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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Sean O Callaghan on Thursday 17 January 13 20:49 GMT (UK)
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I am very keen to find anyone else researching Catherine Reeves, who married Timothy Murphy and who lived in Rathpeacon near Whitechurch, Co. Cork. She died in 1880, giving birth to her daughter, Ellen.
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In 1901 census Ireland Timothy Murphy widower age 58, Son Patrick 27, Daughter Ellie 20.
House No 20 Rathpeacon (Whitechurch Cork)
In 1911 Ellie is single age 30 and is employed as a servant in the house of John J Walsh family No 19 Rathpeacon (Whitechurch Cork)
www.nationalarchives.ie/census
Do you know where Timothy & Catherine married, cannot see a registration in Cork.
Was Catherine born in UK?I am very keen to find anyone else researching Catherine Reeves, who married Timothy Murphy and who lived in Rathpeacon near Whitechurch, Co. Cork. She died in 1880, giving birth to her daughter, Ellen.
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Ballydw,
Many thanks for your reply. My apologies for the delay in posting but I was travelling on business. Thank you for the information. I had found the census returns for 1911 and 1901 and saw that a Mary, I think, was living with Timorthy in 1911. I know that he had a daughter named Mary. Ellie had obviously moved out but I had no idea that she was serving in the home of this John J Walshe. It is wonderful to find that out.
I don't know when Timothy and Catherine married. It is possible she was born in the UK. The rumour in the family was that she was Protestant, a Quaker even, but I don't know how true that is. I have tried in vain to find a reference to their marriage. I do have a death certificate for Catherine from 1880. She died giving birth to Ellie. Amazingly, Ellie's daughter is still alive and well and I saw her two weeks ago. Part of my reason for research is to give her as much information as possible. Any further guidance you could give as to how to find any reference to the marriage would be greatly appreciated. I will look at the census records now to try to find the reference to Ellie in the home of John J Walshe.
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Familysearch has records for several of the children of Timothy Murphy and Catherine Reeves, including Charles 1865, Thomas 1866, Owen 1868, Patrick 1870, Eliza 1872, Mary 1877, and Ellen 1880.
The free index search on RootsIreland shows 3 more children. The same site shows an 1861 marriage for Timothy and Catherine.
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Familysearch has records for several of the children of Timothy Murphy and Catherine Reeves, including Charles 1865, Thomas 1866, Owen 1868, Patrick 1870, Eliza 1872, Mary 1877, and Ellen 1880.
The free index search on RootsIreland shows 3 more children. The same site shows an 1861 marriage for Timothy and Catherine.
www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index there are 170 REEVES listed for Co Cork .
www.rootsireland.ie for marriage record (this is a pay site if you want to purchase the marriage cert) You can also go to www.gro.ie where you can purchase any of the Certs which cost I think €4 for the Research Certs which will only apply to the Birth Certs. Civil Reg began in Ireland in 1864 so the marriage record wont be available from GRO :)
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Thank you so much, Gaffy and Ballydw. I don't know how you folks know so much and where to look. It's amazing. I appreciate the information a great deal. I will go to the sites you mention and try to familiarise myself with them. I have no idea what happened to any of these people who were children of Timothy and Catherine, except for Ellen, who was my great-grandmother. As I said, one of her daughters is amazingly still alive and well, but she was born in 1924 and doesn't know anything about those other family members, except for Patrick, who moved to Wales. As a result, what happened to Charles, Owen etc and their descendants is an unknown to me, yet as Timothy and Catherine had ten children in all, from what I know, there must be scores of relatives out there somewhere.
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Your welcome, if I discover anything else will let you know :)
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Well, I have made some good progress. Thanks for your help. I have discovered from searching rootsireland that Ellen's mother Catherine Reeves married Timothy Murphy in 1861 and that Catherine Reeves herself was born in 1842 to Thomas Reeves and Catherine Allen. I also found the record for Thomas and Catherine's marriage in 1841. I am amazed to get this far. Is there any database which might tell me if Thomas and Catherine had any other children?
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Well, I have made some good progress. Thanks for your help. I have discovered from searching rootsireland that Ellen's mother Catherine Reeves married Timothy Murphy in 1861 and that Catherine Reeves herself was born in 1842 to Thomas Reeves and Catherine Allen. I also found the record for Thomas and Catherine's marriage in 1841. I am amazed to get this far. Is there any database which might tell me if Thomas and Catherine had any other children?
