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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: pufflet on Saturday 09 February 13 09:00 GMT (UK)
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I live in New Zealand & I am researching 2 branches of my paternal ancestors... SMITH & BARCLAY of Fifeshire. John SMITH (b.1823 Strathmiglo Parish, Fife) m Georgina BARCLAY (b.abt 1832 Balgonie, Fife or Perthshire?) Marriage date: 5 Apr 1854, Dunbog, Fife. I am having difficulty finding a birth/baptism record for Georgina & also who her parents were. John & Georgina emigrated to NZ in 1859 to Canterbury on the 'Oriental'. It appears that they had 2 children, Jane (b.1855) & Andrew (b.1857) in Scotland, then 3 chn in NZ: Christina Isdale (b.1859 & my paternal g grandmother); Georgina Barclay (b. 1861) & William (b. abt 1875?).
Can anyone help me with ideas to find Georgina's birth details & parents? A Scotlands People website search hasn't located her.
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Hi Pufflet
I am sure you have this but just including this 1841 census entry for background:
David Barclay 26, farmer (FreeCen here http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl show David as 20 not 26).
Janet Barclay 20
Elizabeth Barclay 10
Georgina Barclay 9
Margaret Robertson 20 servant
Helen Burell 21 servant
Address: Balgonie, Abernethy, Perthshire
Relationships within the household were not shown on the 1841 census, so hard to say how they connect to each other.
Have you found Georgina in 1851? Struggling to find her on the transcript so far for that year...
Monica
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Wonder if this is connected ?
Scotlandspeople Wills and Testaments has Andrew Barclay dated 31/12/1841 tenant in Balgonie Parish of Abernethy.
ev
Added - think Georgina is noted as 52 on her death in New Zealand in 1890 but that would seem to be a bit young for a 1854 marriage :-\
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Is this the David & Janet on that 1841 Census ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQ7X-YS3
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQ7F-75R
ev
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Hi Ev
Does look like it may connect to that 1841 entry doesn't it.
A couple more children showing to this Andrew Barclay:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQ7F-HRF
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQ7X-TQL
These look to be all around the early to mid 1820s. Can't see anything as yet for the Elizabeth and Georgina who show in 1841.
Monica
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Hi Monica ,
There is an Elisabeth Barclay 20 niece at Dunbog Fife in 1851(born Perth , Perth).
Head of household George Barclay farmer age 60 born Kemback Fife
ev
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Elizabeth Barclay may have married John Mitchell
1881 Fliskmiln Farm House Flisk Fife
John Mitchell 53 farmer b. Cupar Fife
Elizabeth B Mitchell wife 51 b. Abernethy Perth
Lots of children including -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYBX-32W
ev
Added - Scotlandspeople has a marriage John Mitchell / Elisabeth Barclay 1856 Dunbog Fife
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Great to get some replies so quickly! I have the 1841 Scotland Census entry for David BARCLAY & family, including a Georgina. The entry has some possible transcription errors as Janet BARCLAY's age is stated as 20 & her 2 daughters 10 & 9 which would mean she had them when she was about 10! Or the other possibility is that David & Janet are siblings of Georgina & Elisabeth, not parents?
I can't find them in the 1851 Census.
I also have the Elisabeth BARCLAY m John MITCHELL info. Their marriage record has her parents as Andrew BARCLAY & Jean RITCHIE. But I can't find a dau. Georgina connected to Andrew & Jean BARCLAY. There appear to be 3 farms involving SMITHs (Balmeadie/ow Farm, Dunbog), BARCLAYs (Johnstone Farm, Dunbog) & MITCHELLs (Fliskmiln Farm, Flisk). There are Barclays at all 3 in the 1851 & 1861 Censuses but no Georgina!
Georgina's age on her NZ Death Cert. may not have been correct. She died in Sunnyside Psychiatric Hospital, Christchurch following a number of epileptic seizures in 1890. I have written to the Canterbury Health Bd to see how I can access her medical record.
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My thoughts are that Georgina and Elisabeth were sisters(although there is no proof of this so far).
It might be worth looking at that 1841 Will for Andrew Barclay as it may mention his children :-\
(10 credits for 8 pages)
I think Andrew Barclay is the son of David Barclay and Catherine Nicol.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBJZ-8Q8
Andrew Barclay and George Barclay(Elisabeth's uncle on the 1851 Census) both had daughters called Catherine Nicol Barclay.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY8F-Y7H
There are other baptisms at Kemback for a David Barclay and Catherine Nicol -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYCT-4FX
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY8F-BWY
ev
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Georgina and John's first born daughter Jane was born in 1855. Have you looked at the image of this birth online on Scotlands People? For this, the first year of official registration in Scotland, the entries on the registers included extra information which was withdrawn by 1856. Might be worth seeing to check what it may show for mother and fathers (place of birth, age etc.).
The name Jean and Jane are interchangeable in Scotland, see www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jane.html This name for Georgina's daughter would fit well if named after her mother (for examples of Scottish naming pattern see www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm )
Great that there is so much on likely sister Elizabeth who went on to marry John Mitchell (including a photo here www.robertnrussell.com/web2/mitchellf/pafg04.htm).
You may not find a birth or christening entry for Elizabeth and Georgina unfortunately. Many records have been destroyed or lost over the years. The ones that show, including mentions for Janet and David, all seem to stop around the mid 1820s. It is for this reason that having the details of Elizabeth Barclay helps to link up to Andrew Barclay and Jane Ritchie as parents for the two younger girls on that 1841 census, likely with elder brother David and Janet.
