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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: BonnieDownUnder on Sunday 10 February 13 18:49 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I think that my William Tabb bc1812 Merther was married twice but would appreciate if someone can confirm I am on the right track, thanks.
C1841 piece 147. book 16, folio 7 page 6 shows a William Tabb 27, Elizabeth 30 and presumably their children Elizabeth 4 and William 1.
I am unable to find a William with a wife Elizabeth and above children on C1851 and so far best match is with a wife Maria, piece 1901 folio 114 page 5 which shows William Tabb 39, Maria 35, and children Elizabeth 14, William 9 and James 5 residing at Truro.
FreeBDM shows an Elizabeth Tabb died Q3/1849 9/241 at Truro and that a William Tabb married a Anna Maria Keast Q1/1851 9/359 at Truro.
I am tracing William junior born Q4/1839 9/327 Truro who died Sydney 1880 however his death certificate only shows father's name of William. Obviously I should purchase his birth certificate to see parents names but before doing so, would like another option to confirm that I haven't missed something with my search.
Thanks.
PS William junior married a Isabella Rowe in 1858 and they, along with daughter Bessie, immigrated to Australia in 1879; sadly he died a year later.
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Hiya yes i think he married twice have gone over the censuses and came up with what you did .This looks like the burial Elizabeth Tabb 13th July 1849 age 40 in Kenwyn Residence St Clements.The areas fit with census details.But i would still send for birth cert to be certain.
Good Luck Welsh Lady
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Heres something to keep on file possible baptism of William senior
Baptism in Probus(right area)
24th July 1814
William Tabb
Father-William (occ-Lab)
Mother-Mary
Address-High Lane in Probus
Genuki Cornwall good if you not sure of areas
welsh Lady
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Hi Welsh Lady
Many thanks your messages. My geography of Cornwall, infact most of the UK, is not very good so thanks for the tip.
Now looking for William's marriage to Elizabeth but not having much success on family search. Any suggestions?
Thanks again Bonnie
PS Did find an article in the Royal Cornwall Gazette about William assaulting Maria in 1859 though it looks like they 'kissed and made up' as they were still together until she passed away in 1887!!
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A possible first marriage -- Kea is also in the right-ish area (google maps is pretty good for finding all the little place names):
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=809856
William Tabb + Elizabeth Carne, 11 June 1837, witnesses were Richard Carne Sr and Jr.
... There is a baptism in 1843 in Kenwyn for Julian Carne Tabb who would surely be a child of theirs, but I can't find any later record for that name: burial, marriage or death. Could wel be a child who died in infancy. There was also a Catherine daughter of William and Elizabeth baptised in St Clement, which is where William and Maria are living in 1851.
This is the link to the Elizabeth Tabb burial Welsh Lady refers to:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1493847
I expect this is Maria Keast's baptism, given William's place of birth:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=2813911
Merther, 19 March 1820, daughter of Grace Keast, single woman
But the Cornwall OPC site isn't coming up with anything else useful.
An online parish clerk might be able to help you with parish records that have not been transcribed yet. William Jr was born in Kea, according to the 1851 census:
http://www.cornwall-opc.org/Par_new/h_k/kea.php
I agree with you both that you have the right people in 41 and 51.
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Hi JaneyCanuck ... Many thanks for all the info and leads, much appreciated. Sorting through it all plus glad to know that that I was on the right track as to whom William jnr mother was so will go ahead and purchase his birth certificate
Bonnie
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Just a note that the GRO index per FreeBMD shows the Julian Carne Tabb baptism I referred to as Juliana Carne Tabb (after some dithering with name corrections), 1842 Truro, but still no later reference to be found.
Oh, no, interesting: in 1851, Anc'y shows Julianna no surname (I searched just for jul* in Cornwall born 1841-43), born c1842 Kenwyn, living with Richard and Sarah Carne (mistranscribed Corne), obviously Juliana's grandparents, in Kenwyn. No surname is shown on the original census image. There is also a Robert Carne next door, who would be a son of that couple.