Well you have progressed , :)Gaffy did mention the 1861 Marriage in a previous post. Can I ask which Parish did you find the info on rootsireland? Seeing as you found Catherine Reeves baptism to Thomas & Catherine Allen you should be able to come up with other siblings if there. Where did Thomas & Catherine reeves live at the time of the baptism/Parish :) Were their fathers names on their marriage of 1841. You could also try familysearch.org as you have Catherine Reeves parents also.
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Hi balldw- yes, sorry, I should have mentioned that gaffy found the 1861 marriage. I meant that I managed to find the marriage cert online and look at it. Strangely, it only gave the surnames, not first names of the fathers of both Catherine and Timothy. However, when I searched for a birth for Catherine, using the age on her death cert of 1880, I found that there was a Catherine Reeves born in the parish of Blarney (Blarney is the parish for all the certs) in 1842 and the ages match. Her father was Thomas Reeves and mother was Catherine Allen. The wedding cert of Thomas and Catherine (1841) do not give fathers' first names, only surnames of Reeves and Allen, and the parish is still Blarney.
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One of the witnesses to the 1841 marriage is an Elizabeth Reeves, so I imagine she may have either been the sister or the mother of Thomas, but she could equally have been any other relative, I suppose.
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www.CorkRecords.com In the search panel enter name Reeves there are quiet a few records on here, may not be connected to yours but worth a look. Have noticed on the Censuses in Ireland for Cork majority of Reeves families were C0I, Weyslian/Methodist very few catholic so your idea that they may have been Quaker might be possible. :)
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Ballydw, Thank you. That is an interesting site. I think the Thomas Reeves may be related to our Reeves, but I could not then find that the link to the Cork newspaper in which he is mentioned worked. I just put Reeves into the census, and, as you say. almost all of the Reeves are Protestant. I think that Catherine may have converted to Catholicism, though, and I wonder how common that would have been at the time. She is listed as Roman Catholic in one record which I have now found, but the family lore is definitely that she was Protestant and more than likely Quaker.
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Usually I think in bygone days and I stand "corrected" on this that when another denomination married into the Roman Catholic church, an undertaking was given that the children would be raised in the catholic faith, did your Murphy/Reeves marry in the Catholic Church? :)
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Reeves Quakers in Cork, Maria Reeves married Joseph John Fisher, son of John Fisher, son of Reuben Fisher, and Mary Hanks of Birr, daughter of Jeremiah Hanks, son of Jeremiah Hanks and Elizabeth Thomson, Maria was from Woodhouse Tipperary but resident in Cork, on her marriage she removed to Youghal. The marriage of Maria and John in Cork Meeting House 14.01.1813. Members of this family became members of the established church, hope this is of interest
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Good afternoon everyone, This seems an informed group and I wonder if any of you can shed some light on my grandparents who lived in Rathpeacon Hall from sometime after their marriage in 1906 until leaving in a hurry in the early 1920s. They appear in the 1911 census as living in Rathpeacon Hall. Edmond Scanlon married Bridget Teresa Murphy who was the daughter of DJ Murphy, who owned and operated the former Western Star Pub in Cork. My father, DJ Scanlon was born at Rathpeacon Hall in 1914 but his mother Teresa died in London in 1940. All of her children , my many aunts and uncles, are deceased but they all spoke fondly of Rathpeacon Hall, which sadly is just ruins nowadays. But the land appears to be owned now by Timothy Murphy. I am now living in Ireland and would love to know if we have any relatives in Co.Cork. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
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The 1861 Murphy/Reeves marriage can be viewed on Catholic Parish Registers
https://registers.nli.ie/
- date 2 Feb 1861, Diocese Cloyne, Parish Blarney and White Church
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Welcome to RootsChat, Gerry :)
Rathpeacon Hall in the townland of Rathpeacon.
