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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Jan B on Tuesday 05 February 13 21:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: Jan B on Tuesday 05 February 13 21:16 GMT (UK)

Hi, I have found someone in my tree on the 1911 census that says she was born at Pengros, Glamorgan.  I've looked on Genuki and googled it, and can't find Pengros.  Is there such a place? 
She lived in Mountain Ash in 1911, and was aged 75. 

Title: Re: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 05 February 13 21:54 GMT (UK)

I assume this is Sarah Elms, as she's the only one coming up that fits

I'm not aware of one - wider census searches do not suggest it is a regularly used place name. Given her husband is English, it may be his attempt to write down an unfamiliar welsh placename [Penygroes? there's one in Carmarthenshire and Gwynedd].

Do you know her maiden name, so we can trace her back? I got rather confused as she bears the same name as her husband James's first wife but then saw  they'd been married all of two years. Frustratingly there appears to be a spouse missing from the entry that fits for him!

Title: Re: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: Jan B on Tuesday 05 February 13 22:32 GMT (UK)

Hi Mabel,
Thanks for your reply.  Yes it is Sarah ELMS,  the 2nd wife of my 2xg Uncle James ELMS who lived at Mountain Ash.  I have been trying to trace Sarah back to see if I could find her maiden name.
I found Sarah and James marriage on this site:-
http://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/en/leisurelibrariesculture/localhistoryheritage/familyhistoricalsearches/familyhistoricalsearches.aspx

Marriage
ELMS James 1908 
PHILLIPS Sarah 1908

I think Freebmd made a mistake with their marriage entry - this is what I found on Freebmd
Marriages Dec 1908   
PHILLIPS  Sarah     Pontypridd  11a 965
Marriages Dec 1908   
ELMS  James    Pontypridd  11a 935

From there I looked through all the previous census, and think I have the right Sarah PHILIPPS, but not sure.
If it is the right Sarah, she was married to Caleb PHILLIPS and lived in Aberdare, in the 1901, 1891 and 1881 census.  I went further back and found this marriage:-
Marriages Dec 1851   
Evans  Sarah    Narberth  26 105
 
Phillips  Caleb     Narberth  26 1053
 Carmarthenshire

Its confusing me that Sarah seems to change her place of birth sometimes.  That's why I'm trying to clarify about Pengros - your suggestion of Penygroes sounds good, as the previous census says that Sarah and Caleb were born  in Carmarthenshire.

For information here are Sarah and Caleb in the 1901 census
1901 census 

PHILLIPS, Caleb Head Married M 67 1834 Farm Worker
 N K, Pembrokeshire VIEW   
PHILLIPS, Sarah Wife Married F 65 1836
 N K, Glamorganshire VIEW   
PHILLIPS, Isaac J Son Single M 19 1882 Coal Miner
 N K, Glamorganshire VIEW   

Piece: 5034
Folio: 56
Page: 15     
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Civil Parish: Aberdare
Municipal Borough:
Address: Gelli Isaf, Aberdare
County: Glamorganshire

I'm still wondering if I'm on the right track with Sarah/Elms/Phillips/Evans.

Title: Re: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: trystan on Tuesday 05 February 13 22:40 GMT (UK)

It's not 'Pen Y Groes' is it? or 'Pen Groes"?

(Pen is the "top" or "head", and Groes is "Cross", in Welsh, with "Y" being 'the')

Title: Re: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: Jan B on Tuesday 05 February 13 23:12 GMT (UK)

Thanks Tryston - that's a possibility.  Will have to go through all the census again tomorrow and check that out.

Title: Re: Is there a place called Pengros in Glamorgan?
Post by: trellisick on Sunday 24 March 13 22:13 GMT (UK)

There is also a penhros near Caerphilly, Trelissick.