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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: daganta on Saturday 09 February 13 03:42 GMT (UK)
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HAYWARD LOOKUP: George Walter Hayward (used Walter in Canada) born Newbury, Berkshire 1845-50. Married Ruth from Chelvey bucks and immigrated to Quebec Canada 1884. the family belonged to the 'Plymouth Brethren' in Sherbrooke Quebec where there was a large congregation (?) of this group. I have looked into the other George Haywards in Newbury at that time but so far can not make connection. I did notice that Newbury, at that time, had a Lower Meeting House Independant parish and cemetery?
1871 George Walter was living Upton With Chalvey, Buckinghamshire, England
Geo 26 (or 28 or 27 every census was different age.) born Newbury Berks approx 1845 labourer, wife Ruth 26 Born Chelvey Bucks and some of his children. Then they lived in Kensington for awhile before immigrating to Canada. Thank you Thankyou!
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Hi I had a g g grand mother Frances Hayward Married Joseph Leader. she was born in 1855, InkPen, Died, 1892.
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What were George's parents names?
The marriage certificate will contain his father's name.
Marriage:March qtr 1869
Eton district vol 3a, page 481
Hayward, George
+ and on the same page +
Garner, Ruth
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I did notice that Newbury, at that time, had a Lower Meeting House Independant parish and cemetery?
Newbury had/has several nonconformist chapels/churches - the Independents are now the United Reform Church. Their records post-1837 are at the BRO.
The Brethren also had a meeting house from c1860 when they took over the old Baptist Meeting House in Northcroft Lane. Presumably they were around earlier in order to build a large enough congregation to warrant such premises.
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Thank you so much.
KGarrad: I had been searching for Ruth Gardner but Garner was listed on her daughter's marriage in Sherbrooke Que. I had focused on trying to find Walter (Geo) but you sent me on a new quick search and I just found her living with her parents in 1861 census (Eton district). With all the lines I have been researching I had not put as much focus on her, you just helped me open that up.
Newburychap: That clinched it. My mother mentioned that her grandmother in Toronto used to say thee and thou and didn't know why until I discovered this religious connection in Quebec. Her grandfather Fred Hayward died when she was very young. This may help in finding the right Walter/George Hayward as there are a few born in Newbury and there may have been a group in Chalvey.
Kevin22: Walter and Ruth would be my g g grandparents as well and after finding this whole family (my mother knew nothing about) in Toronto and Sherbrooke I am very excited to find his Hayward family in Newbury. I had read that the origin of the name was that it described a 'ward' who had a side deal of 'hay'?
Thanks again before going out to shovel through this few feet of snow I will have fun working with these clues!
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Could this be the marriage for your George & Ruth??
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJJM-S31
Chris
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Yes! Thank you. I am so sorry to have bothered you all the last time I was checking so much of this was not available. I keep forgetting to check FS as they have all those new records! Now I have his father as Thomas Hayward so will check on that next. I have learned after so many years that you just have to go with the ancestors who are revealing themselves...I had no plans to check into the Haywards until I posted a request on the berkshire forum about a Martin transported from or was from Berks in 1749 and thought I might as well post my Haywards. I have not moved for the last couple of hours as I have been tracing Ruth Garner's mother Fanny and Slough and the Sun is out. Thank you all so much especially for Thomas!
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I had read that the origin of the name was that it described a 'ward' who had a side deal of 'hay'?
?
It's a occupation surname, like Carpenter, Smith, or Shepherd.
A hayward was a job/post in mediaeval society - every manor had one or more. Their job was to ensure that everyone was obeying the decisions of the manorial management in terms of farming their bit of the common field etc. The hayward was appointed annually at the manorial court, often leading citizens would take it in turn to do the duty (unpaid). If someone decided they liked the job and took it on for a decade or two they could well move from the hayward John to John Hayward.
