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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 21:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 21:44 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I am researching my family tree, and have found that in 1891 one of my ancestors, Augusta Darling nee. Wettwer ran a pub in Blyth. It was classed as Newsham, and South Blyth at the time.
The pub, I believe was called Lord Nelson Inn, Dock House or more locally known as Nelson's place. The address it was situated was no. 14 High Quay.
I have managed to find a photo in a book about the history of Blyth, but it only shows houses, stating the pub was nearby.
It would be great if anyone has anymore info, maybe there's a list of landlord/ladies, maybe a photo of this pub! Or, if anyone has any info regarding the family it would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you in advance!!
Shlee  :)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 21:50 GMT (UK)

hi there welcome to rootschat ...... :)

just as something totally outside the realm of matters to be.....

have you used google maps,   and gone to the street view......   sometimes the buildings are still there.....   sometimes they aint.... but its fun anyway...

 :)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 21:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Fastfusion

Yeah I have looked, but it's changed so much since.
I think it has been demolished. But, thanks for suggesting!!  ;D
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:14 GMT (UK)
I am seeing a marriage of  an Auguste Wettwer September quarter of  1872 Registered at Sunderland Durham 10a 778
to either John Layton /Gifford Hunter/George Austin
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:18 GMT (UK)
Augusta's husband was Mowbray Darling.
It shows on the 1891 census that she was the head of household when she had the pub.
I think they split up before 1891, but then Mowbray died 1895 aged 52.

Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:22 GMT (UK)
1891 England Census  suggests
Augusta Darling [Augusta Wettwer]  aged 36 born abt 1855 as the head whose mother was Mathilda Wettwes
was born in Hambury, Germany
being at  Blyth Northumberland
in the registration district of Tynemouth

Piece 4237 Folio 22 p40
suggests
Augusta Darling aged 36
Augusta Darling aged 12
John Darling aged 11
Ernest Darling aged 9
William Darling aged 5
Alice Darling aged 3
Olaf Darling aged 1

other folk in the property on the census night were
Mathilda Wettwes aged 53
Emma Hatfield aged 20
Herbert Hatfield aged 1
William Gregory aged 25
Thomas Williams aged 26
Thomas Florence aged 18
William Teumans aged 36
William Dawley aged 23
Thomas Homsley aged 23
Robert Rose aged 30
Charles Cooper aged  20
John Hagan aged 28
Isabella Williamsaged  19
Jane William aged 17
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:23 GMT (UK)
so these two entries in family search.org belong to Mobray>

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J9LG-WQX
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXCT-54G
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:25 GMT (UK)
All info is correct. They are my ancestors.

Now, I'm looking for a photo of that pub.
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:28 GMT (UK)
Olaf Hansen Darling had his birth registered at  Tynemouth  10b 281 in June quarter of 1889 and unfortunately died aged 22  registered at South Shields in the December quarter of 1911 10 907
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: fastfusion on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:29 GMT (UK)
Have you considered contacting the County Archives....?

 :)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 30 January 13 22:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you for everything you've found so far.

I will definatley check that link out!!
 :)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Michael Dixon on Friday 01 February 13 00:25 GMT (UK)
shlee,

 From my list of Blyth/Cowpen/Newsham pubs, I see that Lord Nelson was opened
in 1819 and closed in 1936. Landlord in 1879 was a Robert Taylor.

Over recent years, many local history books have been published on Blyth,
which have included many old photos, including pubs. But I have never seen
photo on the Lord Nelson.

The pub was on the quay, not an attractive part of town!

See it's position on map via link below.....
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005986FS.htm

( 1897 Ordnance Survey map- Just east from the Gas Works-
the street High Quay is parallel to river edge, street Nelson Place
 is at right angles to High Quay Pub marked P.H.)

Michael
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Friday 01 February 13 07:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael
Thats great!!
I will check out the map. The pub was known to locals as Nelson's Place, must have been on the corner?
If it was, I think I know the site, its a corner plot but has been demolished. I wonder if it was there.

Thank you,
Ashleigh
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Michael Dixon on Friday 01 February 13 09:30 GMT (UK)
 Ashleigh,

 The north gable end was directly adjacent to the dry dock in the shipyard.
  The east front was directly adjacent to the river itself.

  http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/006993FS.htm
 This link shows photo of the building and graving ( i.e. scraping) docks in
1930 from the north side of river.  Unfortunately the quality of photo is
very poor. The Lord Nelson would have been just to theleft of the left-hand side
dock .
 Michael
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Friday 01 February 13 12:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael,

excellent! Thanks for that info!
I'm slowly but surely getting closer to the photo!! But I'm grateful so far!!
Great stuff!!
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: AlisdairGB on Friday 01 February 13 12:59 GMT (UK)
To give you a sense of the area, there's a long distance photo from 1927 at:-

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw019747 (http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw019747)

I've checked on my books and the inter-webby thing and I can't find anything more.

