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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mwkelly on Tuesday 22 January 13 19:07 GMT (UK)
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Hello I would like to confirm details of burials for the following ancestors of mine
1) Solomon Bockerah buried 16 Jun 1791 St Philip Church, Lane Cove aged 31
2) his wife Ann Sarah Bockerah or Atkins buried 21 Feb 1793 St John's, Parramatta
3) there daughter Sarah Laurie/Lawrie died 6 Aug 1833 *Not sure what cemetery
Thank you for your help
Kind regards
Murray Kelly
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Hi Murray. I think you may have trouble finding an index for burials so early in NSW history.
One, I seriously doubt that there was a St Philip's Church at Lane Cove in 1791. I think the earliest permanent church was in Sydney City and wasn't built until 1802. Most of the services up to then were in temporary structures and they may not have had a ground for interment attached. These were at various loctions to the west of the main city area IE: Redfern, I believe there was another at the western End of York St towards Market Street and may have handled burials from St Philips (the earliest Church) when it was even a temporary church.. As for his wife Ann Sarah, same problem there was not a church there "Parramatta" until C1803. When the First St Johns was built. As there was not really a church records of burials are scant at best and a lot of these have not been digitised for online viewing.
Other problem is, were they Jewish, if so it would be extremely unlikely that were buried in any consecrated Christian Burial ground. Such were the times! Many eary burial grounds are now being discovered as newer developments replace old and efforts are made to rebury were possible.
MODIFIED Searching for people is also difficult as most of the online resources only go by those with a headstone or Marker, none are available for Sarah Laurie that I can see.
Neil
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Hi there,
Here's a link to info re St John's Cemetery at Parramatta. It has burials dating from 1790, and not just C of E burials, but all denominations.
http://www.discoverparramatta.com/places/heritage_and_historic_sites/st._johns_cemetery
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
Perhaps you will consider ordering an Official Transcription of an Early Church Record
NSW BDM online index has TWO entries, (most likely for the one burial, one record being a transmittal record of the other):
Solomon BOCKROW Vol 2A, line 1297, year: 1791
Solomon BOCKRON, Vol 4, line 321, year: 1791
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm
ADDING:
Just checked online NSW BDM ECR'S Burial records : Vol 2A, line 965, 1793 and Vol 148, line 431, in 1793 refers to Ann BOCKERAH.
And also
Sarah LAURIE's burial is Vol 17, line 516 in 1833. Sarah was noted as aged 42.
Cheers, JM
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Hi all,
Here is the net site for inscriptions St John's Cemetery, Parramatta, NSW
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery.php?id=789.
The 2nd partner of my 4th ggm is buried here but has no headstone & we think she is also buried here & alas, no headstone for her either!
Cheers,
MW
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Hello I would like to confirm details of burials for the following ancestors of mine
1) Solomon Bockerah buried 16 Jun 1791 St Philip Church, Lane Cove aged 31
2) his wife Ann Sarah Bockerah or Atkins buried 21 Feb 1793 St John's, Parramatta
3) there daughter Sarah Laurie/Lawrie died 6 Aug 1833 *Not sure what cemetery
Thank you for your help
Kind regards
Murray Kelly
Hi Murray,
As you are asking to CONFIRM burial details, I can assure you that the NSW BDM holds valid copies of the Early Church Records of Burials. The details on those records are scant, but I have provided you with the relevant reference numbers from the NSW BDM online index. You can then yet confirmation (date, location and name of the deceased person, but NOT details about parentage) from those certificates. The Official Transcription Agents provide the exact same information as on NSW BDM certificates, but can send the info by email and are cheaper.
All the necessary reference numbers are in my reply # 4.
Cheers, JM
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Are you saying that there was a St Philips at Lane Cove MAJM? I still doubt that one existed in 1791 at that location. Possibly a Ground for internment though? I believe that several were made for convicts working on that side of the Harbour!
Would the Church record have the burial location?