Choose MapGenie 25 Inch - ITM from Basemap Gallery.
https://arcg.is/01Xzvv
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
This looks like the family in 1911- Edmond, wife Bridget, 3 children and a female servant. Edmond listed as cattle dealer.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Bishopstown/Gurteenaspig__part_of__Rural_/402574/
Marriage in 1906- Edmond Scanlon to Bridget Teresa Murphy. Edmond's occupation was agent and father Daniel a butcher.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10139/5689106.pdf
Children:
Eileen Moira (1907 at Laurel Ville, Blackrock Rd.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01681/1668602.pdf (father sheep dealer)
Daniel (1909 at Highfield Ave.)- Donal in 1911 census
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01607/1645157.pdf (father sheep buyer)
Bridget Geraldine (1910 at Highfield Ave.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01544/1625129.pdf (father cattle dealer)
Denis Joseph (1914 Rathpeacon)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01416/1581927.pdf (father cattle dealer)
?Edmond born 24 June 1915 Cork district (image not online)
Dympna Elizabeth (1921 Rathpeacon)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01172/1488481.pdf (father cattle dealer)
There are also a few other children with father Scanlon mother Murphy where the images are not online.
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August 1910- Edmond Scanlon, Hon. Secretary Irish Cattle Trade Association
March 1940- Western Mail (Cardiff, Wales)- death of wife of Edmond Scanlon mentions Rathpeacon Hall.
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Bridget Murphy birth 16 October 1885 - father Denis Joseph Murphy a publican (Western Star). MMN O'Keefe
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02619/1966764.pdf
..but his mother Teresa died in London in 1940.
Death Jan-Mar 1940
Scanlan Bridget T 53 Marylebone
FreeBMD
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Thank you so much Aghadowey & Kiltaglassen! You are both 100% correct in your posts. I have researched my father, Denis Joseph Scanlon b. 1914, and grandfather, Edmond, son of Daniel Scanlon from but know very little about the Murphy line or what happened to Rathpeacon Hall immediately after they left in the early 1920's. Family history has all sorts of stories as to why they left in such a hurry- foot & mouth outbreak, black & tans raiding the house at gunpoint after an IRA raid nearby on the food train,
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A few snippets-
Cork Constitution, 5 Apr.1890: … Rathpeason Hall to be let, on the Commons Road to Blarney, was lately put in thorough repair …
Cork Constitution, 18 Sept.1893: GALE- On the 16th inst., at his son’s residence, Rathpeacon Hall, Cork, Parnell Hale, in the 79th year of his age.
Dublin Evening Telegraph, 13 June 1895: A Cork Divorce Case. … whose address was given as 9 Morrison’s Quay, Cork, to obtain a divorce .. from her husband, Robert of Rathpeacon House, Rathpeascon, County Cork, on … his … misconduct …
Cork Examiner, 12 May 1900: RATHPEACON HALL to be Let from September next the Dwelling House, Garden, Grounds and Premises known as Rathpeacon Hall, close to the City of Cork, containing 3 Sitting Rooms, 5 Bed Rooms, also kitchen, Sculleries, Servants’ Apartments, Pantries, etc. …
Evening Echo (Cork), 21 July 1904: REIDY- On the 16th July, at Rathpeacon Hall, the wife of J. Reidy, of a daughter.
Cork Examiner, 20 Oct.1904: For Sale By Auction … the Fine Residence of Rathpeacon Hall, which produces £60 per annum, and rates; and the balance of the 18 acres produces £30 a year; on the remaining portion, _ acres 2 roods and 10 perches, is the the Residence of Rathpeacon Hall. …
Evening Echo (Cork), 21 Jan.1914: SCANLON- On … the wife of E. Scanlon, Rathpeacon Hall, of a son.
Evening Herald (Dublin), 27 Sept.1949: Boy Killed In Fall From Tree … was fatally injured when he fell from … branch of a tree while picking chestnuts with some companions at Rathpeacon Hall, Barney Road.
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Some body died 1916
Irish Examiner Dec 4 1916
Cattle Trade
South Ireland Association
Letters were received from Messers D J Murphy Western Road and E Scanlon Rathpeacon Hall thanking the Association for their sympathy in their recent bereavement.
And E Scanlon is listed in May 22 1920 in the same paper again for the Cattle Trade Association.
Evening Echo 1937
A judge is dealing with cases under the Damage to Property Act (I think this applies to claims dating from War of Independence and Civil War)
Edmond Scanlon Penarth Cardiff formerly of Rathpeacon Cork. Damage of a wall and hay and the cutting of trees to block the road. Two decrees of £26 and £16.
