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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wiltshire => England => Wiltshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: minotauros on Thursday 07 February 13 15:23 GMT (UK)
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Good morning!
(This is my first posting...)
Looking for baptismal record of Samuel Meade (sometimes Mead in documents) from England!
The 1901 Canada census for Brockville, Ontario, has the following information about him:
birth date: 5 march 1853
birth place: England
date of immigration to Canada: 1870
racial origin: English
religion: Brethren
occupation: carter
Birth date is the same on his death notice.
Birth place is the same in all other documents I have seen, without ever a locality name, except on the
death record of one of his sons where he is said from "Devin England".
Except in that 1901 census, his religion is Baptist (all of his 5 sons were Baptist ministers at one time
or another).
His wife and children were all born in Canada but I have found no record of his marriage thus far; so I
don't know his parents' names.
Family Search mentions only two Samuel Meade born in or around 1853: one that still lives in England after
1870; and one from Tilshead, Wiltshire, mentioned in the census of 1861, but not in 1871. His siblings
appear in the Tilshead or West Lavington registers but not him!
My hypothesis is that "Devin" is an erroneous reading for Devizes, where his parents could have been
married, and that he could have been baptised there... or at Amesbury?
Thank you for your patience at reading me: I wanted you to know exactly what I know and not.
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Hi minotauros
Welcome to rootschat :)
Thank you for a detailed explanation, it is a great help. Do the documents actually state he was born in Wiltshire or could the Devin, England mean Devon. :-\
Rosie
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Wow! I didn't expect so many people looking at one message in such a short period of time. Thanks a lot!
No document mentions Wiltshire, it is just a deduction from the fact that a lookup on Family Search for Meades in Devon didn't bring any result.
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Hi and welcome ... tried posting a reply before but not sure it got through.
Found a marriage, which may be one of Samuel's sons?? in Ontario, Canada on 30 December 1915
Walter Johne Meade, aged 30, to Lulu Lucinda Nash. Walter's father, Samuel Meade, a Clergyman. Mother's maiden name Sarah Fennel or Funnel ... hard to make out.
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You're right, Bonnie!
In fact, Walter is the elder known son (the other children being Rhoda, Henry Edward, William, Harold Cecil and Adelbert Lawrence). From the 1901 Canadian census, he is born 17 Nov 1875.
As you can see, the names of the children evoke names found among the siblings and parentage of the Samuel Meade from Tilshead (Wilt), hence my "hypothesis".
As far as the descendants of Samuel & Sarah Meade are concerned, filiations are ok for me. It is Samuel's origins that I am searching.
Many thanks!
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Hi ... if I have the right Meade's it seems they crossed the border into America and the 1920 census of Detroit, Michigan shows Walter 44, wife Lula 39, their children Glenn 13 and Margery 11 and father Rev. Samuel Meade aged 66, a widow.
The 1930 Census shows Walter J Meade, 54 wife Lula 49 and son Glenn aged 23 now living in Alachua, Florida.
Do you know when Samuel died?
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Right again, Bonnie!
He crossed the border in 1907 from Sarnia (Ont) to Detroit (Mich)... and eventually died on 23 May 1930 at Daytona Beach (Florida). All of his family seems to have moved quite a lot around Canada and the USA...
I am also trying to "identify" his wife Sarah L. Fennell, born 18 Oct 1857 in Ontario (where? I don't know) and living in Ohio en 1930 with her son Walter. No trace of her found after that...
About the Amesbury possible "gateway", I can't find out where I got it, so I have no present real basis for it!
Glad to hear from you!
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Hi, I see on FreeBDM that a Samuel Mead (not Meade) birth registered Q1/1853 5a/176 at Amesbury, Wiltshire.??
I presume you have his death certificate and there are no parents name shown.
Sorry need to go back to bed, its 3.45am here.
Good luck with your search.
Bonnie
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Well I think your Tilshead one looks extremely promising. I certainly can't see him in 1871 or after.
It looks as though his father died in 1868.
Have you traced through on the sisters of this Samuel.
Rosie
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Hi there
I would be expanding your research to the use of the Wiltshire BMD, which lists some Devizes material for the Meade family, however in saying that also use Mead as the phonetic variant.
Similiarly I would use the surrounding county OPCs as well as the freebmduk and familysearch.org site.
