dungannon, Tyrone in June 1835. For this to be them, Sarah would have had to been 17 for her to be still childbearing in 1860.
She could have easily been having children up to age 50 so keep that in mind when trying to figure out Sarah's year of birth.
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I agree with Aghadowey, women were still having children up to the age of 50 - I have seen a span of 20 - 24 years between first and last child born. I would be 100% sure that the marriage you found is your James and Sarah. I can have a look at the Dungannon records for baptisms for this couple if you like.
The baptismal record for Sarah is very hard to read - the names of the children on that particular page are cut off on the microfilm but I could see 'rah' and presumed that it was Sarah - this was confirmed when I found her burial and death record.
There is a death for an Edward McDermott, Kilkeel district, 1877, aged 61 on the civil death register on Ancestry.com which ties in with the burial record for Elizabeth that I found in Kilbroney parish - not sure if there was a death for both Edward and Elizabeth in that year, or if this is a typo on their part or else the priest wrote Elizabeth down rather than Edward - will do a bit more research on that.
I also found these deaths in the civil death register :
Name: James M'Dermot
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1891
Death Age: 70
Registration district: Kilkeel
Death Country: Ireland
Volume: 1
Page: 489
and
Name: James M'Dermott
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1883
Death Age: 81
Registration district: Kilkeel
Death Country: Ireland
Volume: 1
Page: 503
Either of these could be your James. Might be worth getting the certs.
Kind regards
Deirdre
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Hi Deirdre & Aghadowey,
What martyrs our female ancestors were! We would never dream of having a child at the age of 45 - 50!!
Deirdre, it would be great if you could look up the baptisms for any more children... thank you.
(The marriage of James & Sarah's gave very little detail... just the witness' and the denomination - RC. No priest or father's names!!)
Just wondering if the death records you found for Sarah & Rose Anne give details like the name of the parents?
The 2nd James could well be my ancestor !
Thank you again for all your help,
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
I will have a look for you next week when I go to the National Library in Dublin.
As regards the death information on Sarah and Rose Anne that I posted, that was taken from the civil death register (as are the 2 James McDermotts I also gave you) - you would have to order the certs to find out more information (I gave you the link on how to order them in a previous posting). Irish death certs only give the name of the deceased, age, gender, marital status, where they died, what of, informant at death (usually a parent when a child is deceased). Getting the cert should give you either James or Sarah as informant and it will also tell you where they lived at the time of death. Of course, you already have that from Sarah's burial record (Parks). I gave you all the information that was written on her burial record.
It was only after civil registration began in Ireland (1845 for Protestant marriages only) and 1864 for births, marriages and deaths for all religions that you would get the father's name on the marriage cert. Any Catholic marriage records I have seen in the early to mid 1800s did not give parents' names - some priests did give names of parents but that was usually in the 1860s onwards and was quite rare. Most priests also did not write their name against a particular record - some did, but it was usually just an initial.
I would agree with you that the 2nd death record is most likely your James but do not totally dismiss the first one if the 2nd one turns out not to be your James. It is possible that the informant at death did not know the exact age of the deceased and just guessed, especially if the person was elderly. James could have looked younger than he was.
If you have time on your trip to Ireland, I would recommend that you visit Rostrevor - it is really a lovely area, on the shores of Carlingford Lough with the Mourne Mountains behind it and the Cooley Mountains in front of it. I believe there is a lay person who looks after the records so it might be worth your while contacting her to see if you can make an appointment to view them - you can access them from the microfilm in PRONI but only up to 1880 and you might find more burial records for this family after 1880 in the originals.
The contact details for the parish are :
Kilbroney Parish
44 Church Street
Rostrevor
Co Down BT34 3BB
Office: 00 44 28 41739495
kilbroneyparish[at]hotmail.co.uk
If you phone them once you are in Northern Ireland, just dial 417 39495
Deirdre
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Hi Deirdre,
We will be staying in Rostrevor for the 5 days we're in County Down!
Will certainly contact the Catholic Parish there. Will also order the death certificates for Rose anne, Sarah & James X2 then. A bit difficult to order on line ( Australia)
I have been searching for places in Kilbroney where James might have worked as Shovel Finisher / Spade Maker. I found a Spade Manufacturer in Newry. I wonder if this would have been too far to travel?
Thanks again for the offer to look up McDermott births in Dungannon.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
I hope you enjoy Rostrevor - it is a very pretty place.