Neil
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Ann Sarah BOCKERAH was buried 21 Feb 1793 St John's, Cemetery Parramatta. Her name is on the burial register I have.
Her grave & headstone still exist but it has transcription errors owing to the difficulty that the photographer had reading it.
You can view a photo of it here:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=8629875
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No, Neil, In fact, I don't know much about at all the North Shore BEFORE AROUND 1800, so I cannot comment about the location in 1791. The information on the Official Transcript should give the location. The NSW Chaplain was Rev Richard Johnson.
http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/discover_collections/history_nation/religion/early/johnson.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Philip's_Church,_Sydney
Other RChatters probably know far more than me about Lane Cove at that time. It could even be that the document reads "Long Cove" rather than Lane Cove.
Cheers, JM
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Was Johnson the only Chaplain? If so he was a very busy boy. Seems an awful lot of Christenings and Burials, dont think there were any marriages until 93 though. ::)
No wonder I couldn't find that 1791 burial with that transcription and I did try a lot of variations. ???
Neil
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First marriages Feb 1788 !
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Neil,
You need to consider that many of the ECR records are in fact duplicating each other, in some instances the one event was recorded in four different sets of records. In other instances NO record was made at all. And each time a record was made there's spelling errors as a minimum to be considered.
The NSW baptism of one of my grandmothers (several "g"s removed ! and pre 1800) is indexed FOUR times, and yet her younger sibling's baptism is not indexed at all. !
Very hit and miss, but when there is an ECR record, the Official Transcript is the better option in my view, UNLESS of course the OP can get to the NSW State Library and look at their copy of the image. HOWEVER, the NSW SL does not permit you to take a photo/copy of the image......
Cheers, JM
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Interesting article:
One was erected in February, 1793, by the Judge-Advocate-to-be, Richard Atkins, to Sarah Buckrel: "as a testymonial of regard he bore for her when living."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article52260284
Debra :)
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"Interesting" From the article that Debra cites. One passage. " In the beginning there were no records of burials, and no Headstones. This was just a Paddock, part of the Churches Glebe lands."
Amazing that there is a headstone from 1793 to Sara Ann Bockerah. ::)
Neil
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St John's is a lovely old cemetery to have a look around.
First went there on a primary school excursion when we were looking at Australian history.
It is just up the road from my office so if you need a better transcription i can wander up and have a look in the next day or so.
Greg
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Ann Sarah BOCKERAH was buried 21 Feb 1793 St John's, Cemetery Parramatta. Her name is on the burial register I have.
Her grave & headstone still exist but it has transcription errors owing to the difficulty that the photographer had reading it.
You can view a photo of it here:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=8629875
Thank you very much
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St John's is a lovely old cemetery to have a look around.
First went there on a primary school excursion when we were looking at Australian history.
It is just up the road from my office so if you need a better transcription i can wander up and have a look in the next day or so.
Greg
Hi Greg that would simply be amazing if you can do that. Cheers Murray Kelly of Hamilton, NZ
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Hi Murray
I went up to St John's this morning and the grave is very easy to find - it is an altar style monument. Unfortunately as the inscription is on the top it has been badly degraded by weather but i did take some further pictures to the one available online in the cemetery index.
All you can really make out now is the start of the word "Sarah"
I walked back via the heritage centre in Parramatta and asked them the question - they have a book with complete transcriptions produced some 30 years ago and description of the monument.
I have taken a photocopy of the relevant page.
If you want to PM me your email address i can get the images to you.
Regards
Greg
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Solomon Bockerah is not in St Philip cemetery, Solomon and daughter were burred at Devon Shire/ sand Hills which is now Central Station Sydney i fear they maybe still there, however i did locate Ann Bockerah
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wow can you please, can me the source of your information, many thanks
MurrayKelly
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Hi there,
Devonshire Street Cemetery commenced in 1820
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-69
Sydney Burial Ground Sept 1792 until 1820
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/sydneys-history/people-and-places/old-sydney-burial-ground
Scroll down to the Excel spreadsheets a) with the burials and b) with reference to the abbreviations used
Cheers, JM
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Solomon BOCKRON, a Jew, was buried 16 July 1791 and the record of the burial is included in the St Philips register. This is the Church of England register that contains the NSW Chaplain's records.