I'll go to Blyth library and have a search there on Monday
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Friday 01 February 13 17:22 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the link.
Its difficult to find anything on it!
Thank you
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Michael Dixon on Friday 01 February 13 18:38 GMT (UK)

 Ashleigh,

 With Alisdair's foto you are getting closer to image of the Lord Nelson.
 But still some way to go !

  The three graving docks on the foto, the one on right-hand size- adjacent to
  it's top right is the Lord Nelson.

Michael

 
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Friday 01 February 13 19:25 GMT (UK)
Yeah Michael, You have both been extremely helpful so far!!
I'm gonna have a good look at that photo from above.

I feel I'm getting closer. Just would be great to find an actual picture too!!

 :) ;D
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Friday 01 February 13 19:34 GMT (UK)
(http://)
Michael/Alisdair

Could you try and clarify if this is the building. I've gone by a map I already had.
(I hope it has worked, first time I've tried posing a photo)
Thank you,
Ashleigh  ;D
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Michael Dixon on Friday 01 February 13 22:35 GMT (UK)
Ashleigh,

  I have thrown in another map ( 1920 Ordnance Survey)  which might make comparisons easier.
  Use the 50/100/150% enlargements for best effect. By 1920 the two graving docks have become three- as shown on your foto.

 I think the Lord Nelson building is about 3/4 buildings to the left of your arrow ! See the "P.H." annotation on the map.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/006635FS.htm
 
Michael
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Saturday 02 February 13 07:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your help in locating it on the map!! PH must mean public house! (sorry, it does take me a while)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: AlisdairGB on Saturday 02 February 13 12:13 GMT (UK)
I have a chart of the Harbour area which although not showing the pub ( it's a chart for those on the water )  shows the High Quay as one end of the "Mid Ferry " , or "Middle Ferry"

You may wish to search for that in case the Lord Nelson is on the photos

The 1897 OS map is available as a reproduction from Alan Godfrey Maps, and does show the PH on the High Quay. (They're available on Ebay and well worth adding to your family history projects! )

I went down that way this morning and the area appears to be closed off now , a few yards north of the High Quay / Quay Rd junction. However I know the guy who owns the security company who guard the area, I'll contact him to see if I can get access to check if any of the area remains from the "old days"
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Saturday 02 February 13 17:59 GMT (UK)
Alisdair,
that is great stuff!!
I will do a search on that.
It would be great if you could find out if he knows anything, or if theres anything to give clues!

Thanks again
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: AlisdairGB on Sunday 03 February 13 11:28 GMT (UK)
I went down this morning and there appears to be no sign of the previous buildings, or even the kerb!  The modern building appears to have been built over the High Quay road as well as any buildings . It wasn't even worth taking any photos I'm afraid.

I'll still go down to the library tomorrow to see if I can find anything there
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Sunday 03 February 13 12:48 GMT (UK)
Ah thats a real shame Alisdair, but thanks for going. They change things so dramatically! The only building there is the breweries and only because they are luxury flats or something! Cheers!
(no pun intended!! ha)
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: AlisdairGB on Monday 04 February 13 13:05 GMT (UK)
I spent a couple of hours in Blyth library this morning. I wasn't able to find any photos, but did find a list of the licensees of the pub from 1827 to 1900. Your relative, Augusta Darling was the licensee from 1888 to 1891. ( I can transcribe the list if you want?)

The building closed as a pub in the 1930s and was used as a "Lodging House" thereafter

And thereby lies a possible line of search for photos ... it was damaged in a air raid at 4:45 am on 16th February 1941 ( and demoished soon after) You may find photos un newspaper archives on the inter-web. Maybe Woodhorn* might have something? (I'm going up there in a couple of weeks, I'll check for you)

I'll keep looking, it's as much curiosity on my behalf as anything else. 

(*) Northumberland County Records office ...http://www.experiencewoodhorn.com/collections/
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 13:42 GMT (UK)
I haven't been on the forum for a few weeks now, but Michael Dixon sent me a message asking that I check my picture collection for you. It is good news too. I have two pictures which show the pub, though sadly not very clearly.

The pub was at the northern most end of the High Quay and adjacent to the Graving Docks. So one would have had to turn left at the end of Nelson Place to get to it. I have marked the pub with the pink arrow in the first image, and the red line marks Nelson Place.

The second image taken from a very old book (out of copyright now) shows the pub and you can just make out the name Lord Nelson on the front.

If the original poster sends me a private message with their email address I will send copies of these gladly.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 13:45 GMT (UK)
And image two........

Sadly I have had to markedly reduce the size of the image so that it can be added to the forum, so the name Lord Nelson is no longer readable.

Philip
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 14:09 GMT (UK)
I have had a fiddle and cropped out the important bit for you. You can just make out Lord Nelson Hotel above the door. This image should print off nicely on A4 glossy.

Philip
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 14:29 GMT (UK)
Rummaging a bit more I have come across a photo' of the Graving Docks with the cleared area that the pub stood on in shot. Taken from the top of the Gas Works in the early 1960s, whilst the staiths were still in use. The red telephone box marks the location of the Mid Ferry crossing.

