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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: oldtimer on Friday 25 January 13 15:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi there :D
I have just received this photo of an ancestor, who was born in 1863. He looks around 25 to me in this photo. Unfortunately it hasn't been scanned very well.
Can anyone tell me the uniform please, and what rank he was. I can see the Stafford knots, so I know it is a Staffordshire regiment.
If anyone could tell me the colours, that would be great, as I am going to ask our friends on the photo board for a restoration.
Thanks for looking
Judy :D
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Hi Judy
Regulars dropped that style of cuff in 1881. So he is likely to be a part-timer, probably in the Militia. There may be something on the glengarry badge to help a bit more. But you will need a higher resolution scan. Regulars in both Staffordshire regiments had white collars and cuffs after 1881 as well.
Do you have a name? If he was a Militiaman you have a fair chance of finding his record. If he was in a Volunteer Battalion (the forerunners of the TA) you probably have no chance except if he served in the Boer War. If you want the photography experts to assist with dating you need to show the whole of the border, plus the back.
He is a Private.
Ken
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Thank you very much, Ken.
What is the Glengarry Badge? The one on his hat? Why would he have two different badges?
This is the only copy I have, unfortunately. The person who sent it to me was sent this copy from another relative, who is no longer alive.
Judy
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Hi Judy
Yes the Glengarry is the hat. You really should be using Google to discover basic information like this. By two badges do you mean the one on the hat and the collar badges? If so, they just had different designs on different parts of the uniform.
If you search for his full name on Ancestry - it would be worth taking out the free 14 days subscription as there is quite a lot - you find a WW1 service record plus a WW1 pension record - although the penson record flows into that for another man.
He enlisted in 1915 into the Royal Engineers as a tunneler - he was a collier. He only lasted 5-6 months as he was invalided out But that was enough time to be sent to France. So there will be a medal card for him. He claimed he was 45 in 1915, but there is something in the record saying he was 55 years old. More interestingly he claims previous service with the South Staffs Regiment, being discharged 'term of enlistment' in 1891. If he was 21 years old in 1891 he could not have been a Regular, as they enlisted for 12 years after the age of 18. However he could have been in the Militia or VB, as they took men at 17 for four years.
His wife is Melinda (?) and children Raymond and Oliver. I could not find a birth on FreeBMD with Dudley as a middle name. But this could be added later. There is a William Smallman born in Dudley in June (qtr) 1862. I think you need to download the information on Ancestry, print it off and read it carefully.
Ken
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Thank you very much, Ken, for all your trouble. I will do as you suggest.
Very much appreciated
Judy
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Judy & Ken,
I don't know if I'm going to upset the applecart here, but I don't think the soldier in the photograph is the person in question.
The person in the photograph is wearing the full dress pre-1881 tunic of the 38th (1st Staffordshire) Regiment of Foot, a regular line battalion. This further borne out by the glengarry badge which is also that of the 38th. The yellow of the facing colour appears dark due the photographic process of the period.
The pattern of waist-belt he is wearing is the 1871 Pattern Valise Equipment belt, which was replaced in 1882.
It might by worth while contacting the Staffordshire Museum in Lichfield, as I think they have a researcher there.
John
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Thank you very much John.
I have no proof that this man is who he is supposed to be. This was emailed to me from a direct descent, who believes it is our ancestor. I have a couple of photos that I know are of him as a rather old soldier in WW1, and to be honest there isn't much resemblance at all - except for those staring eyes!
I live very close to the Staffs Museum at Whittington, and I will take your advice and pop in there and see if anyone can help me.
Thank you again
Judy
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Hi John
Thanks for the correction. I was thrown by the 'lack' of yellow facings. I would also have expected a 1st Staffordshire man to have 38 on his epaulette.
Ken
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Ken,
I think that you'd be hard pushed see the numbers on his shoulder straps, given the angle of the pose he has adopted.
The yellow in sepia-tone photographs was explained to me some years ago, when I was puzzled by an image of Colour-Sergeant Anthony Booth, V.C. of the 80th (Staffordshire Volunteers) Regiment. For an example please see http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/intombi.htm
Regards,
John
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The yellow in sepia-tone photographs was explained to me some years ago, when I was puzzled by an image of Colour-Sergeant Anthony Booth, V.C. of the 80th (Staffordshire Volunteers) Regiment. For an example please see http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/intombi.htm
This would be because the early photographic negative emulsions (collodion) were sensitive only to blue light - other colours rendered oddly (to our eyes). Yellow and any warm colours would show up as dark, for example, while blues and whites will be very light. This is one of the reasons that people often think ladies are in mourning in old photos, whereas in fact they may have been wearing bright orange dresses.
From the mid 1880s onwards, with the development of gelatin dry plates, dyes were introduced to the emulsion that extended the sensitivity to other areas of the spectrum.