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Is the house anywhere near the railway or the railway station?
The trains seem to have been fairly regularly raided for mail bags (this happened all over the country) and in Sept 1922 the railway bridge at Monard was blown up having recently been repaired also the signal house at Rathpeacon destroyed. So quite a bit of activity in the area making life difficult for the locals and anyone trying to do business.
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The railway certainly went through the townland of Rathpeacon-
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/cork/whitechurch/whitechurch/rathpeacon/
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/20906319/carhoo-county-cork
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Irish Examiner Nov 1 1924
W Marsh & Sons are instructed by the owner to sell……on Tuesday 18th November the residence and lands known as Rathpeacon Hall, Cork which are held under lease for an unexpired term at the annual rent of £57 P.L.V. Buildings £30 Lands £20.
The description includes a newly built Slaughterhouse and Shed so it looks like Edmond was planning on staying there long term.
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It appears Edmond left with paying the telephone bill. It probably arrived after he left.
Cork Examiner March 1925
Riverstown District Court
Minister for Posts and Telegraphs is applying to the court to recover £11 17s 1d from Edmond
for the quarter ending September 1924
The next mention of the Hall is in 1934 a Daniel Murphy, who is clearly involved in the cattle trade.
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Number 214 (in 1924)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-Q34C-5?cat=185720&i=665
I expected this to be the sale of the Hall but I’m not sure what it is but money is owed, it says Edward Scanlon but the address is Rathpeacon Hall so not sure about it.
And 261 (in1925) again Edward.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKS-BWYZ?cat=185720&i=545
104 (1920) this one is Edmond
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-SKJS?cat=185720&i=331
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Thank you Sinann! I am amazed at how helpful you are. I could not read the text but my grandfather, Edmond, certainly had many problems in the early 1920's as the whole family moved from what was an idyllic youth to very hard times in Wales. He used to attend my rugby matches when I was a lad and often told me that he played for he South of Ireland in their famous win over the All Blacks believed to be in 1904. However, I have no idea if that is true as it's so long ago and he was clearly something of a scallywag! However, thanks for your very kind and informative help!
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The writing is difficult and the legalese doesn’t help.
The 1920 one (as far as I can work out) is an indenture of mortgage dated 20 Sept 1920 between Edmond Scanlon Rathpeacon Hall and Provincial Bank of Ireland Ltd.
There are a few names and dates regarding the property; if I can make sense of them.
A lease from May 1851 between Ann Guy and Richard Thomas
A lease from Sept 1870 or 1810 between Robert Thomas and Harry Webb Thomas and Charlotte Thomas.
A lease March 1908 between John Tracey and John Reidy .
It looks like Edmond took over this mortgage or the lease of the property that was mortgaged.
There are a few more names but I’m lost as to what is going on, the name to note is the surname Thomas.
The 1924 one is an affidavit in regards to a judgment from the High Court of Saorstat Eireann (Irish Free State).
William Thomas of Tyrhavan (sp?) Farm Maesycwmmer Wales had a judgment against Edward Scanlon Rathpeacon Hall Cattle Dealer for £167 15s 3d but I can’t see a reason why but given he had the surname Thomas could it have something to do with the mortgage on the Hall?
The 1925 one is also an affidavit about a judgement from the High Court
F H Thompson and Son Ltd (looking in the newspapers appears to be a catering company/restaurant) got a judgement against Edward Scanlon Rahtpeacon Hall Cattle Dealer for £51 12s 6d but again I can’t see why he owes them money.
In both affidavits it’s claimed that at the time of swearing Edward Scanlon had ‘benefit’ from Rathpeacon Hall and lands. In other words he had assets/income from Rathpeacon Hall.
Add the telephone bill to this lot and the new buildings at Rathpeacon Hall and it looks like Edmond simply over reached financially.
Ireland first played the All Blacks in 1905 and didn’t even score. 15 to 0 to the All Blacks. There is no Scanlon named on the team on the IRFU website. :) Think he was pulling your leg.
https://www.irishrugby.ie/2005/11/10/previous-meetings-ireland-v-new-zealand-1905-1978/
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Hello, reading this with great interest as Catherine and Thomas are in my family tree.
Ellen's brother Thomas Murphy he was one of the older siblings wheres Ellen one of the oldest