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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: lindaswe on Tuesday 05 February 13 02:55 GMT (UK)
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hi i am trying to locate john & mary (nee) ryan i found them on the 1891 census john was born in larnark cannot make out where mary was born i know they had 3 kids roger, elizabeth, & gavin mcdonald who was adopted & there was a father rodger who was born in ireland not sure if he is john father or mary could be mary regards lin
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hi lindaswe,
when you say you cannot make out where born, are you reading it from an original transcript etc, what does it look like ?
If you give a wee bit more info I am in no doubt the guys and oops the gals on here will work out and point you in the right direction.
scott
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hi scott it looks like mary feeney (nee) ryan was born in linlithgowshire but not sure can you help regards lin
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Hi,
I am sure the others may correct me if I am wrong but Linlithgowshire was the County of West Lothian until circa: 1921
hope this helps, is there no other info you can gleen from the document ?
Scott
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Hello Lin,
Here is the 1881. census for what looks like your people.
Address Bairds Row, Blantyre, Lanark.
John Feeney, Head, Coal Miner, M. age 25 years, M. born Buckburn, Linlithgow,
Mary Feeney, Wife, M. age 25 years, F. born Whifflet, Lanark,
Roger Feeney, Son, age 2 years, M. born Blantyre, Lanark,
Roger Feeney, Father, Coal miner, W. age 67 years, M. born Sligo, Ireland.
You will find that although the name is correctly spelt on this census, you will most likely find when you try to find this name Feeney, on the Scottish Records, at Scotlandspeople, you will have lots of variations on the spelling which you will perhaps find difficult to believe.
Regards,Jonn.
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Hi Lin
The 1891 entry you mention as having seen:
John Feeney 34 miner b. Lanarkshire
Mary Feeney 34 b. Linlithgowshire
Rodger Feeney 11
Elizabeth Feeney 8
Rodger Feeney 69 miner b. Ireland
Gavin McDonald 8 Months
Address: Napiers Sq, Holytown/Bothwell
From this, looks like Rodger was John's father.
As Jonn mentions, you are going to have fun and games most like with the Feeney surname. One of those things in those times, with spellings (what spellings :P).
Have you found the marriage cert for John and Mary on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ? This is the best way to confirm the names for John and Mary's parents and from there go back to their families and histories.
Keep this 1871 census entry in mind for John, once you get more info:
Rodger Furie 60 general lab. b. Ireland
Ann Furie 54 b. Ireland
Peter Furie 19 Coal Miner b. Bathgate, West Lothian
John Furie 17 Coal Miner b. Bathgate, West Lothian
Bridget Mccue 4 grandchild b. Bathgate
William Baxter 24 brother ( ??? maybe boarder) Mason's Labourer b. Paisley, Renfrewshire
Address: 5 Great Russel St, Bathgate, West Lothian
Monica
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Following Jonn's advice and being liberal on spellings, I think this might be John in 1861 with family. Nancy and Ann are first name variants (another point to remember!), see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=nancy
Possible for 1861:
Rodger Fury 50, Pit Labourer b. Ireland
Nancy Fury 47 b. Ireland
Peter Fury 9 b. Bathgate
John Fury 6 b Bathgate
Thomas Mccue 25 son in law, coal miner b. Ireland
Mary Mccue/Fury 26 b. Stirling, Stirlingshire
John Mccue 5 grandson b. Stirling
James McAughine 36 lodger
James Rainey 35 lodger
James White 30 lodger
Peter Lions 18 lodger
James Mc Darimons 41 lodger
Address: North Bridge St, Bathgate
Monica
PS: :-\ worries me that in earlier censuses we have Bathgate as a possible birth place but then Lanarkshire....
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Possible death record for the father
1898 FEENEY ROGER aged 68 at BELLSHILL /LANARK
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hi thankyou everyone your info was very helpful looks like we are on he right trackbut i cannot find a marriage for john & mary in the scotlands people i have tried a few variations do not know what else to do if you can help me it would be great regards lin
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I am sure the others may correct me if I am wrong but Linlithgowshire was the County of West Lothian until circa: 1921
The historic names of Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Edinburghshire (Midlothian), Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Forfarshire (Angus) and Elginshire (Moray) were restored by Act of Parliament in 1928, the change taking effect in 1929.
Buckburn, Linlithgow
Could this be a misreading of Whitburn? Have you see the original?