This would be consistent with her mother being deceased, so I think the William Tabb + Elizabeth Carne marriage is very likely correct and Julianna is a sister of your William. So if William Jr's birth cert confirms that mother, this info should help. ;)
And in 1861 she is transcribed as Julian Tabb, born c1842 Kenwyn Cornwall, in East Stonehouse, Devon. (Moving over to the Plymouth side was very common in that era.)
(Just for ruling out: in 1871 she is not, as I was first going to say she might be, Julianna Woodley, married to Thomas with two children, born c1844 Kenwyn, in Kenwyn in 1871. That marriage was Thomas Woodley + Julia A Oates 1866 Truro, Juliana Oates being in the 1861 census.)
There is also a Jane Tabb with Juliana in East Stonehouse in 1861, aged 24, born Kenwyn Cornwall.
Richard Carne married Sarah Dinnis in Kea 1803.
Richard and Sally Carne had a daughter Juliana Carne in Kea 1807. That is the only baptism to Richard and Sarah/Sally Carne showing in the database. She would be the recent source of the name of Julianna Tabb.
Also note that the Catherine Tabb I referred to died at age 4 months in St Clement in 1844:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=977842
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1739920
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Hi JaneyCanuck ... thanks once again for all the information, you have certainly have gone out of your way and it is most appreciated.
Bonnie
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You're quite welcome; love finding the pieces of the puzzle. ;)
You just have to come back with the birth cert info when you have it so we know whether this was all on the right track or not! ;D
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Hi J, I am in the process of tracking down all the leads and info you gave me to add to the family tree. Found that C1851 Juliane with her grandparents Richard and Sarah and made the appropriate updates incase anyone else looking for the family on A****y
Will let you know when I receive William Tabb junior's birth certificate though I am pretty certain you have 'nailed it'!!
Thanks once again
Bonnie
PS Once I have this sorted, the next to follow up is William's wife, Isabella Rowe b1832 Truro d1897
Sydney, married 1858 Truro
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I think Isabella may have mislaid a couple of years when she married William Tabb who was younger than her.
1841 Carclew St, Kenwyn, Truro HO107/147/14 folio 46 pg 18
William Rowe 43 (?) painter (?)
Sarah 46
William 13
Isabella 11
Emily 9
all born in county except Sarah
1851 she's 21, a staymaker and visiting HO107/1910 folio 295 pg 28
her family
Lemon Row, Kenwyn HO107/1910 folio 317 pg 32
William Rowe head mar 53 coal porter b. Truro
Sarah wife 56 b. Devon, Exeter
Isabella Coe visitor 2 b. Cornwall, St Margaret
Emily Rowe dau 18 dressmaker b. Truro
/
William Rowe head mar 24 coach maker b. Truro
Susan wife 24 b. St Columb
William son 1 b. Truro
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You'll find William and Sarah's marriage if you search here:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/marriages/
The Cornwall OPC site is great fun, and we owe a lot to the OPCs and transcribers. (And I don't just say that because I have belatedly become a transcriber. ;) )
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What a nice surprise to receive info already on Isabella Rowe and family ...
Hi Osprey: Many thanks for census leads. Strange that William Rowe went from being a 'Painter' (presume this to be a 'house painter' not a 'Painter of Pictures'!) to a 'Coal Porter' ??? His wife Sarah is shown as a 'widow' when the C1861 taken and found her living with a daughter and son in law, same for C1871 then her death 1878 with burial 29 Dec.
Hi J: Thanks once again, you are certainly keeping me busy building the family tree :) Your right, the Cornwall OPC is an interesting site and very easy to navigate. Thanks to you and all the other volunteers giving time to do translates ... great work.