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That is a clearer explanation thank you it would be great if I could get back farther to uncover more hayward occupations. englishorigenes.com takes your Ydna test results to get back to the original ancestor/s who were first awarded the surname....I had not thought it through that far. I found out a lot about Ruth Garner Haywards family yesterday but have not found anything on George Walter Hayward and his father Thomas so I will have to order the marriage cert. I am still waiting for the docs on my Irish Hayes Liverpool sheltering home records to arrive from Bernardos. Thanks again
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If you can get access to this book, you may be surprised at the number of Newbury independent chapels listed therein:
Berkshire Religious Census 1851
Edited by Kate Tiller
Published by Berkshire Record Society in 2010
ISBN: 0 9548716 4 2
Description: This volume contains the text of the ecclesiastical census for Berkshire, and includes returns for 434 places of worship – 204 Anglican, 224 nonconformist and 6 Roman Catholic, providing a wide coverage of religious activity in the county in the mid-nineteenth century.
I, too, have an interest in the 'Brethren' meeting in 'Mr. Westells yard Northbrook Street', as I encountered a letter some years ago at Hampshire Record Office relating Stephen Leach's experiences in exchanges with Mr Westall in August 1846. Sadly, there is no further indication to which Mr Westall he was referring, but Francis and William - sons of Sarah WESTALL, widow of William senr - joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1849. In 1851 Alfred Brown submitted the Brethren's attendance numbers, and his household may be found at ref. HO107 1685 fol 216 page 34. However, I have not encountered any registers of membership.
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Ok will look for it...thanks! you just gave me an idea...there was a big plymouth brethren group in Sherbrooke Quebec which may be why the immigrated there and maybe they have records? Thanks
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I, too, have an interest in the 'Brethren' meeting in 'Mr. Westells yard Northbrook Street', as I encountered a letter some years ago at Hampshire Record Office relating Stephen Leach's experiences in exchanges with Mr Westall in August 1846. Sadly, there is no further indication to which Mr Westall he was referring, ...
The is another useful volume in the Berkshire Record Society series - Berkshire Nonconformist Meeting House Registrations 1689-1853 Pt II ed Lisa Spurrier, ISBN 0 9548716 0 X
It contains two registrations by the Plymouth Brethren, both in 1846.
The first (July 11) registers a school room in the Jack of Newbury Yard (ie in or off Jack Street) occupied by Philip Brown and the second (Dec 10) registers a room in Northbrook Street, the property of John Farrant Westall (who is involved in both registrations).
A room 'in the possession of' doesn't necessarily mean a room in his house, it could just mean he is paying the rent. The second could even be the registration of the meeting house off Northcroft Lane as there seems to have been very little precision in the definition of most of the locations.
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That's brilliant, Newburychap! I think I can now safely discount from 'my' Nonconformist WESTALLs the chap I've recorded John Tarrant WESTALL, who features a number of times in Newbury St Nicolas PRs and elsewhere.
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I just sent all this info to http://www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org/thank-you/ after I checked to see if there was any info on those registers online. I will dig some more for that location to see if there is anything else online about it. thanks!
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Just found this in a Newbury timeline on the Newbury historical site http://www.newbury-society.org/about/historical-timeline. GW is in bucks in 1871 with wife after marriage and i have not been able to find him or his father 'thomas' in 1861 anywhere..so just looking for this time period. you may have seen this before but interesting
1754 “Jack of Newbury” inn, later hotel, is established in Northbrook Street. It is demolished in 1934 and Marks & Spencers is now on the site.
In quebec death record the church is listed as "Sherbrooke (Methodist Church), Québec Plymouth Bretheran"
in the timeline is this: 1838 Newbury Methodist Church is built in Northbrook Street. It is refurbished in 1898 and 1988. In 1852 an elementary school is attached to it, continuing until 1908.
1859
Newbury National (elementary) School is built in Enborne Road – architect William Butterfield; it closes in 1990 (see that date) and the building is now a private language school. St John’s parish is formed. The Temperance Hall is built in Northcroft Lane (see 1722). A Baptist Church is built in Northbrook Street, replacing the 1702 meeting house in Northcroft Lane; it is demolished in 1940, and the site is now occupied by Edinburgh Woollen Mill and The Orange Shop.