Pity we cannot find Georgina as yet on the 1851 census. That entry might help further. I think the entry that Ev has mentioned for Elizabeth with uncle and family also helps to firm things up more.
Monica
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My apologies for not replying sooner, Monica & Ev but I am a volunteer guide for the local Art Deco Trust & it's been our annual Art Deco Weekend event so very busy. Your replies have been very helpful. I have accessed Andrew BARCLAY's will on Scotlands People. Unfortunately he died intestate so it is just an inventory of his estate, plus agreement that his son, David is executor. No other family names are mentioned except that David had a brother & sisters. Frustratingly I haven't managed to find Andrew's Death record on Scotlands People... d. 24 Feb 1837.
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Forgot to add... yes I have the Scotlands People Birth record for Jane SMITH (Georgina BARCLAY & John SMITH's oldest child, b. 2 July 1855, Balmeadie Farmhouse, Fife. Georgina's place of birth is difficult to read but I think it is Balgonie, Parish of Abernethy.
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Georgina was my great grandmother. Her youngest son William Smith,born Spreydon, Christchurch,NZ,1875,was my grandfather.I never knew him.Andrew,John and Georgina Smith's eldest son, died 1942 in Christchurch, NZ. Aged 84.
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Thank you for your reply.How do I reply to your message? I tried but it said I wasn't able to send a private message.
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GD you need to have 3 posts before you can private message.
Just reply to this post and that should get you started.
ev
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Pufflet - I am not related to this family, but I run a Wanless surname study, and at our site (www.wanlessweb.org), we have the will of David Wanliss who made his will in 1830 and died in 1832 at Abernethy. His wife was Janet Moon, who pre-deceased him. In this will, he names "Andrew Barclay tenant of Balgonie" and "David Barclay, James Wanliss Barclay, and Catherine Barclay my grandchildren, being the children of the marriage of the said Andrew Barclay and my deceased daughter Elizabeth Wanliss", and later in the will, he adds the child Janet to the same list. FamilySearch or the OPR shows birth/baptism records for these 4 children at Abernethy (David 1819, Janet 1821, James Wanless Barclay 1823, Catherine Nicol Barclay 1825). Their mother Elizabeth Wanless must have died between Catherine's birth in Nov 1825 and the writing of David's will in Sep 1830. It looks to me like Andrew remarried (to Jean Ritchie? Is there a marriage record?) between 1825 and 1831 and they had Elizabeth and Georgina. Andrew, and presumably Jean, were dead by the 1841 census, and the older siblings David & Janet appear with their younger siblings Elizabeth & Georgina at the family farm at Balgonie. At least, that's how it looks to me.
I like the theory that Andrew Barclay was a son of David Barclay & Catherine Nicol. Andrew's wife Elizabeth was born in 1784; if Andrew was born to David & Catherine in 1788, he would have been just a few yrs younger than Elizabeth.
Question: Have you seen the marriage of Georgina Barclay & John Smith? Does it not name her parents?
regards,
Holly
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My grandfather William Smith , b 1875, was the youngest child of Georgina Barclay ( Smith ), her first child being born in 1855.
My father, b 1917 was given Wanless as a middle name. I came across the Wanless Web some time ago whilst trying to find some clue as to the origin of my father's middle name. I had seen Georgina aged 9 and had wondered if she was my Georgina but couldn't be sure. My father said John and Georgina had seven children. He named them as Jeanie, Annie, Andrew, Christina, Georgina, John and William. Just recently I found Andrew's death notice and last week found a record of Annie's birth in 1866.
This is interesting.
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It's really useful to get your info 'hollycochran' re the BARCLAY family. I do have the record from Scotlands People, of the marriage of John SMITH & Georgina BARCLAY but no parents are named as it is a parish record.
I think your suggestion that Andrew BARCLAY was married twice sounds very likely. I haven't managed to find his marriage to Elisabeth WANLESS/WANLISS on Scotlands People. I have found a marriage to Jean RITCHIE, 1830 on Family Search IGI, Community Contributed Index, Perth, Perthshire, with child, Elisabeth BARCLAY. But Georgina is still illusive!
I also haven't found Andrew's first wife, Elisabeth's death record.
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Georgina's age on her NZ Death Cert. may not have been correct. She died in Sunnyside Psychiatric Hospital, Christchurch following a number of epileptic seizures in 1890. I have written to the Canterbury Health Bd to see how I can access her medical record.
I'm a great-great-grandson of Georgina's, descended from her son John Henry Smith (1868 - 1937).
I know this is an old thread now, but I was wondering if you did manage to get hold of Georgina's medical record? As Smith is a very common name, it would be good to be able to verify that the Georgina Smith who died in Sunnyside is in fact the one I'm descended from. I wondered if her medical records might have anything useful (date/place of birth, names of family etc.) to identify her positively.
I came across a news article (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18710726.2.10 - scroll down to "Inquest") from 1871 indicating that (again assuming this is the same Georgina Smith) she may have had another child at that time, which was unfortunately suffocated in bed while she was having a fit.
There is also some discussion at http://www.wanlessweb.org/TNG/getperson.php?personID=I119&tree=49 proposing that Georgina may have her puerperal fever following childbirth around 1860, which might have brought on the epilepsy.