Sarah Honey (nice name) marrying William Rowe 24 Dec 1826. Think I may have found William's baptismal, 24 Sep 1797 at Truro with father George and mother Jenefer and if I have the right connection, their marriage too; George Rowe ,20 Oct 1789 St. Columb Major, to Jennipher/Jenifer Nicholls
As mentioned above, Sarah became a widow in between C1851-61 censuses but trolling the OPC Burial records, I can't seem to find a match when William passed away, he would have been around 54-64 yrs of age.
I haven't been able to locate a baptismal record for Isabella (nor her siblings) too or a church record of the marriage between her and William Tabb so presume that these have yet to be translated.
Thanks, Bonnie
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There's a "coverage" section at the OPC site that might help.
I've just recently transcribed some post-1850 burials for a particular parish and am plugging away at more of them, moving on past 1860 ...
But generally you'll find that post-1837 records are not as fleshed out there yet, I think.
Don't forget you can check with the specific online parish clerk for a parish, to see whether records are available that haven't been transcribed. (They aren't all; records for my parish of interest c1820 apparently weren't microfilmed for example, and have to be got from the records office, or something. I'm in Canada so bits of it are still mysterious to me.)
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Hi J ... Yes, checked the coverage and dates I am looking for, fall outside of what's been transcribed.
I am rather amazed that your in Canada (should of figured that with Canuck ;) ) and your undertaking Cornwall transcriptions; presume you have ancestry from that area ?
Thanks once again, your invaluable assistance has my family tree rapidly sprouting lots more branches, twigs and leaves. Bonnie
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Indeed I do -- although we never knew it. Much toiling and travailing on my part over about a year, five or six years ago, revealed my mum's father's father to be a Cornwall boy (and found me his real name), and his mother's side, at least, to be rooted there back to the beginning of known records and beyond - with a parish clerk along the way! (And the OPC people are one reason I've been able to find so much, especially a wonderful man in the western US, recently deceased, who adopted the little parish of St Cleer.) My grx2 grfather's father ... well, born in Devon to a woman I can pretty certainly identify as being from Cornwall ... and a James Hill. If you happen to run into a James Hill born sometime in the late-ish 1700s in either Cornwall or Devon ... haha, well, try not to trip on them, as the landscape is literally littered with 'em and I pretty much despair of ever identifying mine. ;)
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Hi J ... well, you give me hope, on many branches of my family tree, with researching back ... way way back.
Can I call on your expertise one more time ;D, would appreciate your thoughts on William Tabb (father of William John junior) who gave his birth place as Merther, as being his baptismal record OPC #1289952, 24 Jul 1814 that 'Welsh Lady' found, with father William, mother Mary. This doesn't align with the age of death in 1890, being 79 years, however we know that this info can be way out. The census records C1851-1881 virtually all line up if he was born 1812 except C1861 = b1814
Found that a William Tabb (widow) married a Mary Teague 26 Sep 1813 in the district of Merther.
Interestingly, I also found a John Keast Tabb (Keast was, if she hadn't been previously married, maiden name of William's second wife, Anna Maria) who died aged 70 years, 1889 in the district of Merther with baptism 30 May 1819, father James mother Mary same district. A James Tabb married Mary Keast 27 Dec 1810.
Regards Bonnie
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do you have a copy of the 1851 marriage cert to confirm father's name and occupation?
I've checked the register for Merther and there are 2 Tabb couples baptising children there at the time, David & Elizabeth and James & Mary, but the only William was baptised 22/6/1817 to David & Elizabeth. The baptism in Probus is a possible as it's the neighbouring parish - abode is noted as High Lane, Probus.
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Hi Osprey ... No, I haven't the William Tabb and Anna Maria Keast marriage, 1851, certificate as I have just found in the last couple of days that he was married twice, Anna being his second wife. It looks like I am going to have to purchase this to see what his father's name and occupation was.
Thanks for your response and info, much appreciated.
Bonnie
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Hiya, sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I was off being banned for a day for being unfriendly, and then I still couldn't get back in ...