As a general note Devizes appears on freebmduk as a registration district encompassing a lot of villages,
However Tisbury appears not only as a registration district encompassing many villages, but, Tisbury appears as Mere registration district in the freebmduk.
:)
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Good evening, Rosie!
I have not digged farther than what was available on Family Search or the Wiltshire Online Census Project, given that Walter Mead & Ann Chapman are still only an hypothesis... which the reference of a Samuel Mead registered at Amesbury in the first quarter of 1853 (as posted just a moment ago in this topic) brings water to the mill... A lookup at the register itself should perhaps answer two questions: is he born on or very near to thespecified date (05.03.1853)? what are his parents names?
Do you know where "his" (presumed) father died? and where and when he married? Could my guess of Amesbury or Devizes find a foundation?
Hoping to hear from you again...
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Hello
There is a Samuel Mead birth registration Plymouth Devon in December 1851, also a Samuel George Meade June 1850 Taunton (spands Devon and Somerset). Churchstanton was transferred from Devon to Somerset in 1896.
Ewan
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Do you have a rough idea as to when Samuel's parents married? You mentioned Samuel was born in 1853, was he the oldest? For example freeBMD shows a marriage of Elijah Mead 1849 March quarter to either Ann Laws or Thirza Giddings in Amesbury district which includes the village of Tilshead. Just a thought.
Dave
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Hi, I see on FreeBDM that a Samuel Mead (not Meade) birth registered Q1/1853 5a/176 at Amesbury, Wiltshire.??
Bonnie
This does look promising, I think.
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Hello
There is a Samuel Mead birth registration Plymouth Devon in December 1851, also a Samuel George Meade June 1850 Taunton (spands Devon and Somerset). Churchstanton was transferred from Devon to Somerset in 1896.
Ewan
I think that the Plymouth one probably died December qtr 1867
Mead, Samuel age 15 E.Stonehouse 5b 198 :-\
Rosie
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Good evening, Rosie!
Do you know where "his" (presumed) father died? and where and when he married? Could my guess of Amesbury or Devizes find a foundation?
Good afternoon ;D
This is a possible death registration for his father
March qtr 1868
Mead, Walter age 41
Devizes registration district ref 5a 59
and maybe the marriage :-\
December qtr 1850
Chapman Ann
Mead Walter
Devizes 8 613
Walters christening from familysearch
Walter Mead
christening 18 Mar 1827 TILSHEAD,WILTSHIRE
parent Isaac Mead, Ann
I have to finish for today but if no one else has looked for the siblings of this Samuel I'll look tomorrow. It will probably be solved by then. ;D
Rosie
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Hello to all those who have responded up to now...
As suggested, I am consulting (for the first time it seems to me) FreeBMD, WiltshireBMD... and have found mention of the marriage of Walter Mead and Ann Chapman in the 4th quarter of 1850 at Devizes, but not the birth of Samuel Mead(e) in 1853. (But why was Tisbury suggested?)
As far as Devon is concerned, I wonder if the person providing the "place of birth" on the death funeral record you have been specific enough to mention a town plus a county plus "England"... (but this is speculation!)
I do not know more about Samuel that what I already mentionned: since he was 17 when he migrated, perhaps he came with relatives, but I have not found traces... unless...
Thanks for all your contributions!
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You have not mentioned when the oldest child was born - this date will give some idea of the rough date of the parent's marriage. I must admit I like the idea of the Meads of Tilshead, a small village on Salisbury Plain. Apropos nothing, I used to drive through the village each day for 6 years, to and from work.
Dave
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Hi, Rosie!
I had not seen your reply while entering mine. Most of the 8 or so children of Walter & Ann are said to be born in Tilshead and/or West Lavington... but birth places (in censuses for example) do not always concur with baptismal parishes... That would be true if the Samuel (son of Walter & Ann), aged 8 years in 1861 and born in Tilshead were the same as the Samuel baptized in 1853 at Amesbury, wouldn't it?
Sorry that I cannot provide neither the parents or any brothers or sisters of the Samuel who came to Canada! I know it would have helped...
M
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Right again, Bonnie!
I am also trying to "identify" his wife Sarah L. Fennell, born 18 Oct 1857 in Ontario (where? I don't know) and living in Ohio en 1930 with her son Walter. No trace of her found after that...
