RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ronoc on Saturday 09 February 13 14:06 GMT (UK)
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My father a Murray born in Dublin was the great grandson son of a"Murray" born in Glasgow. My father had no siblings that lived to adulthood neither did his father. So when I starting searching in Scotland I discovered my 2 g.grandfather came from a large family of Murray's who emigrated originally from Co Monaghan Ireland in the 1850's As the records in Scotland are so good I have managed to trace family members rights up to 1960's and 70's.
I feel a bit uneasy adding these living people to my tree - I don't know them and they don't know me. - they would be 2nd and 3rd cousins.
I have never had any Murray relations :( - I have cousins in Ireland from my mother's family whom I know and don't have a problem adding them but I am unsure about adding people I don't personally know who are still living.
I am wondering what is the general rule of thumb ?? ???
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It's more than a rule of thumb,the answer is don't add anyone still living without their permission.
jim
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I would add living people to my tree, but I am the only person who sees it. It is not published anywhere online or given to anyone. Any time I do pass on information I do not include any recent generations.
If you have your tree online, you can just write 'living' rather than mentioning names.
I would not like to be included on anyone's public tree, but I'm sure some people would not mind.
And of course you can try contacting them to ask for permission, and that also applies to the relatives you know - just because you know them don't assume that you can include them on an online tree without their permission. :)
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jim is right -
How nice of you to actually stop and think before adding names. A lot of people would just go ahead without a seconds thought.
If I were you I would keep private notes on this part of your family tree, I think that's what most of us do.
Suey
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thanks for your reply, Jim1 Ruskie & Suey,
I think you guys are right about the permission bit, I personally wouldn't mind being added if I knew who the owner of the tree was and what the connection was.
I won't add and will keep private notes :)
suey - I must have been having a moment - bit like your Motto " the lights are on..........
thank you all for your comments and keeping me on the right track.
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" the lights are on.........."
I've used that motto since day one, it was one of my Mums favourite sayings for anyone, well you know... :D
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P.S. Meant to add, how easy (and a little scary) it is with modern technology to find someone if you want to :-X
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I would add living people to my tree, but I am the only person who sees it. It is not published anywhere online or given to anyone.
Bear in mind that websites are frequently hacked into or suffer other security leaks. Identity theft and stalking are increasing problems so I wouldn't recommend anyone adding living peoples' details to ANY website to help protect them in the future. Just because you select an option to "hide" people's details doesn't mean that hackers won't be able to get to the information.
NEVER count on websites being able to protect any information.
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I agree with the previous comment; the major problem with putting information about living people on a public website is that this attracts people with evil intent. Rather than add them to your tree, maybe you could contact them to tell them of your relationship to them and, as has been suggested, keep their details somewhere which is not published on the internet so that you don't 'lose' them again!
Regards
GS
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Greensleeves and Supermossi thank you for your input :)
you make good points about hacking. It makes you think about the wider implications of online trees... to be honest something I never really thought about.... but I will now :)
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Not wishing to scare you too much ;) but think of it this way:-
What information does your bank ask to identify yourself online or over the phone? Probably 2 or 3 of the following:-
- Account No
- Password
- Address
- Date of Birth
- Place of Birth
- Mothers Maiden Name
If you're putting details of your relatives on a genealogy website you will probably be supplying the last 3 of those. Address can usually be found via Electoral Roll lookups (opting out of it doesn't hide your details from the commercial verison of the roll which can be accessed online). All that a bunch of criminals need to do is get your account No & password, which they can do by phishing scams and the like and, hey presto, they have total access to your relatives accounts! That will be a nice surprise for them ;)
Another nightmare story to think about is that some paedophile rings apparently harvest pictures of children from websites for dubious purposes. Do you really want photos of your nephews/nieces/cousins in the hands of these guys? ???
Companies like to encourage us to put our information on their sites as the more info they have the more marketable they are but what is really in it for us? Of course they will say they will keep the info safe but if people like Gary McKinnon can hack repeatedly into heavily resourced US Military and NASA computers, and the British Government departments have a habit of leaking information, what chance is there that small companies can realistically protect themselves from hacker gangs? Virtually none..
I don't mean to give you nightmares but we really need to weigh up what we are gaining from giving websites this valuable information and what we can lose from it..
