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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: gurt75 on Tuesday 05 February 13 19:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gurt75 on Tuesday 05 February 13 19:20 GMT (UK)
Hi can anyone help me decipher a couple of things on the attached death cert. The first is the "cause of death". I think it says "Decline" ???? If it does say that why would that be? Also the name of the informant. I cannot make either words out......  ?? in attendance, 43 Vere Street, Lincolns Inn Fields.

Many thanks

Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: AMBLY on Tuesday 05 February 13 19:54 GMT (UK)
Hi

Could the  Informant could be:

Robt Kerr
or
Robt Kew

"Decline" was a catch all term often used back then,  it could cover a multitude of what today would be  'real' cOd's .    Other oft-used terms were "Decay" or "Visitation from God". Here's a couple of links to where this cod had been discussed:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=366971.0
http://www.maggieblanck.com/Land/CD.html

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gurt75 on Wednesday 06 February 13 09:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Ambly.

Thank you for your reply. I have not come across a Robt Kerr or Robt Kew in my research but will keep it in mind. I'm not a 100% sure if I even have the right death. My 3 x grandmother was called Alice Winnacott & she died sometime between 1832 & 1840. As you can see the death cert is in the name of Ollis Winecott. I was hoping the informant may have been a relative just to confirm it is "my" Alice. Thanks for your links re "decline". I had not heard of this before ...
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 06 February 13 10:29 GMT (UK)
At 43 Vere Street in 1841 is Robert Rieve(or Reeve) a broker not born in Middx.
Also Noah Rieve 20
Frederick Rieve 18
Monden Rieve 8
Hannah Rieve 45

You say you're trying to work out is this is your Ollie Winecott- it says she is wife of John ,so does that tie up?
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 06 February 13 10:45 GMT (UK)
An Alice Winnacott of 2 Bow Street Covent Garden aged 40 was buried at St Clement Danes on 29th Jan 1839.

The cert says that Robert Rieve was in attendance when she died,all that means is that he was in the house to witness the death. He may have been visiting or called in off the street when hubby realised how close to death she was and needed a witness.
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gracie23 on Wednesday 06 February 13 10:55 GMT (UK)
I'm no expert, but I see the name on the certificate as "Allis", perhaps a phonetic spelling of her name Alice. ???

Deb
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gurt75 on Wednesday 06 February 13 12:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol. "My" Alices husband was called Thomas so unfortunately that doesn't tie up BUT she is the right age, right name (within reason) & a burial in St Clement Danes totally adds up as some of her children were buried there & the family seem to have quite a connection with that area. I'm would be very interested to know where you found the details of her burial on 29th Jan 1839??

Thanks
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 06 February 13 12:24 GMT (UK)
In the parish burials on Find My Past.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/burials?tab=3

When did Thomas die,what did he do ,who were her children and where were they in 1841?

Carol
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 06 February 13 12:30 GMT (UK)
Did they have a daughter called Alice who in 1843 married Richard Merrick?
Her father is listed as Thomas Winnacott bricklayer.

Maybe the registrar mucked up when he filled in Allis's (Alice) death cert and put him down as John.
He too was a bricklayer.Or could he really be Thomas John or John Thomas?

Also a son John Winnacott who married Lucy Brooking in 1840- he like his dad Thomas was a bricklayer. I think whoever gave the info to the registrar must have been so upset they gave the wrong christian name.
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gurt75 on Wednesday 06 February 13 14:35 GMT (UK)
Carol.... Thanks for the link to FindMyPast. Thomas WAS a bricklayer. He remarried in 1840 to a Charlotte (Cooper). They were living at 4 Angel Court, St Mary Le Strand @ the time of their marriage. A daughter, Catherine, dies in Feb 1840 (one month after Alice). The informant is Thomas Winnacott, Father, a bricklayer, living @ 5 Browns Building, Strand.  I cannot find Thomas on the 1841 OR 1851 census. (I did find a Charlotte Winnacott living this time with a JAMES, a bricklayer... again I suppose it could be a transcription error?)  I think Thomas died in 1862 in Chelsea. It appears he was a  Chelsea Pensioner & was in the Royal Chelsea Hospital in 1861 census. It says he is married but again I cannot find Charlotte in 1861. I have sent for his death cert although I'm not really very sure how much info it will give me but I'm hoping the name John is maybe on there. Yes Alice is Thomas & Alices daughter. I have found 8 children so far. Alice married Richard Meyrick in 1843.I believe John Winnacott may have been another son but can find no birth or baptism for him. Most of the other siblings were christened in St Katherine Coleman.
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: mgf on Wednesday 06 February 13 18:28 GMT (UK)
The cert says that Robert Rieve was in attendance when she died,all that means is that he was in the house to witness the death. He may have been visiting or called in off the street when hubby realised how close to death she was and needed a witness.

I think he's a bit more significant than that, as he's the Informant -- i.e. he is the one who turned up at the Registrar's office to register the death. I think he is at least likely to have been a family friend.

I'm no expert, but I see the name on the certificate as "Allis", perhaps a phonetic spelling of her name Alice. ???

Yes, I wondered myself if that might be a slightly unusual capital A -- I wish we could see more of this scribe's writing for comparison!

Cheers!

Mike
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: gurt75 on Friday 08 February 13 17:46 GMT (UK)
I have double checked what I have found so far & can find no mention of a Robert Reeve (as in marrying a member of the family) I'm inclined to agree with you Mike that he must have been a family friend. Im still looking for Thomas & Charlotte on the 1841 & 1851 Census's. Proving very elusive .....
Title: Re: Ollis Winecott
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 08 February 13 18:31 GMT (UK)
I think you probably have the right couple in the 1841 census-even though his name does look like James doesn't it? But he is a bricklayer  ;D

I too am having no luck in finding them in 51 though.

Carol