You said that that Sarah was living with their son Walter in Ohio in 1930 however the 1920 USA Census for Michigan shows that Rev. Samuel Meade was a widow and he arrived into the USA in 1920
Bonnie
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Woops!
This is a mistake from my part: Sarah Fennell is effectively dead before the 1920 US census; in the 1930 census, she is said born in Ohio, and also dead. Otherwise, however, she is said born in Ontario... I've been trying to locate either or both or her and Samuel Meade in the Canada and USA for 1911 and 1910 respectively, but not succeeded. In 1920, Samuel is living with his son Walter.
Have you had time to rest a little?
M
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Hi ... I am thinking that why Samuel went to USA to be with his son and his family is that his wife had passed away. I have read that the 1920 census was taken from the 1st January for 30 days so that limits the timespan of when Samuel arrived into the USA from Canada. Maybe wife Sarah died in 1919?
I didn't see an answer to question if you have Samuel's death certificate and if you have, I presume that his parents names aren't shown.
Thank heavens I got back to sleep OK as up for a 3 hour drive in about an hour's time
Bonnie
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If you think that Samuel Mead was born in Tilshead then his parents were probably Elijah Mead born about 1825 in Tilshead and Thirza Giddings who married in 1849 as I mentioned previously.
You may also wish to consider contacting the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre, Cocklebury Road, Chippenham, Wiltshire. SN15 3QN. E-mail heritageadmin@wiltshire.gov.uk
Tel - 00441249705500 Fax - 00441249705527. Or visit their website. The staff are extremely helpful and knowledgable and I believe will do searches of Parish Records etc
Dave
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I forgot Thirza Giddings was born about 1821 also in Tilshead.
Dave
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Do you have a rough idea as to when Samuel's parents married? You mentioned Samuel was born in 1853, was he the oldest? For example freeBMD shows a marriage of Elijah Mead 1849 March quarter to either Ann Laws or Thirza Giddings in Amesbury district which includes the village of Tilshead. Just a thought.
Dave
I think that the family we are looking at is (1861) Wiltshire
Walter Mead bn Tilshead c1827
Ann c1827 bn West Lavington
Emily c1852 Tlshead
Samuel c1853 Tilshead
Hannah c1855 West Lavington
Isaac c1857 West Lavington
Sarah c1860 West Lavington
By 1871 Ann is a widow and Samuel is nowhere to be found :)
Rosie
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Progressing with the children to see if they went to Canada as well ::)
The ones I have so far ;D
Emily married Henry Bailey and moved to Staffordshire, Henry is widowed by 1891 -Emily's mother Ann is staying with him and the children
Isaac is still in England early 1900's married to Sarah and living Staffordshire.
Sarah A married John Topp Dec qtr 1879 Devizes 5a 213. By 1901 she is Sarah A Taylor also living in Staffordshire with her Topp children. She married Arthur Taylor Dec qtr 1899 Walsall 6b 1222
Rosie
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Hi! I'm back after some researches on my side...
I see difficulty with Elija Mead & Thirza/Theresa [Giddings] being the parents of Samuel:
- Samuel's birth date is 05 March 1853 as provided by the 1901 Canada census as well as by his death notice, who are independent sources, given that the census was not accessible before 1995, at which date Samuel had been dead for 65 years; so the person stating the date on the death notice could not know the date on the census... and, miraculously they are identical!
- the children of that couple that I have found (through Family Search) in the Tilshead registers are: Mary Frances M. (b 25.05.1851), James Giddings M. (b 04.09.1853), Elizabeth Ann M. (b 21.03.1856) and Sarah Jane M. (b 29.04.1859).
So, seems that I will have to stick to my initial guess... to which I will come back in a moment.
Your help is appreciated!
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Where do you find the time to do all those searches, Rosie?
You are a good tracker, exactly on the right family (I mean that of a Samuel son of Walter & Ann). From the late dates at which you find them still in England, I'd be surprised to discover any of the other children migrated in Canada or the USA.