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For the very reasons that supermoussi has outlined, I am very cautious and never put details about living people or their parents (even when they have died) in my online family trees. Maybe that prevents me making a few connections but I would rather protect the identities of family members if possible, even if there are other ways to find out these details online. Chrisann
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thank you Supermoussi, your points are very valid and well made - I am suitable scared :) :)
"food for thought" for sure
cheers !
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Hi Chrisann,
I think thats the thing - making connetions - you think you are going to get more infor - but as pointed out here - the downside is to big to be worth the risk... I just felt uneasy because I didn't auctually know these people. But thanks to this board I know better now :) :)
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Is there a way to make people's information private on Ancestry?
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Hi BordersCrafter,
You can have a completely Private tree on Ancestry, and if you want to see any details on it you have to contact to owner.
also ancestry does not show info on " living people " but I think the point made here is if the site is hacked...... well then it's a free for all really :(
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but I think the point made here is if the site is hacked...... well then it's a free for all really :(
Absolutely, but not only is your data vulnerable to hackers trying to find personal data to sell on the black market, it is also vulnerable to hard up staff stealing the data on CD/USB sticks and then selling it too. The last survey I read found that there are as many data thefts made by inside staff as there are by external hackers :-\
Using privacy options on websites only reduces the chance of data theft very slightly..
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There has been quite a lot of talk about privacy & security in the press in the last few days.
Another aspect mentioned is people's rights to privacy. Would you like someone to give your personal details to some commercial organisation without asking for your permission? If not, you will be able to imagine how your relatives will feel about you giving away their info willy nilly. You won't exactly be flavour of the month.
Instead of drawing families closer together online trees have the potential to cause rifts in families..
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This problem had never been an issue for me until about 2 weeks ago I found my (deceased) mother in law's name on a public tree on Ancestry. Looking at the tree, whilst I could find a very distant connection via her maternal side, but this person was adding MIL's paternal information - some of it wrong needless to say.
I contacted the tree owner and asked about the interest in MIL etc and pointed out some of the incorrect and missing information and tried to be helpful, and we exchanged a coupe of private emails, but its now all gone quiet.
I have come to the conclusion that the tree owner is "name collecting" , but I was a bit startled to find MIL on the tree and felt a bit "territorial" about it. "She's MY MIL, nothing to do with you!" Particularly as spouse is only child.
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I suppose why I posted the question originally was because my "tree" is relatively small, not many branches on my dad's side, and I was tempted to add these living people, but I just felt uneasy about adding people who were still living and I didn't know them. they would not even be aware of my existence.
I have seen others trees with some of my family members on them. They are usually trees with about 10,000 people. I did point out - very nicely - to one tree owner where they had gone wrong, even went and bought the correct marr cert for them so they could amend their tree and take ancestors off - they still haven't. ::)
So I agree with you Mavals there are definitely "name collectors" out there. I just ignore these big tree's now...
My tree maybe small but at least I know what is there is correct and I have the doc's to back it up.
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whilst chatting during a game on facebook one day I was discussing family history with a game friend and how scarily easy it is to find info on people and he challenged me to find out what I could about him. He gave me a week but I actually got back to him the next afternoon with:
his full name, date of birth, address and phone number, previous address and company he works for
what school he went to - what school his wife went to
his wifes maiden name / previous married name and date of birth
year they married and year of her previous marriage and grooms name
the names and years of birth of his children
his mother and fathers names years of their births, their marriage and current address, their parents and parents marriages
his siblings names and years of birth and years of marriage, their spouses names and their children
then a rough tree of his mum and dads direct families back to 1841 census
the name of his dog,where he went on holiday that year and the previous year and a few other personal tit bits
i also sent him photos of his kids, wife, dog, mother, brothers, nieces and nephews, a photo of him at a works do, a photo of his house
He was stunned and slightly creeped out but couldn't see how I did it
Thankfully he had a fairly uncommon name for the area he lived so made my life easier
but just from his facebook profile I had his name, town and birthday (and email address)
that he was married to another facebook user so I had her first name. from his profile i could also confirm a fewof the people i found like siblings and children and from her profile which was set to public I had the holiday and pet info - she also had downloaded pictures of things she was selling on ebay so I had her username for that too
the normal BT phone directory gave me his and his parents address and phone number
192.com gave me his previous address
linkedin gave me the company he works for
friends reunited gave me their school info (one of his children listed what school he attends on his fb profile too)
a google of his company gave me the photo he was in at works party and a google of address got screenshot of his house
the other photos i got from facebook profiles
for some of the personal titbits
using Yasni I found a few web results for his wife giving reviews about things they'd bought so I also could tell him
what tv they have, where they bought their wardrobe and what face cream his wife uses.