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Hello Lin,
I searched for a marriage of John, and Mary, using lots of variations, with little success.
I think your best bet would be finding the births of young Roger, or Elizabeth.
If you go by the 1881 census i provided the couple are in Blantyre, Lanark, in that census, there is a birth of a Elizabeth Feeney, that spelling 1883. Blantyre, Lanark, which would fit age wise for your Elizabeth, its a gamble maybe worth trying, that birth would provide parents names and should also provide parents date and Place of marriage.
There is also a possible birth for young Roger, 1879. Holytown, Lanark, with the surname coming up as Finlay, could possibly be the register mistakenly writing down Finlay, instead of Feeney, another gamble.
By 1901 census the family are in Bellshill, Lanark, now that is where the death of Roger Feeney, is 1898. although his age is well out how many Roger Feeney's, are there in Scotland at that time well worth a look as it should provide his wifes maiden name and parents provided whoever registered it knew that info, but i would wager a bet his son John Feeney, most likely did.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Buckburn, Linlithgow
Could this be a misreading of Whitburn? Have you see the original?
Hi,
There is a Bellsburn in Linlithgow, but also in West Lothian/Linlithgowshire there is a Blackburn and Broxburn,so there is quite a choice of misreading names.
Tom
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hi i have the birth certificate for elizabeth and it tells me that john feeney & mary (nee) ryan were married november 1878 in wigtownshire still cannot find a marriage for them hope you can help me regards lin
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Hi all,
Lin sister here again. Lin I got a copy of the birth of Elizabeth and it looks to me like 1878 November 11th Whitburn. Look again and see what you think.
Sue
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Hello Lin, and Sue,
As i said in my early post you would have trouble with the spelling of the surname Feeney, on Scotlandspeople, well when you look at the census records the family gave different areas of births for themselves so taking the exact place of marriage from young Elizabeth Feeney's, birth certificate may not be correct.
Here is a possible marriage going by the 1861. and 1871 census.provided by Monica, the Feeney's or Furies, were living in West Lothian. there is a marriage for a John Feeny, and a Mary Rhi* 1878. Fauldhouse, West Lothian. This is the only marriage of a John Feeney, to a Mary, with surname starting with R. in the year 1878.
It may be worth a gamble to have a look at this particular certificate, to clarify if this John's, father is Roger.
Regards,
Jonn.
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hi john i took a gamble & looked at the marriage certificate & found it was the right one rodger feeney is john father so i guess i am off to ireland now becase rodger & his wife were born there thankyou for all your help regards lin
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hi john by the i forgot to tell you that mary is mary rhind & john father rodger his is mary cant read surname just asking a stupid question in the 1871 cesus she is ann 1861 she is nancy how do you get mary out of these names regards lin
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Hello Lin,
I take it you mean Rodger Feeney's, wifes name is Mary, something on John Feeney, and Mary Rhind's, marriage certificate, if that is the case then its most likely a simple error made by John Feeney, when the information was given to the register these things happened quite a lot.
If the writing on the marriage certificate is poor and your are finding it difficult to read other parts, then there is a facility on Scotlandspeople, where you can ask them for a improved image of the certificate.
The other way to possibly find out Rodger Feeney's wifes name plus his parents names is to purchase Rodger Feeney's death certificate, the death seems to have occurred as Roger Feeney, 1898. Bellshil, Lanark, age 68 years, that spelling, i know his age at death is out going by the census reports but again thats not unusual, remember these are very unusual names Roger, and Feeney.
Finally if you find out Mary Rhind or Ryan's, parents names then post them on here as Mary, keeps stating on the census she is born in Scotland then its most likely her parents lived and possibly died here.
Regards
Jonn.
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hi john before i get rodger death cert, i am going to put john feeney /mary rhind (ryan) marriage cert on decipher on roots chat & see if they can make surname of both mothers as i cannt find site on scotlands people wll keep you informed thanks for all your help regards lin
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Lin, could this be Mary Rhind's birth details? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQS9-P4V
Father I think died, mother Elizabeth likely remarried here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY75-692
I thought this might be Mary in 1861:
James Shields 40, miner b. Ireland
Elizabeth Shields 26 b. Ireland
Mary Rhine 4 step daughter b. Whitburn
Bridget Shields 70 mother b. Ireland
Peter Clark 17 lodger
Michael Monney 20 lodger
Address: Fauldhouse Rows, Whitburn West Lothian
The marriage cert will sort things out hopefully!
