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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: jennyrob on Friday 18 January 13 12:17 GMT (UK)

Title: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Friday 18 January 13 12:17 GMT (UK)
I am looking for help with regard to death disappearence of John Dickinson in Dublin 1916 presumed to be killed at the Easter uprising He was a colliery manager and was there for work
He was born in 1868 Ince Lancs
I have contacted Grangegorman Cemetery and there is a Dickinson buried there no Christian name
Roscommon have  no records
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 18 January 13 12:56 GMT (UK)
Where did you get the information "disappearence of John Dickinson in Dublin 1916 presumed to be killed at the Easter uprising"?

Do you know where he was in 1911?
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 18 January 13 13:01 GMT (UK)
As far as I know Grangegorman Cemetery is only for Military - so wouldn't seem very likely place for burial of a civilian.

The only Dickinson burial (on internment.net (http://www.interment.net/data/ireland/dublin/grangegorman/index.htm)) I see mentioned is of a H. Dickinson age 22, Private of the S.Staffordshire Regt.


Shane
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 18 January 13 13:03 GMT (UK)
looking through the names it does look like some civilians are included, or possibly from army families - women, children and people a bit  too old to be serving
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Friday 18 January 13 15:48 GMT (UK)
Yes he was living in Wigan He went to Dublin with his work and never returned He was a colliery Surface manager
He had a wife Margaret Alice and five children
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 18 January 13 16:07 GMT (UK)
Where did you get the information "disappearence of John Dickinson in Dublin 1916 presumed to be killed at the Easter uprising"?

Do you know where he was in 1911?

Living in Wigan in 1911?

Was the family informed when he went missing or did they just suspect his disappearance linked with events in Dublin?

Dublin city doesn't have any mines but perhaps working outside the city somewhere?
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 18 January 13 16:12 GMT (UK)
May have found a clue- do you have any Wigan addresses for the family early to mid 1900s?

Added- do you know when (even if approx. when) Margaret Alice died?
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: IrishMedals on Saturday 19 January 13 11:45 GMT (UK)
The main cemeteries used for those killed in the Rising were Glasnevin, Deansgrange and Mount Jerome. He would only have been buried in Mount Gerome if he was protestant. He does not appear in the search on the Glasnevin website.  Deansgrange and Mount Jerome do not have search facilities on their websites so you would have to contact the cemetery. He may have been buried in Grangegorman but only if he had a strong military connection.

It is unlikely he was buried unidentified. In order for a burial to take place a certificate had to be obtained from the military, it had to be proved that the dead person was who it was claimed they were. Coffins were opened and searched as they entered the cemetery and only one person was allowed to accompany the coffin to the grave site.

It is also very unlikely he is buried anywhere other than Dublin, because of the large number of bodies there was a fear of diseases spreading and burials took place as soon as possible after identification. It is also unlikely he was buried in Dublin and then re-buried somewhere else at a later date, there was a government department called the Sanitation department from whom permission had to be granted before a re-burial could take place, as far as I know only one re-burial took place and that was one of the Rebels Thomas Allen who was buried in Glasnevin and then re-buried in Longwood Moyvally County Meath in 1917.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: Colur on Sunday 20 January 13 11:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenny,

In the section dealing with both military and civilian internments in Deans Grange Cemetery during the 1916 Rising, Jamie Moran’s very well researched book does not show a listing for John Dickinson.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Sunday 20 January 13 11:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for your help
 I am so grateful
 Trying to find out more about Margaret Alice !!!
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Monday 21 January 13 22:19 GMT (UK)

 As far as we  know, the family (his wife) was informed as soon as he went he went missing: he never returned from Dublin on the boat he was meant to. The story in the family is "it was about the time of the Easter uprising", so I suppose strictly there is not necessarily a formal link between the two, it's always been an assumption.
 
 1911 census they are listed at 320 Woodhouse Lane, Liverpool, and John Dickinson (who went missing) is listed as a colliery surface manager.
 
Margaret Alice died 29 June 1936 at 9 Claughton Drive, Birkenhead.
 
Hoping mystery can be solved
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Wednesday 23 January 13 17:11 GMT (UK)
Hope you come back Aghadowey and let me know the clue !!!!!
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: johnny_doyle on Saturday 26 January 13 20:01 GMT (UK)
at the end of the burials list in the 1916 Rebellion Handbook is a note to say that 12 unknown persons were buried.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Tuesday 29 January 13 21:03 GMT (UK)
Still hoping to solve mystery Thanks
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Thursday 07 February 13 23:51 GMT (UK)

