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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: ruth60 on Sunday 27 January 13 17:21 GMT (UK)

Title: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: ruth60 on Sunday 27 January 13 17:21 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me please with some guidelines into searching for Irish records.  I have recently found a birth in Scotland for a Mary Clarke, born 1855 in Renfrewshire - her parents were Hugh Clarke and Julia Higgins, giving information that they were married near Dublin in June 1854.
It gives both their birth places as Co.Dublin.   I have been unable to find a marriage for them but have found a baptism for Julia Higgins in Baldoyle, Co. Dublin in 1835. 

Also Hugh Clark's death record in Scotland in 1879, gives his father's name as Philip but does not give a mother's name.  I estimated that he would have been born around 1827.  Is there any way I might find out his mother's name to help fill in some missing information?

I have found out quite a lot of information from the Scottish records but I would be very grateful if someone could point me in the right direction with the Irish ones.  In the census records place of birth is only given as Ireland in most of them so finding a birth records with the parents place of birth has been, I hope a bit of a breakthrough.

Many thanks for any help.

Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 27 January 13 17:22 GMT (UK)
to get you started see :

  Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
  My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)

Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 27 January 13 17:38 GMT (UK)
The two important details you require are denomination, and a detailed location i.e. parish or town (assuming somewhere outside the city) - Co. Dublin covers quite a few parishes and congregations, not all of which have records back to the 1820s or 30s, and in some cases not far as back as 1854. It's also important to bear in mind that not all the available records are online..

non-Catholic marriages were included in Civil records from 1845, so if that applies it helps as civil records are more detailed than RC marriages.

Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: ruth60 on Monday 28 January 13 18:26 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your reply.  I'm pretty sure it would be RC records.  I searched on the Irish geneology site for Hugh Clark or Clarke, father named Philip.  There was only one baptism record in the Dublin area, in Rathfarnham for a Hugh Clarke born 1827, father Philip, mother Elizabeth but no maiden name given.  I'm not sure how to cross check that this would be the correct record. 
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 28 January 13 18:40 GMT (UK)
normally you would need a few more details to confirm if that's the correct Hugh Clarke - e.g. a more detailed place of birth (e.g. town or parish), some details of siblings, or his mother's name from a death cert etc

As mentioned earlier not all parishes have records back to the 1820s, and not all parishes are online, so there could be other possible matches not available or recorded.

Baldoyle in North County Dublin, Rathfarnham is in South Co. Dublin.


S.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 28 January 13 18:50 GMT (UK)
pity there's no sign of the marriage of Hugh and Julia on IrishGenealogy or RootsIreland, as that would be a more certain connection and at least would give you a more accurate starting location...  being a more recent record it's more likely to be available than the baptisms

p.s. do you have a death cert for Julia - if so does it show any details of her parents ?


S.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: msbonbon65 on Tuesday 05 February 13 04:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Ruth60,

I found out that there are 2 couples name Philip and Elizabeth Clarke in the Dublin South area;

Couple #1 -  Philip Clarke & Elizabeth ? born abt 1795-1799 in Rathfarnham had a son Hugh Clarke born in 1827

Couple #2 - Philip Clarke of Upper Baggot Street & Elizabeth Darling of Charlie Ville Street were married on 7 Oct 1857 Parents: M Clarke  and William Darling, the marriage took place in Rathmines which is near Rathfarnham.  (witness #1 was a Patrick Higgins)

I think the first one is closer to your relatives date wise, hope this is of some help.

Maria
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: ruth60 on Wednesday 13 February 13 13:42 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for your replies. 

I have found a death for Julia on Scotlands People, it gives her father's name as Patrick Higgins, Occupation General Labourer, but frustratingly no mothers name is given.  The informant of the death is her son in law so I am assuming he didn't know the information. 

Unfortunately I don't have details of any siblings of either Julia or Hugh. 

The Hugh Clarke born in 1827, parents Philip and Elizabeth ? does look interesting.

Frances
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 13 February 13 14:26 GMT (UK)
A Philip Clarke, of Kelly's Court, was buried in Glasnevin in Fenruary 1834.