Monica
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Hello Lin, and Monica,
Yes Monica, i had those details about Mary Rhind, i was beggining to question Mary's, exact surname Rhind, or Ryan.
There is a death for a Mary Rhind Feeney, 1934. Bellshill, Lanark, age 77 years, which is almost correct age wise plus the Feeney's, ended up living in Bellshill, Lanark.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Hello Lin, and Monica,
The mystery of the Rhind/Ryan, surname deepens.
We have this death on Scotlandspeople,
Elizabeth Brannan Shields, died 1885. age 61 years, Holytown, Lanark, then
Elizabeth Ryan Brannan, died 1885. age 61 years, Holytown, Lanark.
As you know Monica, if a married woman has been married twice then there will be two indexes for the death concerning both marriages but only one certificate.
This may prove your point about Mary's mother marrying Mr. Shields, after first husband Patrick Rhind, died.
I think also for the usual reason Elizabeth Brannon, told porkies about her age on the 1861 census.
There is also a death 1857. Livingston, West Lothian, for a Patrick Rhind, age 34 years which would fit in better with the age theory.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Jonn, I think they probably went under the general variant banner of Rhind/Ryan perhaps.
Odd about the two death entries for Elizabeth Brannan - I wonder if it is the same reference which would normally indicate it is the same entry in the register.
From some online info, Elizabeth's birth is given as 1833 in Queens Co ireland greenburn - source not given unfortunately.
Ahh...they also have a copy of Elizabeth's death in 1885:
Elizabeth Brannan, wife of 1. Patrick Ryan and 2. James Shields. Her parents a Daniel (saw Dennis on other things) Brannan and Elizabeth Nash. Husband James Shields reported the death.
I think this is the extended Shiels family in 1881 (Mary married by now):
James Shields 45 miner b. Ireland
Eliza Brennan 46 miner b. Irealnd
Edward Shields 19
James Shields 16
Agnes Shields 11
Denis Shields 10
John Shields 8
Ellen Shields 6
Thomas Ryan 23 son coal miner b. Blackburn, Linlithgow...wonder he was ealier?
James Foley 20 boarder coal miner b. Kilkenny, Ireland
Address: 18 School Rows, Faulhouse, Whitburn
Monica
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New variant to add to the collection of Ryan and Rhind etc. Marriage for Elizabeth Brannan to Patrick RAIN ::) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYW2-MMY
Monica
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Hello Lin, and Monica,
Young Thomas Rhind, born 27/Oct/1857, Livingston, West Lothian, to parents Patrick Rhind, and Elis Brannon.
Its all fitting together quite nicely, including marriage you found, the spelling does not seem that out.
So it looks like Rhind, is a fair bet for the surname. or is it.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Hi Its Sue again Im doing this for Lin as she does not know how to do it. I thought I would put it here as you have done a great job. If you cannot read it also I can put it on decipher. My husband thinks Mary Feeney maiden name is Carabine and he found a birth for John 19 Aug 1856 father Roger mother Mary Kerribyne so dont know if it is right. Anyway here is the image hope it works.
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Hello Sue,
Certainly looks like Mary Carabine, the birth you found for John, 1856, again looks correct, you have to remember that its Irish, folks we are talking about its the Nineteenth Century, most ordinary people could neither read or write in Scotland, the register who is writing this down on the certificates is going by the person relaying the information verbally to them with a Irish, dialect, so there would be lots of variations in the spelling.
There is a death for a Mary Carabine Feenie, 1873. age 58 years Holytown, Lanark.
The Parents of Mary Rhind, on the certificate you posted are Patrick Rhind, which is correct going by our research, her mother is Elizabeth, which is correct, her maiden name is difficult to read but it looks to start Br***n, some of our other posters will come on and give a response, however i think its a version of Brannon.
The only thing that i would question is why this lady is mentioned as Ann, and Nancy, on to of the earlier census reports.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Hi All,
I went for Carabine and Brown as the Maiden names.
Tom
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thankyou john for all you help i have the death cert, for mary feeney & it says husbond rodger her parents are james carabine & mother bridget maiden name cant read looks like meeham but not sure both were deceased at her death not sure where they were born searched scotland & ireland but cant find anything you guys have been so terrific & i thankyou all regards lin :)