I am not sure about James travelling to Newry every day, especially on foot - it is about a 10 mile journey if not more. I would have thought that they would live in Newry if he worked there. There was a mill in Forestbrook which is very close Newtown (if not part of it) and was owned by the Carvill family of Newry who also manufactured shovels and it is possible that he worked there. I will have another look for that mill / factory and send you the details. He could also have been working for himself and using a blacksmith's smithy to make or repair shovels. Rostrevor was and still is a small village where they would not have been any major industry - you would have had to go to Newry for that.
With regard to ordering the death certs - if you are in Dublin during your stay, I would highly recommend that you take an hour out and visit the Research Facility’s Reading Room of the GRO in Dublin. Here is the link : http://www.groireland.ie/research.htm You will get your 'certs' more or less immediately. You need the Name, Year (quarter if necessary), District (Kilkeel), Volume and Page numbers (which are supplied on the posting I sent you). What you will get is a photocopy of the actual registration entry and is much cheaper than ordering a cert (about 4 euro). All the information will be exactly the same as on the cert. The staff are very helpful.
I have found what I believe are 2 sisters of Mary Jane who married in Rostrevor in 1865 and 1877. I will post all that I found on them later today.
Regards
Deirdre
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Hi Theresa
I believe I have found 2 sisters for Mary Jane McDermott King from a combination of the websites AncestryIreland, Emerald Ancestors and Family Search.
Margaret McDermott (father James) married Patrick Galbraith (father Robert) in Rostrevor on 8 Sep 1865. Going by their sons’ occupations, it is possible that Patrick was a tinsmith. They had 12 children :
1. Robert, b 26 Jun 1866 in Co Down. Robert was a labourer and he married Catherine Savage (father James) in Downpatrick on 4 Feb 1906. They are living in Killough in 1911 (no children).
2. James b. 22 Oct 1867 in Co Down (possibly Kilkeel – will check that). James was a tinsmith and he married Margaret Savage (father James) on 12 Jan 1899 in Belfast. Margaret and Catherine could be sisters but you would have to get the marriage certs to find that out. They were living in Belfast in 1901 but Downpatrick in 1911. They had at least 3 children : James, Thomas and Robert. There is a Mary Jane living with them in 1901 but she may not be James’ daughter.
3. Thomas b. 26 Apr 1869 in Co Down (possibly Kilkeel). Thomas was a tinsmith and he married Sarah Kemp on 1 Dec 1898 in Newtownards, Co Down. They had 5 children : Maggie, Thomas, John, Patrick and Catherine.
4. Margaret b. 29 Jul 1870 in Garvagh, Co. Londonderry.
5. Agnes, b. 03 Apr 1873 in Bothwell, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
6. William b. 27 Apr 1875 in Co. Down. William was a tinsmith and he married a Rose (don’t have their marriage). They lived in West Belfast and had at least 12 children, 5 of whom were living in 1911 : Patrick, Agnes, William, Roseann, Mary Ellen.
7. Patrick b. 16 Feb 1877 in Armagh. Patrick was a tinsmith and he was single up to 1911. He does not appear to know where he was born as different places are given in the censes, but as this family travelled a lot and didn’t stay for very long in the one place, that is no surprise!
8. Sarah b. 24 Jan 1879 in Co Down.
9. Joseph b. 27 Oct 1880 in Ballycastle, Co Antrim.
10. John b. 1882
11. Jane b. 1884. Jane married Hugh O’Hanlon (tinsmith) in Downpatrick on 10 Oct 1904. Does not appear to have had any children.
12. Francis b. 1886
Catherine McDermott (father James) married Charles McKay (father Edward) in Rostrevor on 7 Jul 1877. I believe Charles was a sailor according to this website where the person appears to have seen the birth cert http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fremac/ireland/pafg190.htm If you click on the Notes beside Edward John’s birth you will see that her mother Sarah McDermott registered the birth.
Catherine and Charles McKay had at least 3 children (born in Newtown, Rostrevor) : James b. 5 May 1878 and Edward John b. 4 Nov 1879 and Sarah Jane b. 1892. I cannot find this family anywhere in the 1901 or 1911 census.
Regards
Deirdre
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With regard to William Galbraith, (son of Margaret McDermott Galbraith), he married Rose Boyd in Belfast on 16 Dec 1894.
Joseph Galbraith (b. 1880) states that he is married in 1911 (he is living in Downpatrick) with 2 children but I cannot find the marriage nor his children. Cannot find him in 1901 either.
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Joseph Galbraith (b. 1880) states that he is married in 1911 (he is living in Downpatrick) with 2 children but I cannot find the marriage nor his children. Cannot find him in 1901 either.
