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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Saturday 26 January 13 09:53 GMT (UK)

Title: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Saturday 26 January 13 09:53 GMT (UK)
Hello all,
I realise that Tregeiriog may well have been considered part of  Denbighshire & Montgomoryshire at different times but hoped the post would be okay here.

I have 3 relatives as blacksmiths at Tregeiriog in 1841 & 1851. The 1851 names the place as Rhewl & there are several if not more families said to be at Rhewl, Tregeiriog. Is this the farm Pen Rhewl (still there nowadays) or is it an area found on old maps South of Tregeiriog itself going towards Lllangadwaladr direction?

If anyone knows about the 1850's Ceiriog valley i would love to hear an opinion on this..    :)
Richard

Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 26 January 13 10:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Richard

I had some ancestors from that area and, at one stage, I lived not far away. I've never thought of what Rhewl meant before!  However, looking at the 1851 (Tregeiriog was  a detached part of Llangadwaladr parish), we get the following list of addresses:

Starting - HO107/2499/569/5
Tynrhyd
Rhewl
Shop
Penrhewl
Tanygraig
Rhewl
Rhewl
Tregeiriog
Rhewl
Rhewl
Rhewl
Rhewl
Rhewl
Tyisaf

It seems to suggest the main part of the village to me - so checked and found this:

"Rhewl" probably comes from "yr hewl" or "yr heol" which, in different areas, can mean the street, road, path, passage, sheepfold, farmyard or enclosure.

http://www.forumwales.com/fwforum/viewtopic.php?t=7600&f=45 (http://www.forumwales.com/fwforum/viewtopic.php?t=7600&f=45)

Pen rhewl would (from this) translate as head or top of the street, etc.

Those more proficient in Welsh than I, might have other definitions  :)


brevitas
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 26 January 13 11:21 GMT (UK)
Looking at this map:

http://tinyurl.com/a7r7wow

I would say that the addresses that I mentioned follow the yellow road that leads to the B4500 and across it to Tregeiriog farm


brevitas
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Saturday 26 January 13 13:06 GMT (UK)
Thank s for adding the map link! I also thought that this 'Rhewl' meant the village proper in some way but could only find the references previously mentioned.... the area know as Rhewl I found was heading South towards Rhiwlas, round the base contours of a mountain in that area (with no other recollection & map somewhere on the internet). On a 1901 map of that place I've seen the smithy clearly marked at that crossroads in Tregeiriog proper, on the land next to where the Baptist Church is now. I've no references to show if it is the same smithy shown on the 1851 census though.
cheers
Richard
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Friday 01 February 13 09:25 GMT (UK)
I suppose one definite clue is in the the fact of the place names jumping in & out of Rhewl according to the sequence found on the census list you posted...
That 'might' mean ; Rhewl - in the village proper, then another farm up that road, then back to 'Rhewl' the village proper. The only point about that is you'd find Rhewl all over the shop wouldn't you? I do see a variety of Rhewls mind you but not enough to warrant a place name take-over.

Any Welsh speakers from a hundred odd years ago want to chime in   ;D

R
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 01 February 13 09:35 GMT (UK)
Hi again  :)

As I said in my earlier post, I think it's just the area that clusters around the yellow road on my linked map. If you go to the old maps site http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html and select the 1880 map of Tregeiriog, you'll see that the housing is very much ribboned along that road from Tyn y rhyd and I think it wouldn't go much beyong Tregeiriog Mill.

Ty Issa would be the lower house

brevitas
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 01 February 13 09:55 GMT (UK)
In 1901 at RG13/5206/113/4,  the Smithy House (occupied by Thomas Humphreys) is between the C M Chapel and the Weslyan Chapel. In this year, the only mention of Rhewl (the Street) is in Penrhewl and each house//farm was named individually.

(I've found that in the small Welsh villages that many of my ancestors lived in, 'walking through' the census pages  with a map in hand, is a great help in getting a sense of the place. )


brevitas
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Friday 01 February 13 14:14 GMT (UK)
Much obliged for your input & info too. I also have many relatives buried in Welsh soil.... I say that rather than in a church because I've not found any graves yet. In the 1650s we copped for the surname Isaac after a chap called Isaac ap Edward..... a few years earlier & we'd have been an Edwards family, a few years later we'd have been Evans or Thomas. Not so unusual once you get used to the idea I suppose.
 Thanks again, have a good weekend!
Richard
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 01 February 13 19:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Richard

Have you ever visited Tregeiriog?

brevitas

Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Friday 01 February 13 19:49 GMT (UK)
hello brevitas,
yes I have visited Tregeiriog once, I remember the old farm down the road at the crossroads & another up the other direction. There was the baptist chapel & a few chairs to sit on. I went back up the main road to the graveyard a bit out of the village but it's too modern for my lot to be there... We drove past Tregeiriog farm & had a crazy ride up & over the hill where you get to the shot out sign post where you turn right to go off to Langadwaladr. It's anyone's guess what the farmer thought might he had seen us. What I remember most is when the sun shot through the thick cloud & back for hours on end... a sort of light & grim show but the light part was fantastic on those hill sides.
I'll be going back one day & I hope to stay around the area this time for a longer period than the last 'quick stop'.
R
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Friday 15 February 13 05:49 GMT (UK)
Here's an edit for my previous post;
"there was the Calvinistic Methodist chapel" & not "a Baptist chapel"

R
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 February 13 08:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Richard

Not sure what you mean  ???

Did you want to modify what you said before:

. There was the baptist chapel & a few chairs to sit on.

Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Friday 15 February 13 09:45 GMT (UK)
Hi there, I'd previously written in my description from memory of being in Tregeiriog that I'd seen a Baptist church in the village, but as you had earlier pointed out, and as I was further researching I also found out that it was or is a CM church. On the 1901 census you pointed out that there was a Wesleyan Chapel, with the Smithy sitting in-between that & the CM church. Unless it was a new Smithy recently converted it could well be one in the same as the one vacated by Thomas Isaac in 1854 at the event of his early death. As far as I can guesstimate his father Edward ran it from at least 1841 & earliest mention of him being a blacksmith was in 1824, of Gilfach, he was 48 yrs old that year when his last son was born.

R
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 February 13 10:11 GMT (UK)
I wouldn't stake my savings on it, but I'd guess that it was likely to be the same Smithy. The amount of heavy equipment, forge, etc. would mean that it would be easier to take it over from the previous owner.

Some of my ancestors were forgemen and stayed at the same forge - the remnants of which still exist.

I think there used to be a Ceiriog Valley Newsletter a few years ago - not sure if it's still going. It might be worth contacting them about it if it still exists.


brevitas
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Gadget on Friday 15 February 13 10:12 GMT (UK)
Link:

http://www.ceiriogvalleynews.co.uk/
Title: Re: Tregeiriog area place name : Rhewl
Post by: Richard Isaac ap Edward on Monday 18 February 13 13:05 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
I just had a peek at the link for ceiriogvalleynews, great stuff. Have not found it before so will be exploring shortly. I did see the photo of the Pandy Chapel... every piece of the puzzle helps. I'm referring to my later question concerning the old chapels of Glyn Ceiriog. I managed to find some info on all but one.  ;D
Richard