Walter Mead, the father, born c1827, is very probably a member of Isaac Mead & Ann ..., from Tilshead and parents of (from Family Search):
Emily (b 21.07.1822)
Rhode (b 20.02.1825)
Walter (b 18.03.1827)
Samuel (b 22.02.1829)
Sarah Ann (b 06.02.1831)
Martha (b 07.08.1833)
Mary (b 07.09.1835)
Hannah (b 12.11.1837, d 24.05.1846)
all in the Tilshead registers.
You'll surely note that similar names among the above children of Isaac and those of his son Walter...
Pleased to hear from you!
M
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Hello...
I searched late last night and again today in the Quebec Passenger Lists Index 1865-1900 (from Library and Archives Canada site) for a Samuel Mead(e): none!
For a Mead(e) arriving in 1870 (year declared in the 1901 census):
- William, aged 58
- Matthew, on the "Scandinavian", no age given in the index; looking at the original image, the photo is very shady so I even have difficulty to read both first name and surname; age unreadable; but his trade being "laborer" and no other of his name on the boat, that could be him but I am quite unsure!
In 1871: three, aged 27, 20 and 12
In 1869: fifteen: two loners(!), aged 19 and 25;
three 3-persons families (father & mother & child of young age);
and another family about which I found a topic started on Rootschat on 26.03.2005 and left pending; for which reason I have posted my information there!
So, I am puzzled again: if there is no trace of Samuel Meade migrating to Canada around 1870, perhaps he migrated to the USA at some time (though quite young) and from there to Canada?!
Progressing takes time!
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Hi there.
It is always possible that the passenger list did not survive or was illegible for transcribing. Also, if I remember correctly, it is only Quebec City arrivals that are indexed by name for the time frame you are looking at. He may have come in at Montreal, Halifax, or Saint John NB, in which case you would need to go page by page through the records.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-908.003-e.html
I see that Samuel and Sarah's son Walter was b. in Montreal? Perhaps his parents were married there, although I can't see a marriage off hand.
PB
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I agree with you concerning the passenger lists.
On the other hand, it is the first time I hear (rather see!) that Walter would be born in Montreal! Except for the 1901 census which says he is born in urban Quebec (province I assume), he is most regularly said born in Ontario.
A reference concerninc Montreal would then be welcome!
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I said I agreed with Polarbear for the passenger lists because the National Archives site appeared ambigous.
But I have just listed the ships for 1870 and there are 82: for all of them, Quebec is inscribed as port of arrival; in addition to Quebec (in combination with Quebec!), Gaspe and St.Johns appear once, and Montreal 7 times. For these nine "ambiguities", i looked at original pages and picked up some names that I then entered into the "search by name" function and they all pointed to the ship and date and port I had taken them from. Conclusion: the names have been indexed for the period concerned for all subsisting lists. That doesn't mean there are no transcription errors...
I am now quite anxious to see your information "a propos" of Montreal.
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Hi again.
From the Drouin Collection (image available on Anc****)
Baptism ...
Walter John son of Samuel Mead and Sarah Fennell his wife was b. 17 Nov 1875 and privately baptized 20 Feb 1876. Received into the Church 26 Mar 1876.
At Montreal St George Church (Anglican)
Parents both signed the register and there were 3 sponsors. Father's occupation not given.
You might find Samuel in the Montreal Directory at this link. Start at 'Serie Principale' and it is English after that .... http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/lovell/index.html
The 1891 census also indicates Walter was b. Quebec, as well as sister Rhoda? I haven't found a baptism for Rhoda, though.
PB
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Polarbear,
I was so surprised to see your reply on waking up this morning, that immediately started digging more about the Meade & Fennell... and just realize now that I should at least have thanked you for that breakthrough! I do now and will hopefully return with some new material to share, as soon as possible.
M
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Within the hour succeding Polarbear's reply, I found the marriage of Samuel Meade and Sarah Fennel at Montreal (Presbyterian Church of St Mark) in 1875: the groom's parents are those I had guessed from the start, namely Walter Meade & Anne Chapman.
I was not as succesful with their daughter Rhoda: since she was probably born in Montreal, and given that her father still appears in the Lovell's Directory of Montreal for 1878-1879, I have spent the following days looking through all the non catholic church registers of Montreal I had access to, without finding her.
Meanwhile, I was hoping that someone would have had time to check the possible birth record of Samuel at Amesbury, 1st quarter of 1853. It would still be interesting but not any more "necessary".