Philip
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 17:14 GMT (UK)
Not wanting to hi-jack the subject matter here, but Nelson Place also had a bit of a character living there at one time. Willie Horn, a Cobbler who was also an evangelist. Perhaps visitors to the Lord Nelson if it existed then, got admonished by him for their sinful and ungodly ways!

http://www.victorianblyth.co.uk/horn.htm

P

Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Monday 04 February 13 17:47 GMT (UK)
Ahhh!!! Excellent!
That is brill. I'm so chuffed!!
Thank you!!!
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Monday 04 February 13 17:50 GMT (UK)
Thats loads of great info!!
Thank you so much for these pics!
It sound daft but it kind of completes a little chapter!
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 17:52 GMT (UK)
I know exactly what you mean. It is satisfying to be able to identify a location and get to see something of what would have been very familiar surrounds to our ancestors.

You mention in your first post about a Blyth History book and mention of Nelson Place. Which one was it?

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 18:01 GMT (UK)
As for a modern view of the scene, this is a photo I took on 10th February 2012 from the opposite side of the river. The tall white column marks the location of the pub. How things change with the passage of time.

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Monday 04 February 13 18:12 GMT (UK)
Thank you i will check out your link.
Yeah, that book was called Blyth i think. you can get all different areas by same people.
it has a school class on front i think?
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 04 February 13 19:02 GMT (UK)
In the Blyth book you mention with the school children on the front, if you turn to page 87, the top picture is of the Tug Spout and the High Quay. The Lord Nelson is out of shot to the right, but it gives you an overall impression of what the street was like circa 1925 from the opposite side of the river. I think the other picture and mention of the Lord Nelson, is the picture of the Tug Spout on page 18.

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Monday 04 February 13 19:17 GMT (UK)
Ah yes,
i did take copies as i had to return the book. i will take another look at those pics too.
Thank you for looking in the book!
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Wednesday 06 February 13 21:37 GMT (UK)
One last request, please can you amend the subject title to Blyth Lord Nelson Inn etc. I only ask so that any other Blyth folk who come in on the thread later will pick up on it being a Blyth subject and not miss it as it slowly sinks down the board. Ta very much. Also, when anyone Googles those words it will show up high in the list. I'd love more of the Blyth folk to have input on this one, even some months down the line from now. You just never know who's out there looking. It might just answer their own questions or bring more info to the 'table'.

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Wednesday 06 February 13 21:49 GMT (UK)
ok will do,
I will have to work it out... ???
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: Phodgetts on Thursday 07 February 13 19:23 GMT (UK)
If you struggle, I am sure the Moderator (sillgen) will do it for you if asked nicely.  ;D

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place
Post by: shlee on Thursday 07 February 13 19:29 GMT (UK)
I will ask as i have no clue!! Ha
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: Phodgetts on Thursday 07 February 13 23:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you, whoever did it!  ;)

P
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: cuddys girl on Sunday 06 November 22 18:31 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for all the information on this thread. 
My 3xg grandfather was at 9 Nelson Place on the 1901 census, and died there the same year, age 91.  His name was John Legg(e). 
Small world that I have found out so much about his residence, plus a photo of his street and a precise map of the location!
I too appreciate all the effort gone into finding this information, albeit 9 years after the initial post.
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: Phodgetts on Monday 07 November 22 02:11 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for all the information on this thread. 
My 3xg grandfather was at 9 Nelson Place on the 1901 census, and died there the same year, age 91.  His name was John Legg(e). 
Small world that I have found out so much about his residence, plus a photo of his street and a precise map of the location!
I too appreciate all the effort gone into finding this information, albeit 9 years after the initial post.

Hello and welcome to Rootschat. I'm glad that after such a long time has passed by, the info is still useful to people researching the area.

If you're interested, make an online search for Rootschat Blyth or Rootschat Cowpen and see what pops up, there is a lot of information and images available. Sadly a number of the Northumberland participants have passed away, so it seems much quieter here these days.

Best wishes

Philip

PS this is another page about Blyth from the time I was growing up during the 1970s. Sadly the creator of the website passed away, so the whole website is now dormant.

https://davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com/pages/david-heys-steam-diesel-photo-collection-83-cowpen-blyth-history-1
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: cuddys girl on Monday 07 November 22 19:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you Philip.  That's a really interesting history of Blyth.
I have been collecting local history books on Blyth for quite a few years now, they never fail to fascinate.  Every time I read something either online or in print, I always seem to find something new to me.  Blyth is full of little surprises!

Susan
Title: Re: Lord Nelson Inn (Dock House), or known as Nelson's place in Blyth
Post by: emmadog on Friday 18 November 22 23:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Phillip, I have just been reading this post and have come across your page of when you were growing up in the seventies. I was wondering if I could use a copy of pic with vulcan on it? My interest is one of the last Vulcans has been based for a number of years at Doncaster Sheffield airport which is currently under threat of closure. #Save DSA fb group are using the vulcan as a heritage issue as part of the campaign and would be interested in your photo and comments.
Please delete if not appropriate.
Thanks.