Unfortunately that is too early to get any further information, even age.

There are several other Clarkes in the same grave, but no Elizabeth.

I don't know whereabouts Kelly's Court would have been.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: ruth60 on Friday 15 February 13 00:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply, can I ask how you look up graves at Glasneven, I havent tried that? 
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: pet50ite on Friday 15 February 13 06:41 GMT (UK)
Hi ruth60

If you google Glasnevin Trust then click on tracing your roots. You can enter a name and year (up to 3 either side) and it will give you a list of people within that time span. You can then purchase credits to view the full record which will give you the details of everyone in that grave.
Pet50ite
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 15 February 13 07:02 GMT (UK)
Hi ruth60,

the search at glasnevin can be found here: www.glasnevintrust.ie
then click on Search

but the particular entry I mentioned doesn't give any further details on this Philip, other than that he was from Kelly's Court, as I have already purchased this record to obtain details of a later burial in the same grave.

Do you have addresses (with approx year dates) for any members of this family?

If so, you can check them against the search - best to do so by putting in all (or part of, if it has very variable spelling) the street name, and then, if you find a likely entry, try the number too, separately as punctuation or variable spacing can confuse the matching.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: Jaykim on Sunday 02 June 13 19:43 BST (UK)
Hello
Just googled Julia Higgins and Hugh Clark and noticed your post.  I am wondering if you are willing to share your information with me as they are my 3rd great grandparents.  I am descended from their daughter  Margaret Clark. I am assuming that the Mary Clark who's birth certificate you found must have died before 1864 as they have another daughter called Mary born in 1864.  Researching in Ireland is not easy and can be a bit hit and miss unless you know the exact parish you are looking for plus religion etc.  As i am sure you are aware a lot of the records were destroyed in 1922.  I have used rootsireland.ie to search for records in the past with some success but there is no record of them on this website but that could be down to transcription errors.  I already have death certificates of Julia and Hugh.  I have not looked into anything other than my direct line so far and it is pretty confusing to say the least! I am more than willing to share what I have on this line. 
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 02 June 13 19:49 BST (UK)
....As i am sure you are aware a lot of the records were destroyed in 1922.  I have used rootsireland.ie to search for records in the past with some success but there is no record of them on this website but that could be down to transcription errors. 
....

The family mentioned in earlier posts were RC, and parish records for Catholics were not effected by the 1922 fire as they were not held by the Public Records Office. Civil records are intact but only started in full in 1864.

If the family involved lived in the city then the IrishGenealogy (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/) website would be a better website to start your search.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: Jaykim on Sunday 02 June 13 20:23 BST (UK)
Thanks for the reply. :) I have no documentation stating what religion they were although their daughter did eventually marry in the Church of Scotland.  I will certainly have a look at the website you posted.
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 02 June 13 20:30 BST (UK)
looking back over the earlier posts I think besides the early dates, the problem was that the location was unclear. There was no sign on the marriage for Hugh and Julia which would be the usual starting point, and various different places in the city and county have been mentioned, but not all that close to each other - e.g. Baldoyle in North County Dublin, Rathfarnham in South Co. Dublin etc
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 02 June 13 20:39 BST (UK)
just wondering - could the information about the location of Hugh and Julia's 1854 marriage be inaccurate... and it's possible they actually married in Scotland ?
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: Jaykim on Sunday 02 June 13 20:43 BST (UK)
Thanks again Shane.  I am going to Scotland and will further my research there before I continue with the Irish records.  Hopefully Ruth will get in touch and we can share each others work.  If not I will find it all at scotlandspeople!
Title: Re: Help please finding Dublin family
Post by: ruth60 on Monday 03 June 13 18:29 BST (UK)
Hello, I have sent you a pm, so hopefully I will be able to share the information I have gathered.
I have found a birth for Hugh and Julia's daughter Mary, born Scotland in 1855. The record states her parents marriage as 1854, near Dublin but I have been unable to find a record. I'm pretty sure the family were RC as I have been able to find their baptismal records at St Athanasia RC Church in Carluke.

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