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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rmain78 on Monday 14 January 13 14:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am researching our family history and have got stuck.
My Great Grandparents lived in Middlesbrough, at 23 Mansfield Avenue. They died in 1932 and 1934 and their children went into the Children's home.
I am trying to find out information on Walter Bailey and Margaret Gallagher. I cannot find a record of their marriage. Walter was approx 17 years older than Margaret.
He died in St Luke's hospital in 1934... does anyone know how to / or if we can get any information with regards to their hospital records as I desperately want to find out his birth date.
Or do these names mean anything to anyone?
Thanks
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hi he dies 1934 age 53 so should be born about 1881 dave
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Hello,
Thank you... I do have a copy of his death certificate. Died on 3rd June 1934, aged 53.
Problem is I don't have his date of birth, or place of birth. Wanted to know if I can obtain this from the hospital records somehow??
I am to believe he was born in Ireland, and did not return there after WW1 but settle in Yorkshire area with Margaret Gallagher.
I am hitting a brick wall and looking for a needle in a haystack at the moment.
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hello there is a tree you could have a look at on Mundia it has her name as Mary Margaret Gallagher born at Liverpool 1896 died 1932 Middlesbrough. Four children one being John Bailey born 1918 Margaret V Bailey born 1920 Joseph James Bailey born 1922- 1966 there are a couple of photos. The last child is private. Take Care Lynette
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Hello,
Thank you for that.. I just discovered that Mundia is Ancestry. I think you have found my tree on Ancestry.
:-)
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Sorry about that I remember when I first found my tree on Ancestry I thought I was going mad I started mine on Mundia. I looked on Family Search and BMDs and could not find a marriage. Take Care Lynette
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Looking at FreeBMD I can't see any Bailey births with mother's maiden name Gallagher in or around Middlesbrough in the relevant time period. Were the children born elsewhere - if not, are you sure that was (Mary) Margaret's maiden name (her death is registered as Mary M Bailey)?
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Hi, Thank you for trying to help.
Yes Margaret was definatly a Gallagher, I obtained that from the baptism of their youngest child.
I don't think they were married, but she took his name. There is no record for any of the childrens births which I think is due to them not being married. All I can find is the one Baptism where they were living at the time. So maybe the others are baptised but I dont know where.
I think that Walter may have been married before the war and did not go back to his family after WW1. So he could not get married as he already was.
Does anyone know if I can get hold of any of Walter Bailey's hospital records, and how I would go about this?
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It looks as though any records surviving from St Luke's may be at Teesside Archives:
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=020-hsl&cid=-1#-1
Contact details here:
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archon/searches/locresult_details.asp?LR=20
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Any idea of Walter's occupation?
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Margarets death certificate (April 1932) has him down as a steel erector, and on his (June 1934) it says he was a labourer.
I was going to try and look into steel construction from the 1930's to see if I could discover who he worked with.
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I asked because I found a Walter Bailey in 1901 Irish census the right age but born in England and an accountant-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Dunmanway/Sackville_Street/1142198/
Ten years later he's still in Ireland with a wife Helen-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Clonakilty_Urban/Chapel_Street/379183/
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Margaret V just typed this on fbmd 1919 to 1921 and i can not see any bailley or gallagher all counties at all dave
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Yes Margaret was definatly a Gallagher, I obtained that from the baptism of their youngest child.
I don't think they were married, but she took his name. There is no record for any of the childrens births which I think is due to them not being married. All I can find is the one Baptism where they were living at the time. So maybe the others are baptised but I dont know where.
Hello,
were they always living in Middlesbrough - as far as you know? You say 'where they were living at the time'.
regards
heywood
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Whilst I can't find the others, there is a birth for a John J. Bailey in June quarter 1918 in West Derby (which is regn. area where Mary Margaret born/lived) with mothers maiden name as Gallogly on one site and Gollagly on another. I looked at original page and looks like Gallagly. I can't see a marriage between a Bailey and Gallogly/variants and wonder if this is a transcription error and that Gallagly should read Gallagher??
Annette
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Have also found a Bailey birth reg'd Middlesbrough Jun.qtr.1925 for a male (won't name in case still living) and mmn is given as Gollaghy - wondering if this was the youngest child and again have a GRO mistranscription of Gallagher. Seems strange to have this odd name appearing 1) in West Derby and 2) in Middlesbrough. Something to consider anyway.
Annette
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They look promising Annette. :)
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Could this be Mary Margaret with her parents on the 1901 Census Take care Lynette
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Annette,
this possibility has been discussed on the other thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,631667.msg4794813.html#msg4794813
Main78,
One thread should be sufficient at the moment - information is being repeated or searched for unnecessarily.
There is a private tree with this family.
regards
heywood
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His death certificate says he was a Steel erector or a Labour
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I have had a look at the birth for the Bailey in Middlesbrough in 1925.
It is listed as Herbert E Bailey, A/M/J 1925. Middlesbrough.