Knowing his wife was selling something on ebay I was able to find the item and look at the sellers info which listed
everything she had bought and sold .. so I even knew her bra size by the end of it !!!!
SCARY...CREEPY...YES YES YES!!!!! We do need to be careful out there and I would recommend anyone to have a go and see whats out there on them
But despite knowing this I don't mind being added to trees of people I don't actually know. I think we really should ask people before we add them but am guilty of doing it.
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It is creepy what we can find, I agree Baggygenes
Before I retired I was a manager of a Citizens Advice Bureau and money adviser. I am all too well aware of the risks of identity theft etc - but also know that you should get a copy of your credit history every 2 years even if you do not have any suspicions of identity theft, just for peace of mind. I once had my credit card cloned and only found out when trying to but my shopping at the supermarket ( very embarrassing having the card declined etc!) I was extremely lucky because the criminal trying to use it went for a large purchase first and it was stopped immediately. It has made me cautious ever since and I try to use only one specific card for internet purchases too.
I recently made all my Ancestry trees private, but as you say, it is very easy to find information on line. These days I don't use my mothers maiden name as a security question either.
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Baggygenes - scary indeed... what are you trying to do to me :)
I do have an account on facebook - only set it up to keep an eye on my kids. I have no info about myself on it and no pics. It's just not my cup of tea. My children on the otherhand - well - I am trying to teach them what not to put on their account rather then what to put on it :)
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If you think too much about it I think we'd all get a bit paranoid but sometimes I wonder where common sense went. I wouldn't stand in the street announcing I've just bought an expensive new tv or I'm going to be away for the next few weeks and my house will be unoccupied so why do it online for potentially the whole world to see? and I'm guilty of doing it!
The trouble is it is so easy to give info without even realising it or the possible consequences. Just by posting a pic of your child/grandchild in their school uniform and giving their name could put them in danger but most of us don't give it a second thought .. but then I worry if we consider everything too much what a suspicious nasty world we will live in
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I suppose most of us don't think to much about it because we don't have evil intent in mind.
as for going on hols - that is one I insist the kids don't announce on Facebook
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Great conversation here!
I agree with baggygenes and what you can find out about people if your try, and not very difficult at that!
I have been accused of having a strange way of thinking and a comment I loved is "you don't think in straight lines"; I have met many a challenge!
Two points:
1 - I put every relative I can prove a connection to, living and dead, in my tree; the tree is private and the living are not shown until marked deceased. It has given me links to relatives worldwide that I would not have otherwise found. No-one to date has asked me to remove anyone
2- My bank only thinks they know my mother's maiden name! I know what they think it is and that is what I use! but it is not her name!
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2- My bank only thinks they know my mother's maiden name! I know what they think it is and that is what I use! but it is not her name!
Crafty! The only problem is what would happen if you really did have something go seriously wrong with your account and they asked for a proof of ID showing your mother's maiden name? ;)
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Then I will happily explain to them the stupidity of such a question in the first place!!
In fact my mother's maiden name was ni dhonnchadha as spelt by her,
her sister used the English Donohue,
her brother used the English version Donoghue,
their father used Donohoe and
his brother was O'Donohoe
Move into cousins and there are several more variations before going back into ancestors!!
As the 20th century progress and birth certs were required for identification each used what they were registered as, so I am told!
I think I may actually have done the bank a favour!
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If the bank were going to ask for proof of mothers maiden name there would be a large community of paranoid people (me being one ;D ;D) who could not prove any connection between the name used and the actual one. In fact I don't even use the same 'maiden name' for more than one of the web sites asking for it.
It is actually recommended that you DON'T use the true name to answer these sorts of questions on web sites or with banks - for all the reasons mentioned above :) The idea is that "mother's maiden name" is simply used as a reminder of the word you use.
So my first school is anything but, my favourite car is the opposite, I was born in the town of my grandfathers birth - you get the idea :) Obviously if you are being asked these questions by the tax man for example you probably need to give true answers but simply for web site security no.
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Ok, now I'm suitably scared, I have made all my trees private!!! :o
It's so sad isn't it, that there are people out there who live to hack into people's personal information.