I was just going to say, about William's various ages, to remember that he might not have been baptised at birth, so an 1814 baptism and an 1812ish birth are still possible. Just plain negligence in age reporting is always a good option too. ;)
The marriage certificate should help you along a fair bit.
Just to note that when you search for Tabb baptisms in Merther and nearby parishes, there is a series in St Clement:
Jane 1820
Mary Anne Grigg 1822
Eliza 1825
and John 1830 St Enoder
(I include John from checking the 1841 census)
That William and Mary aged 65 and 50 are with children Eliza 15 and John 10 in St Enoder in 1841 but seem to be deceased by 1851.
Given the age difference ... there's an Elizabeth Tabb baptism in 1808 in Merther with parents William and Ann ... could Mary have been a second wife?
Just idle poking around ...
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Hi J ...gosh, getting reported ??? some people do get a bit precious. Heck, I have been given in the last couple a days a couple of good serves myself ... whats the point of throwing a tantrum and running off and telling the Headmaster ... of pleaseeeeeeeee ...
... so, thanks again for the input which I have added to the growing pile of terrific information. Obviously I need to get the marriage certificate but I blew my budget big time last year on BDMs and this purchase has just got to wait a while, unfortunately.
Will let you know (but don't hold your breathe) when I get the certificate.
Stay happy ... ;D Bonnie
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I hope you're getting certs from the cheapest source
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Don't buy them from family history sites, they charge extortionate amounts.
;)
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Hi Osprey ... thanks, yes I always buy thru the GRO and a bit of a bonus for us 'down under' is that the exchange rate is quite good however I do need to watch the pennies at present. Bonnie
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glad you weren't wasting money getting them from the commercial sites. I hate that some people get lured in by their adverts and end up paying so much more than they need to.
;)
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Hi Osprey, I wonder why the GRO doesn't have an online service that you can download BDM's ? or that they could scan and email them. I have had certificates go astray, birth certificates printed on death certificates and it takes weeks and weeks for them to arrive 'down under'. It would be great if I had a reliable personal contact in the UK where the certificates could go to and they could scan it for me then email, plus post original later. This is something I am working on at present.
Interestingly, it isn't available for us in the state of New South Wales, but it is in the state of Victoria.
I use a transcription agency when I want BDM's in NSW, far cheaper than going direct to the official site BUT I have found that there have been errors in transcribing. Bonnie
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because it's too expensive to scan the millions of certs involved
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,610367.msg4596510.html#msg4596510
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,601828.msg4523953.html#msg4523953
What you get from the GRO/IPS isn't the original. The original certs are held by the local registrars who used to make copies and send them off quarterly to the GRO.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403508.msg3667405.html#msg3667405
You can buy from the local registrar, but it can cost more, they charge postage or want an sae, and sometimes don't have the facility to take credit cards. The public don't have access to the registers. Considering you don't pay extra for postage from the IPS wherever you are, it's a pretty good deal.
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Hi Osprey ... well I certainly see your point that there would be millions and ... of BDM's held by the GRO ... kinda dumb of me to not think of that angle before.
... and your right, the cost is not that expensive, in fact it is cheaper to get a BDM from the GRO than to buy the equivalent from the NSW BDM .... Bonnie
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Hi,
I'm looking at this same family and trying to confirm whether William Tabb bapt 1814 was the son of William Tabb and Mary Teague. Did you order the marriage cert for William and Anna Maria Keast in 1851 and if so did it confirm Willam's parents?
Thanks,
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Hi Aldivalloch,
No I didn't purchase the marriage certificate for William Tabb and Anna Maria Keast 1851, unfortunately my budget buying certs for this family tree ran out and other family members weren't interested in paying even though they wanted to know about the ancestors ...