I suppose tha the following step is to lookup for the parents of Walter Meade and Ann Chapman in the 4th quarter 1850 Devizes records? Internet has suggestions about them, but a record is better proof!
Thank you to all of you who helped to get thus far.
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Within the hour succeding Polarbear's reply, I found the marriage of Samuel Meade and Sarah Fennel at Montreal (Presbyterian Church of St Mark) in 1875: the groom's parents are those I had guessed from the start, namely Walter Meade & Anne Chapman.
Meanwhile, I was hoping that someone would have had time to check the possible birth record of Samuel at Amesbury, 1st quarter of 1853. It would still be interesting but not any more "necessary".
I suppose tha the following step is to lookup for the parents of Walter Meade and Ann Chapman in the 4th quarter 1850 Devizes records? Internet has suggestions about them, but a record is better proof!
I am so glad you have found the marriage for Samuel and solved your problem. ;D
Unfortunately we cannot look at birth certificates without buying them. As for the marriage it might be a good idea to post a look up on the Wiltshire boards
Wiltshire BMD http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk/marriages.php has the following
MEAD Walter
CHAPMAN Ann
Church - West Lavington
Registers At History Centre
Reference /1/126
Rosie
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Hi, you can contact the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre at.......
Cocklebury Road,
Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 3QN
Tel: 00441249705500
E-mail: heritageadmin@wilshire.gov.uk. Or visit their website www.wshc.eu/
Dave
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Though I wished for the contrary, I was expecting such replies to my queries. Given that I am new to both Rootschat and research in England, I really did not expect to find such difficulties at obtaining vital information from records... I realize even more now how privileged I am of being born in Quebec (Canada), where registers access is unrestricted for the last hundred years, and where very complete abstracts are available in major public labraries up to the 1980s.
That being said, I have been going thru the Wiltshire BMD indexes and found nothing more than what I knew. Luckily, as mentioned earlier in this topic, baptisms of eight children of Isaac Mead & Ann ... were found at Tilshead, from Family Search, between 1822 and 1837: that is, not included in the Wiltshire BMD! So, how do I proceed from there? how do I find Ann's family name if not mentioned in the registers?
Is this the kind of query that I should rather put on a "one name studies" board?
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I have a similar situation concerning Ann Chapman (by the way, I found her full name as wife of Walter Mead when he died at Devises in 1868 aged 41, all that on... Rootschat! in a topic about "Mead family" dated 31 March 2011): from censuses and West Lavington baptisms, she appears to be Ann, baptized 06 Apr 1828, daughter of William Chapman & Mary ... Ten children of that couple are baptized at the same place from 1818 to 1839. But not family name for Mary! And the Wiltshire BMD doesn't help either.
M
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Hi
No, don't put your query on the one name studies, post it on the Wiltshire boards and ask for a look up. There may be members who have these registers on fiche/CD and are able to look them up for you. ;D
It is not difficult to obtain information on English records, admittedly after 1837 it is sometimes necessary to purchase certificates and often births were not registered between 1837 & the mid 1870's when registration was tightened up.
Most of our libraries have free access to Ancestry or Findmypast and the National Archives /County records offices and Latter Days saints libraries are also extremely useful. One thing you have to bear in mind is that a lot of our sites such as freereg/freebmd and the varies County Online Parish sites are all reliant on volunteers to transcribe the information so it is generally ongoing and therefore incomplete.
As far as familysearch is concerned it was not set up for family history purposes and in a lot of cases the parish register transcripts are incomplete. I did most of my research by visiting my local family history centre regularly and wading through films so know from experience how incomplete the transcriptions sometimes are.
Don't forget that Wiltshire BMD will only have records after registration in mid 1837 so you will need to see Parish registers for earlier records. Just keep asking on here. ;D
Rosie
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I have a similar situation concerning Ann Chapman (by the way, I found her full name as wife of Walter Mead when he died at Devises in 1868 aged 41, all that on... Rootschat! in a topic about "Mead family" dated 31 March 2011): from censuses and West Lavington baptisms, she appears to be Ann, baptized 06 Apr 1828, daughter of William Chapman & Mary ... Ten children of that couple are baptized at the same place from 1818 to 1839. But not family name for Mary! And the Wiltshire BMD doesn't help either.
M
Baptisms do not normally give mothers maiden name. ;)