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1754 “Jack of Newbury” inn, later hotel, is established in Northbrook Street. It is demolished in 1934 and Marks & Spencers is now on the site.{/quote]
The Jack was around before 1754. I have references from the 1720s or 30s which suggest it was up and running before then.
in the timeline is this: 1838 Newbury Methodist Church is built in Northbrook Street. It is refurbished in 1898 and 1988. In 1852 an elementary school is attached to it, continuing until 1908.
Nothing to do with the schoolroom in Jack Yard - different church on the other side of the street.
1859
Newbury National (elementary) School is built in Enborne Road – architect William Butterfield; it closes in 1990 (see that date) and the building is now a private language school. St John’s parish is formed. The Temperance Hall is built in Northcroft Lane (see 1722). A Baptist Church is built in Northbrook Street, replacing the 1702 meeting house in Northcroft Lane; it is demolished in 1940, and the site is now occupied by Edinburgh Woollen Mill and The Orange Shop.
The 1702 meeting house is the one the Brethren took over after the Baptists moved to Northbrook St. Was it really as late as 1859? I thought it was earlier - not always a good idea to rely on memory! This means that the 1846 registration was not for this meeting house. The nonconformist registrations end 1852 so don't cover the 1859 move(s). The BRS book covers registrations approved by the Diocese(s) - there was a civil registration process as well, records at TNA I think (went to a talk at TNA about them a few years back). It would be an interesting bit of research to put together all these local nonconformist bits and pieces.
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It was interesting finding so much info on Jack of Newbury! Also I found some historical photos of newbury and northbrook street which helped give me an idea of what we are talking about. Thank you for working on this. I heard back from the PBCC:
Alannah
Thanks for the enquiry. Unfortunately we do not have any historical records here that would help.
Kind regards
Andrew
Plymouth Brethren Christian Church
Chelwood House, Cox Lane, Chessington, Surrey, KT9 1DN | UK
Tel: +44 (0)20 8391 7620
Fax: +44 (0)20 8391 7621
Email info@plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org Web www plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org
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If anyone should decide to pursue the Newbury religious turmoil of the times, it might be useful to place Stephen Leach's letter of August 1846 [found tucked into the Register of the lesser meeting house, near The Abbey, in Romsey, Hampshire] in context with accompanying correspondence in collection 33A04/1 on the HRO database http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServe/ [Use advanced search and enter only the finding number to search and then click on full details for the collection.]
I'd be happy to provide a copy of my transcription of the letter that mentions Mr. Westall, if requested by PM.
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really is becoming an interesting topic. I had never heard of them until I found these quebec records for ancestors I had never heard of. My mother didn't remember her grandfather much except for his funeral in Toronto which was quite something she said as he was a 'bobby' in the toronto police force having entered into it straight from the army. She was only 12 or so at the time. She does however remember her grandmother used "thee" and "thou" and she never knew why...it is not from her irish ancestors in nova scotia.
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She does however remember her grandmother used "thee" and "thou" and she never knew why...it is not from her irish ancestors in nova scotia.
The Quakers [aka Society of Friends] were using those expressions well into the 19th Century ..... ::)
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since she was a staunch catholic i figured it must have come from her husband fred hayward as most of the Berks/Quebec haywards moved to Toronto which is why fred went there and it may have been from his siblings and parents who were there for a while. have you ever heard of the PB using those terms?
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I have no knowledge of the expressions used by PB but I 'Googled' Plymouth Brethren and was surprised with all the details and mention of their Irish origins.
It appears very unlikely that we will ever establish Newbury 'Brethren' membership but 'Alfred Brown, Ministering Brother, Mr. Westalls Yard Newbury', was able to provide attendance numbers for 30 March 1851 [6 morning; 40 afternoon; and 6 evening] and indicate that the building was converted for use about 1846.