Joseph is listed twice in 1911 census- here-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Downpatrick/Mary_Street/237442
and also in brother's household but crossed out on form-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Downpatrick/John_Street/237364
Is this not Joseph in 1901 in mother Margaret's household? also a Hugh not mentioned on your list-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Downpatrick_Urban/The_Gullion/1228356
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Many thanks Deirdre,
I can't believe how much information you have collected on the McDermotts in such a short space of time! Have you had any respite at all?
The number of siblings for Mary Jane's is growing! Fancy finding Catherine's marriage to Charles McKay, complete with notes confirming Sarah as her mother. ;D
I did know of Margaret's marriage to Patrick Galbraith....only because Mary Jane McDermott was one of the witnesses.I thought perhaps they were cousins!
Through the week Rosemary Joan sent me details of Margaret's birth in Newry 1848. Ellen Morrison was given as the mother and Ellen Cambell as a witness. Rosemary thought that perhaps the priest had made a mistake & had skipped a line!. The other wittness was Patrick McDermott.!
It's amazing that you have found all the children (& some grandchildren) .... especially the one born in Scotland! If only Mary Jane's wasn't so elusive!
She would not have been in either of the census, as she & Charles sailed for Australia on the Flying Cloud in 1870 - the year of their marriage.
My grandfather Patrick was born in 1873 & the birth certificate gave Mary Jane's age as 26 & her place of birth as Rostrevor . Charles was the informant.
Deirdre, I do appreciate all your help,
Theresa.
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Yes, I saw that he was listed twice - he must have been visiting his brother at the time that the census page was being filled out and then was stricken off when it was discovered that he didn't live there. It also looks like he may not have been married as he claims that he was married c. 1899 and he clearly wasn't as you found him in 1901, single. I thought that I had gone through every connotation of Galbraith in 1901 but obviously didn't! Well done on finding Margaret and her family. Looks like Hugh is the youngest child - he didn't show up on AncestryIreland but that doesn't mean anything as they don't have all the births online. There may have been more children after Hugh who didn't survive. As for Margaret being 45 - that would have made her 9 when she married!!! They sure knew how to make themselves younger as they got older in those days!
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Hi Theresa
Hopefully I will find more siblings for Mary Jane in Dungannon - but it is possible that they were born in places scattered throughout the North on their journey from Dungannon to Rostrevor. If Margaret was born in Newry, it is possible that James was working for the Carvills in Newry and then moved to Newtown to work for them in Forestbrook(where the Carvills owned a spade mill, alabaster and cement works). Forestbrook is part of Newtown townland.
With regard to Sarah Morrison being named as Ellen in the Newry parish records, that kind of clerical error was very common in those days - the priests sometimes mixed up the names of the godparents with the parents, especially the mother and godmother and sometimes they just got the name down wrong. I have seen a lot of this in the Newry, Clonallon and Kilbroney records.
Now that Aghadowey has found Margaret and her younger children in 1901, I believe this might be her son John in 1911 (will see if I can confirm this with a marriage record) :
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Downpatrick/Inish_Street/237324/
and this is probably Hugh :
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Downpatrick/John_Street/237391/
regards
Deirdre
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Hi Theresa
I found a marriage for a John Galbraith and Mary Stranney in Downpatrick (RC) church on 17 Oct 1907 (father Patrick) and a marriage for a Hugh Galbraith in Downpatrick (RC) church on 7 March 1916 (father Patrick), so these looks like the marriages of Patrick and Margaret's sons.
I found 2 more children (online) for John and Mary Stranney Galbraith, born in Co. Antrim : Patrick James and Jane.
The only death I could find online for a Margaret Galbraith is this one :
Name: Margaret Galbraith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1905
Death Age: 46
Registration district: Downpatrick
Volume: 1
Page: 411
I know the age is 10 years off but, given the age she gave herself in 1901, it could well be her!
Regards
Deirdre
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Deirdre, have just found Catherine's baptism in Kilbroney in 1854. The father is James and the mother this time is Jane Morrison!. The same priest ( Rev B Mooney) baptised Rose Anne, Sarah & Elizabeth, but the denomination is given as Church of Ireland. Maybe the Rev had too much alter wine.!
Thank goodness the 1901 - 1911 weren't destroyed and thank you Aghadowey for finding Margaret' McDermott's hiding place!
Last month when I first wrote into Roots Chat, there wasn't a McDermott relative to be found. Now there villIages full of them!!
Think I will be longer than an hour at the GRO Research Centre in Dublin!