Bonnie
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Hi Bonnie,
I'm researching the William Tabb and Mary Teague family at the moment and the only child unaccounted for is William bapt in Probus 24 Jul 1814. I thought he may have married Elizabeth Carne on 11 Jun 1837 in Kea. Elizabeth Carne was bapt 17 Nov 1811 in Kea, daughter of Richard Carne and Sarah (Sally) Dennis. Elizabeth's other siblings were Robert b.1804 in Feock, Juliana b.1807 in Kea, and Richard b. 1815 in Kenwyn.
I believe Sarah Dennis was baptised 31 May 1778 in Feock the daughter of Samuel Dennis and Catherine ?
Robert Carne married Mary Ann Andrew in Kenwyn on 20 Apr 1833 and had the following children born in Kenwyn - William Henry 1833; Robert 1835; John 1837; and Eliza Jane 1839.
Not sure what happened to Juliana but she probably died young.
Richard Carne married Frances Drew in Truro on 20 Aug 1837 and had the following children in Truro - Samuel b. 1841 and Frederick b.1844.
Frances died in St. Clements aged 33 and was buried on 14 Jan 1845 and Frederick died in St. Clements aged 5 months and was buried 16 Sep 1844.
Richard may have remarried an Elizabeth ? sometime between 1845 and 1851 as she is listed in the 1851 Census below.
In 1841 Census in Treyen, Kenwyn - William aged 27 (1814); Elizabeth aged 30 (1811); Elizabeth aged 4 (1837); and William aged 1 (1840).
In 1841 Census in Treyen - Robert Carne aged 37 (1804); Mary aged 32 (1809); William aged 8 (1833); Robert aged 6 (1835); John aged 4 (1837; and Eliza aged 2 (1839).
In the 1841 in Carclew Street, Kenwyn - Richard Carne aged 25 (1816); Frances aged 28 (1813); and Samuel aged ) (1841).
In the 1841 Census in Penweathers, Kea - Richard Carne aged 65 (1776), Sarah aged 65 (1776) and Elizabeth Tab aged 3 (1838). How can Elizabeth be in two different places at the same time?
I have these children for a William and Elizabeth Tabb as follows but not confirmed -
Elizabeth b. 1837 in Kea; William b. 1840 in Kea; Juliana Carne b. 1842 in Kenwyn; Catherine b. 1844 and d.1844 in St. Clement; and James b. 1846.
Elizabeth died in St. Clements aged 40 (1809) and buried 13 Jul 1849 in Kenwyn.
In 1851 Census in Treyen, Kenwyn - Richard Carne aged 80 (1771), Sarah Carne 73 (1778) and Juliana Tabb aged 9 (1842).
In the 1851 Census in Treyen, Kenwyn - Robert Carne aged 48 (1803); Mary Ann aged 43 (1801); William Henry aged 18 (1833); Robert aged 16 (1835); John aged 14 (1837); and Eliza Jane aged 12 (1839).
In the 1851 Census in Highertown, Kenwyn - Richard Carne aged 36 (1815); Elizabeth aged 46 (1805); and Samuel aged 10 (1841).
In 1851 Census in Bodmin Street, Truro in the Parish of St. Clement - William aged 39 (1812); Maria aged 35 (1816) ; Elizabeth J aged 14 (1837); William J aged 9 (1842) and James J aged 5 (1846).
The age for William does not remain consistent, neither does his birth place of Merther and St. Enoder or occupation of Ag Lab, shoemaker? and gardener.
I found a death record for a William Tabb in 1890 in Truro aged 79 but nothing for Anna Maria Tabb nee Keast...have you found one yet?
I would really like to confirm whether the above William who married Elizabeth Carne was the son of William Tabb (died in Ladock 1849) and Mary Teague (died in Truro 1845) and will keep hunting for some clues.
Cheers,
Jen.
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Hi Jen,
Its been a while since I have worked on this family tree so need to look back on my notes, will send a PM soon.
Like yourself, found a death registration for William Tabb Q1/1890 5c/105 Truro with birth about 1811.
There is also a death registration for a Maria Tabb Q4/1887 5c/101 Truro age 67, bc 1820.
Bonnie