 
 I have received a reply from Irish cemeteries saying they have checked their is  burial register and do not have a record forJohn Dickinson in 1916.
~~~~~~~~
I sent this to the other cemeteries
I am looking for help with regard to death /disappearance of John Dickinson in Dublin 1916 presumed to be killed at the Easter uprising He was a colliery manager and was there for work
He was born in 1868 Ince Lancs
I have contacted Grangegorman Cemetery and there is a Dickinson buried there no Christian name
I was wondering if Deans Grange Cemetery might be where he was buried
Roscommon have no records
Thank you for your e-mail. Unfortunately the only records I can check is
for Glasnevin and Goldenbridge cemeteries. I did a search for John
Dickinson and drew a blank. You would have to contact Deansgrange Cemetery
directly to find out if he is buried there.

Deansgrange said they drew a blank also

Thinking he might have done the dirty on his family

Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Wednesday 20 February 13 08:20 GMT (UK)
I would be so grateful aghadowey if you could let me know more about the clue you had relating to John
 I am just so stuck!
 Family members seem to think his wallet was found
 I would just love to solve mystery
Are there any other avenues I could go down
Was thinking he might have done a runner to Ameriica perhaps !!
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 20 February 13 09:05 GMT (UK)
I had found something in Wigan that might have been connected back on 18th January but by the time you asked about it on the 23rd I no longer had the note since I thought you weren't interested. If I find it again I will post here.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Wednesday 20 February 13 09:31 GMT (UK)
Thankyou so much I would be really grateful  :)
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: jennyrob on Tuesday 26 February 13 18:56 GMT (UK)
Still desperate to know if you have any news on this character Just have a funny feeling he started a new family So grateful for your help
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: Private 1st class on Thursday 30 July 15 21:28 BST (UK)
The nearest mines to Dublin would be Wolfhill, They were working flat out at that time.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: hasta on Friday 31 July 15 14:02 BST (UK)
There in a note in Dublin Poor Law Union, Committee meeting 26th Nov 1917 that says:

"A letter was read from the Dublin Metro police which stated that John Dickinson was arrested in England on a warrant, tried before Mr Lawford(?) on the 20th inst. and sentenced to six months imprisonment for wife desertion"

there is no clue as to why they have recorded this bit of info or what the relevance is to them.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: dathai on Friday 31 July 15 15:07 BST (UK)
Could that be this chap
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM7N-W18

possible 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Graham_s_Row/34350/
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: taramcdsmall on Friday 31 July 15 16:05 BST (UK)
'Tis an old thread so I'm not sure if OP is still interested ~

I don't think that 1911 person can be right Dathai as OP says John was still in England in 1911.

Tara
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: taramcdsmall on Friday 31 July 15 16:11 BST (UK)
Hasta's prison record find appears to be for the chap on the 1911 Census in Dublin.

Not the same person that is being looked for it appears  :-\

Tara

Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: dathai on Friday 31 July 15 16:13 BST (UK)
Hi Tara
          exactly what i meant.

Dathai
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: taramcdsmall on Friday 31 July 15 16:17 BST (UK)
Yup,

There are just coincidentally, vaguely similar.

Back to the drawing board  ;)

Tara
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: hasta on Friday 31 July 15 22:24 BST (UK)
No definitely not the right chap - that 1911 Dickinson was arrested in Leeds and sent to Mountjoy.
I have one of these 'walked out the door and never been seen since' mysteries that my friend and I have been trying to solve for years now and truthfully he could have gone anywhere in the world, It's very frustrating. :D
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: taramcdsmall on Friday 31 July 15 22:37 BST (UK)
Easier to disappear back then ~ Very hard for the families left behind.

Tara
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: rathmore on Saturday 01 August 15 12:28 BST (UK)
Did Margaret get a pension.

Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: blondie2005 on Sunday 27 March 16 12:09 BST (UK)
I am looking for help with regard to death disappearence of John Dickinson in Dublin 1916 presumed to be killed at the Easter uprising He was a colliery manager and was there for work
He was born in 1868 Ince Lancs
I have contacted Grangegorman Cemetery and there is a Dickinson buried there no Christian name
Roscommon have  no records

Hello there, I'd be really interested to know if you found anything about this man as I am pretty sure this is my great grandfather. I am descended from his son, Thomas Dickinson. The same story has descended down my side of the family. Any information you have would be most gratefully received.

Thanks so much
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: blondie2005 on Sunday 27 March 16 12:09 BST (UK)
Did Margaret get a pension.

The story that came down my side of the family was that she did not get one for seven years due to the inability to prove that John had died.
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: dathai on Wednesday 18 May 16 12:10 BST (UK)
http://digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:43949
Page 205

20/4/1918 John Dickenson age 42/47 ? Labourer, Address Leeds,Offence M S Act ? handed over to Leeds Police 20/4/18
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: myluck! on Wednesday 18 May 16 13:51 BST (UK)
MS Act is Merchant Shipping Act as far as I am aware but there could be another one!  :)
editted thanks to hasta's knowledge given below - thank you

This is probably the second John Dickinson who was sentenced to 6 months with the Leeds connection
Title: Re: Civilian Death Easter Uprising
Post by: hasta on Wednesday 18 May 16 13:56 BST (UK)
I'd be certain this is the other John Dickinson who neglected his children. He was arrested in 9 Providence Court Leeds and given 6 months hard labour 20/11/17 and released 20/4/18. Looks like he was immediately rearrested (Military Service Act) and conscripted. Not much luck flowing in his direction !