Regards
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
I assume you found Catherine's baptism on AncestryIreland (UHF), if that is the case, then putting Church of Ireland down as their religion is a typo on the transcriber's part. I have often put down the tippling of alter wine as the reason for some of the priests' many errors, but I think Fr. Mooney can be excused this one :)
Regards
Deirdre
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Hi Theresa
Had a look at the Dungannon RC parish records and found the following baptisms :
13 Nov 1836 Patrick, son of James McDermott and Sarah Morrison. Sponsors : Patrick Morrison and Catherine McKeever(?)
27 Feb 1838 James, son of James McDermot and Sarah Hillen (sic). Sponsor : Allice Hillen
21 April 1839, John, son of John (sic) McDermot and Sara Morison. Sponsors : Hugh and Anne Britain(?)
26 May 1842, Jno (John), son of James McDermot and Sara Morison. Sponsors : Michl and Mary/Margt(?) Millar
The records are in poor condition and hard to read, hence the (?) so I might go back and have another look at them in a few weeks' time. I could not see any sign of Mary Jane. She could have been baptised in Dungannon, but the priest didn't record the baptism - happened a lot unfortunately.
As you can see from the records above, the priest wasn't too particular about getting the names right!!!
I also found this baptism :
10 Jun 1840 Saran Anne Conlan, daughter of Charles Conlan and Anne Hillen. Sponsor : Sara McDermot
The Sara McDermot could be Sara Morrison McDermott as there weren't too many McDermotts mentioned in these records.
There were children recorded for a Patrick Morrison (sponsor to Patrick McDermott) and he is probably Sarah's brother. I didn't take a note of them, as I was running out of time, but if you would like me to, I can do that in the near future.
Kind regards
Deirdre
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Hello Deirdre,
If only the priests had realised how important it was getting the details right. It would certainly save the family history buffs the headaches!
I'm not too sure what ( sic) means in 21 April 1839, John, son of John (sic) McDermot and Sara Morison. Sponsors : Hugh and Anne Britain(?)
but am assuming that Sarah Morrison would not have been married to both James & John. Are you thinking that the first John died ?
Maybe you are right about Mary Jane's baptism not being recorded. or Maybe she really was born in County Down.The same area in Newry, Newry & Mourne where Margaret was born. I haven't given up on that.
Thank you for your perseverance with this. You have has saved us so much time!
Happy Easter :-)
Theresa
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Hi Theresa
Sic is Latin for ‘So’ or ‘Thus’. It is used to denote an error or mistake found in an original text and I used it against John's name as I feel that, once again, the priest made an error in the record - John's name should have been James. I find a lot of these mistakes in the parish records, it may be that the priest made the entry some time after the event, didn't know the people well and got the names mixed up. There were very few McDermotts found in the Dungannon records and no other couples with the surnames McDermott and Morrison, so even though the christian name John and the surname Hillen was used instead of the correct ones, I believe that all the baptisms I listed in my posting are for the children of James McDermott and Sarah Morrison.
As most couples in those days had a child every 2 to 3 years, there is a good chance that they had at least 2 children between the 2nd John and Margaret born in Newry, Mary Jane being one of them. I will have a look at the Newry records in the week after Easter to see if Ancestry Ireland missed Mary Jane's baptism.
Hope you have a good Easter.
Regards
Deirdre
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Thanks Deirdre,
I hope you're not travelling too far to do all this research.
I thought that Patrick & John would be ours, but wasn't sure about James. Hard to believe that Morrison could be made into Hillman... sic all right!
In finding these baptisms you've also found some of Sarah's family, which is a bonus!.
Now, how good would it be if Mary Jane showed up on the records in Newry!
Cheers
Theresa.
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PS Now I've done the same! ::)
I meant to type Hillen not Hillman.
Theresa.
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Hi Theresa
I went back to the Dungannon records just to double check if I had missed Mary Jane's baptism, but I still couldn't find any baptism after 1842. The microfilm is hard to read, so it might be worth your while having a look at it when you get to PRONI - 2 heads are better than one! I also had another look at the 1839 baptism and I now believe that the child baptised was James (not John) and the father's name was also James. The priest who recorded the baptism had very bad handwriting and what initially looked like Jno, I now believe is Jms.
I then looked at the Newry parish records and could find no other baptism other than Margaret's. So either Mary Jane was baptised in either Dungannon or Newry and is missing from the register or else they lived elsewhere before moving to Newry.
If I find anything more on your McDermotts, I will let you know.
Enjoy your trip to Northern Ireland.
Regards
Deirdre
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Hi Deirdre,
Thank you for checking out the Newry records also for taking a second look at Dungannon.The first James, born in 1838 must have died. And what a shame there was no Mary Jane!
I'm sure you've done a very thorough job of looking through these records, but I can have another look whilst I am there.I have taken note of all the info you have found for me. I have an email ready to sent to the Catholic Church in Church St, Rostrevor.
Only two weeks to go before holidays!
Thank you again,
Theresa