See NSW BDM Early Church Records Volume 4, line 321, 1791.
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/6022845
Hi there,
Perhaps you will consider ordering an Official Transcription of an Early Church Record
NSW BDM online index has TWO entries, (most likely for the one burial, one record being a transmittal record of the other):
Solomon BOCKROW Vol 2A, line 1297, year: 1791
Solomon BOCKRON, Vol 4, line 321, year: 1791
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm
ADDING:
Just checked online NSW BDM ECR'S Burial records : Vol 2A, line 965, 1793 and Vol 148, line 431, in 1793 refers to Ann BOCKERAH.
And also
Sarah LAURIE's burial is Vol 17, line 516 in 1833. Sarah was noted as aged 42.
Cheers, JM
Cheers, JM
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Being a bit of a sticky-beak (in my experience many of us interested in genealogy are... ::) ) I'm interested to know how/why this family was in Oz so early? Wonderful to find these early records and especially the grave at Parramatta.
Judith
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Solomon BOCKERAH tried 9 Sept 1789 at London, Life sentence,
Arrived per Scarborough 27 June 1790.
24 April 1810 at 10 A.M.
marriage by banns, registered in St Philips C of E by Rev William Cowper
John LAURIE, bachelor, of Sydney, Overseer (signed)
And
Sarah BOCKERER, Spinster of Sydney (signed)
Witnesses Mary DELANEY and Barnard WILLIAMS (both signed)
Check the NSW Col Sec papers, Jan 29, 1810, Sarah BOCKRER, born in the Colony.
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/b/colsectoc-b.htm
I do NOT have a copy of the following, but I understand that Michael Flynn’s book “The Second Fleet” may well have further info on Solomon and Ann BOCKERAH.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/8479345?selectedversion=NBD9926052
and also
C J Smee’s book may have descendants and genie info ( I don’t have this either, sorry, my earliest arrived on the Bellona, Jan 1793)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/5322875?selectedversion=NBD7200857
Cheers, JM
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Thanks so much for your helpful information
Cheers
Murray
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Thanks, JM. I now understand about Solomon's arrival but what about his wife, Ann Sarah? Did he marry here in Oz or did she come with him, or later??
This is the link to the trial of Solomon at the Old Bailey
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17881210-82&div=t17881210-82&terms=bockerah#highlight
Judith
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Hi Judith,
These are very interesting questions you are asking .... I will add .... and their daughter .... was she born in England or in NSW ? How did these two arrive in NSW? Who paid their fares? Who provided for them both after Solomon's death?
Was Mrs Bockerah with her daughter among the 'came free' women :) ....
Just because there's no record of a marriage at the NSW BDM index does not mean there was no NSW marriage ..... but if Solomon was married in England .... perhaps familysearch ?
For example, here's a baby boy born 1789 for a Solomon and Ann BOCKERY, St Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England :)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLJQ-9DX
Cheers, JM
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I saw that Solomon BOCKERY born 21 January 1789, baptised 9 March 1789 which certainly looks possible - it would fit with his trial of 10 December 1788, although he is unlikely to have been around at the birth or baptism. The image gives the address of Solomon and Ann BOCKERY as Peartree Court, (and I assume) in the Parish of St Leornard Shoreditch - which is within a mile or two of the crime site. Obviously may just be co-incidence.
I don't see any later mentions of that baby.
Interesting questions!
Judith
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I understand Solomon Bockerah was buried near the current overseas liner terminal on the west side of Sydney Cove as the first Jew to be buried and identified as such by Rev Johnson. I’m not quite sure where I got that. There have been searches of this detail without definitive proof.