RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: MoonrakerDave on Tuesday 05 February 13 10:04 GMT (UK)
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Help, I have just been on the computer map of the world to try and find a town, this town being Lissan County Tryone, Lissan came up in a different county. Can the people in Ireland please confirm that this town exists?
My Gt Gt Gt grandfather was born there, I have information on this, quote John Stewart, gamekeeper, of Co Tyrone and Jane Marshall ofClontyairy were married in Lissan Church of Ireland Church on 7th Nov 1848, he a widower aged 39 and she a widow aged 26, fathers Thomas Stewart Labourer and Alexander bell farmer, witnesses John Hutchingson and John Morris. Unquote.
I am finding no references to Thomas Stewart any where in Ireland.
Regards
Moonraker Dave
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Lissan is not a town- it is the name of and townland and the parish.
Information about the church on the Church of Ireland website includes link to a map- it's just north of Cookstown:
http://ireland.anglican.org/information/dioceses/parish/10320
Church website-
http://www.armagh.anglican.org/index.php/parishes/?page_id=189
Does the marriage certificate say that John Stewart was living in Lissan townland? Irish marriage certificates list residence of bride and groom (at time of marriage) which may or may not be where they were born or their families lived.
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I am finding no references to Thomas Stewart any where in Ireland.
Civil registration of deaths started in 1864- if Thomas died before that date it will be difficult to find a record. If the family was Church of Ireland there may be an entry in a burial register- not all Church of Ireland records pre 1870 survive- but you need to know where the Stewart family were from. Since son John was a gamekeeper, John might have come to Lissan area to work. Marriage certificates do not always indicate if father was deceased.
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Lissan Church of Ireland burial registers survive from 1753. Before that the parish was united with neighbouring Desertlyn.
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http://www.discovereverafter.com/
this might help :)
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looking to find out more about Daniel McIvor who died 14 June 1870 and a 'Sarah' Mcivor (doesn't say whether wife or daughter or ?) present at death. He was 66 and a farmer.
I am looking for any more information - whether a burial stone? or his children? wife? history?
I had believed this was 'my' ancestor - father of Joseph of Bracky.
Thank you for any help
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looking to find out more about Daniel McIvor who died 14 June 1870 and a 'Sarah' Mcivor (doesn't say whether wife or daughter or ?) present at death. He was 66 and a farmer.
I am looking for any more information - whether a burial stone? or his children? wife? history?
I had believed this was 'my' ancestor - father of Joseph of Bracky.
Thank you for any help
Did you mean to post this elsewhere? or is your query connected to this thread somehow?
There is a townland called Bracky in co. Tyrone but it's not near Lissan-
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/termonmaguirk/bracky/
Added- I see that you've a few other topics on the McIvors- best to stick to 1 topic to avoid confusion-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757890.msg6080663#msg6080663
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757886.msg6080629#msg6080629
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Yes, my post was meant to be here. The Daniel McIvor who died 14 June 1870 was from Lissan - according to his death information and I'm trying to find out more since I thought he was 'my' Daniel. He might or might not be. Eliminating him is helpful too
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The only close match for that death that I can find at the moment is this Daniel McIver- Omagh registration district
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/15999518551373
There is a death for a Sarah McIver, age 64, in 1879-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/57637c15722948
It looks like this is the Lissan townland that you should be looking for (south of Omagh)- not the one in Lissan Parish near Cookstown.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/drumragh/lissan/
Best to stick to your own thread rather than muddling up this one on another family from another Lissan.
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I'm not intending to muddle up anything. Who would have thought there would be two 'Lissan's' in one county!
So the death certificate I bought might be 'my' Daniel from Bracky afterall. I will check. This Omagh Lissan is only 12 miles from Bracky.
Thanks for your help
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Lissan
Drumragh Parish http://www.logainm.ie/ga/64581
Clonfeacle Parish http://www.logainm.ie/en/63756
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I'm not intending to muddle up anything. Who would have thought there would be two 'Lissan's' in one county!
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In Ireland it's not at all uncommon the find the same names used over and over again with duplication of townland names in the same county. In futute you can check somewhere like this site to see the county, PLU (usually same as registration district), civil parish, etc.
http://www.thecore.com/seanruad/
or here to see several Lissans in Co. Tyrone-
https://www.townlands.ie/search/?q=lissan
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Re Daniel McIvor: Have you seen this document? I've (hopefully) attached two pages. Although it was specific to an Archibald McIvor, if you look closely (especially at the messy second page), it describes the family of John and Ann McIvor of Bracky, including son Daniel (born c. 1836). John was supposedly born around 1811 and Ann around 1823 (which likely means that Ann is a second wife, since she'd have been underage when the first three children were born, including (probably) Daniel.
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Yes, I have seen these documents but I feel I'm missing something. Is one a fragment from 1851 census?
There seem to be three lists.
A John and Jane in ? 1851??
Then John and Ann with children labelled as post 1851.
What is the date near the Archibald file? It looks like 20 (or is it /70')?
I have this John as:
Anne Armstrong
23 Jan 1855 • Sixmilecross, Tyrone, Northern Ireland
20 years bachelor farmer Brackey. Father: HUGH McIVOR (decd) farmer & ANNE ARMSTRONG 17 years spinster Brackey. Father: JAMES ARMSTRONG farmer Witnesses: WILLIAM FULTON & DENNIS WARD
1830–1868
John McIvor
1866–
Christian (a) McIvor
1868–
Spouse and children
Jane Morrow
17 Jan 1871 • Sixmilecross, Tyrone, Northern Ireland
He widowed and she spinster. Farmer of Brackey, son of Hugh McIver -farmer
Hugh McIvor
1872–1945
Edward McIvor
1873–1930
Sarah Jane McIvor
1874–
Margaret Jane McIvor
I have this John and Ann ... as the son of Hugh, brother of 'my' Daniel.
I have just read a history that has my Daniel as married twice - to an Elizabeth Ross and a Martha ???
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I have this John as:
Anne Armstrong
23 Jan 1855 • Sixmilecross, Tyrone, Northern Ireland
20 years bachelor farmer Brackey. Father: HUGH McIVOR (decd) farmer & ANNE ARMSTRONG 17 years spinster Brackey. Father: JAMES ARMSTRONG farmer Witnesses: WILLIAM FULTON & DENNIS WARD
Presumably you mean this marriage ???
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09498/5442203.pdf
At Drumnakilly Parish Church. Both living in the townland of Brackey [sic], civil parish of Termonmaguirk.
***Edited to Add***
For Bracky townland (townlands.ie), see reply #6
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What is the date near the Archibald file? It looks like 20 (or is it /70')?
Date of receipt : 6/12/20 (1920)
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There are two documents involved here, both of which appear related to Archie McIver's application for an Irish pension in 1920. Archie had emigrated to the U.S. around 1869, but later returned to Ireland (perhaps to apply for the pension). One document is a 1920 "Extract from Census Return of 1851), available at https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/109933:70792?tid=&pid=&queryId=4369750c63845bcc419a96de3c25dce9&_phsrc=NWS18485&_phstart=successSource. One is the Church of Ireland form I sent yesterday, which is also available at https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/2651:62061?tid=&pid=&queryId=748f0c283cc2e646a110b4d8d1daf45c&_phsrc=NWS18478&_phstart=successSource. The latter document appears to be drawn from parish records of the CofI church in Drumnakelly. Taken together, the documents outline a McIvor family in Bracky consisting of John (1811), Ann (1823), Jane (1832), Daniel (1836), Thomas (1841), Betta (Elizabeth?) (1843), John (1845), Archibald (1847), James (1851), Robert (1853), James again (1856), perhaps indicating the earlier James died in childhood, Hugh (1858) and Margaret (1861). Some of these ages from which the birth years are drawn appear on the 1851 census document, but the parish record add a bunch more, which I assume came from baptism records I have been unable to find anywhere else. Hugh, on a form filled out later in life, gave his mother's maiden name as Ann Cameron. The ages of some of the children weigh against Ann being their mother; there's a five-year break in the kids' ages which may indicate the death of a first wife after Daniel and Ann's arrival as a mother with Thomas. That is highly speculative.
My interest in this is John (1845), who I think was my great-grandfather. My grandfather was named Archie, which would make the Archie in this family unit his uncle. Several other names repeat in my grandfather's generation. Interestingly, both Archies wound up in the Philadelphia area.
At this point I am mainly looking for evidence DISPROVING my theory that this John McIvor is my great-grandfather. He doesn't appear in Ireland again, that I can find, so the main possibility that would exclude him for my purposes would be emigration.
If anyone knows of a way to access the Church of Ireland records in Drumnakelly, that would be helpful.
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One document is a 1920 "Extract from Census Return of 1851), available at https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/109933:70792?tid=&pid=&queryId=4369750c63845bcc419a96de3c25dce9&_phsrc=NWS18485&_phstart=successSource.
Also available on the NAI 1841 / 1851 Census Search Forms website (free).
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/home.jsp
Archiebald McIvor
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/details.jsp?id=58754
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246701/007246701_00424.pdf
The latter document appears to be drawn from parish records of the CofI church in Drumnakelly.
Think you mean Drumnakilly!
Drumnakilly townland in the civil parish of Termonmaguirk (Upper Strabane portion).
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-upper/termonmaguirk-upper-strabane-portion/drumnakilly/drumnakilly/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4678938#map=12/54.6170/-7.1761
If anyone knows of a way to access the Church of Ireland records in Drumnakelly, that would be helpful.
PRONI Guide to Church Records
See Termonmaguirk, Co. Tyrone in the below church records link (page 361)-
Church of Ireland, Drumnakilly (Armagh diocese)
[Earliest records destroyed in Dublin]
Baptisms and burials, 1877-;
Marriages, 1845-. In local custody
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide-to-Church-Records-October-2019.pdf
Drumnakilly Parish Church on Facebook.
https://m.facebook.com/people/Drumnakilly-Parish-Church/100064411043254/