My Great Uncle is Albert * born *. He did have trouble finding his birth certifcate that all we had was his baptism at the Middlesbrough Catheral Church in *. This is how I found his mothers maiden name as Gallagher. So, either the birth mother maiden name is wrong on the Batism record, or maybe it is wrong on the birth register.
I will have to look on census for the Gollaghy spelling and see what I find!
Also My great Uncle John, was John Jack Bailey born around 1918.... so very excited if this is him.
This has been a great help. Thank you so much... any more help would be appreciated! :-)
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Did not realise I had not mentioned:
Walter Bailey + Mary Margaret (Gallagher)
Children:
John J Bailey c 1918
Margaret Bailey c 1920
Joseph James Bailey 30th Sept 1922
Albert *
Mary died April 1932 at St Barnabas u.d
Walter died June 1934 at St Luke's u.d
The three boys went into the childrens home, I have the admission and dischage copies of this
I dont know where margaret went, possibly with a relative.
They got split up as they left the childrens home when they come of age to leave
John went to the Army
Joseph was a Royal Marine
Albert was in the Navy
Albert is still living and lives in *, he moved in the 1960's..did not have contact with him until the 1980's. He knows little to nothing of his parents, and due to his childhood in the childrens home, it is not something he will talk about.
My Grandad Joseph died in 1966 when my mum was 16, so have no information about his family from him.
Any help much appreciated..
* details of living person removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
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I have found the four children.
I am now trying to find the marriage and/or birth of :
Walter Ernest Bailey c 1881 and
Mary Margaret Gallagher c 1895
Thinking marriage possibly in the Lancashire area due to where first son born.
I have also found out that Walter was a Sapper in the Royal Engineers.
Any ideas?
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Can you tell us where the new information has come from? You now state Walter had a second name of Ernest and that he was a Sapper in the Royal Engineers - where did you get these specific details?
Annette
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On Scotlandspeople.com I discovered along with the Joseph Edward Bailey and Margaret Violet Bailey there was a Walter Ernest Bailey born In 1919 with the same parents. He died at 10 hours old being premature.
I found out that Walter Bailey snr had the middle name Ernest from the death certificate of his son. I presume possibly as he was premature they might not have had a name so named him after his father.
It also stated that the father Walter Ernest Bailey's occupation on the death certificare was a engine fitter, Sapper Royal Engineers.
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I can confirm that the records for St. Luke's are at the Teesside Archives in Middlesbrough, my ancestor died in the hospital and I went to the archives to look at his records. You may or may not know that St. Luke's was the mental hospital or asylum as it was then referred to. You would not be allowed to look at the hospital records as they are subject to the 100 year rule. I was fortunate in that I found out only a few months before the hundred year anniversary of my ancestor's death that he had died there. I didn't have long to wait until I could see his records and I must admit it was a bit upsetting when I did read them. Although the records contained his age and date of admittance, his actual date of birth was not shown.
The staff at the archives are very helpful and perhaps if you rang and told them that you only wanted his age from the records, maybe they would look it up and let you know. Worth a try!
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It seems that the surname of 'Gallagher' that you obtained from baptism record is incorrect and should be Gollagly or Gollogly. I see this was listed on baby Walter's death certificate too.
You needed to stay in Scotland because that is where Walter Bailey married Margaret Gollagly on 8/11/1913 in Glasgow (strange they come up as Walter and Margaret in the index but when you view the certificate it just has 'W' and 'M'. He was 33, son of John Bailey, Ship Plater and Grace, nee Griffiths - both shown as deceased. She is 21, dau. of James Gollagly, Tailor (journeyman) and Helen, nee Mills.
Although they married in Glasgow the address for them both is given as 27a Parkhead Street, Motherwell.
They had a dau. Helen Grace b. and d. 1914 in Govan (named after her respective grandmothers) but knowing that there now seems to be no connection to Lancashire or the name Gallagher I'm wondering if the plain John Bailey b.1915 Govan could be your John.
Annette
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Walter's parents John Bailey and Grace Griffiths appear to have married in Liverpool in 1873. By 1881 they are living in Durham and they did indeed have an Walter Ernest BUT he fibbed about his age as he was actually born in Birkenhead, Cheshire in 1874!! So when he married in 1913 saying he was 33, he was actually 38/39.
Annette
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Thank you for this information.
It has been very hard to know where to look as all I knew was Albert/Herbert's place of birth and the names that we knew them all as. Due to their childhood all information on any of the Bailey family has been lost/unknown. It is sad that we have no Photo's or memories from the family, but finding out where they came from is brilliant.
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Hello,
Are you sure it is Gallagher?
I am a Gallagly myself, and always assumed my last name was shortened from Gallagher but later found out it was orginally spelled Gollogly and have found various misspellings, Gallogly, Gollagly, Gallaghy, Gollolgy, researching Gollogly records.
My great grandfather was born Peter Gollogly, but spelling changed to Gallagly when he came to America.
My Godfather was Tommy Gollogly, my grandfathers cousin, though his name was not changed to Gallagly when he immigrated to America.
Peter had a sister Mary b.1894 and Margaret b.1892 Gollogly.
The Gollogly family were from Keady, Armagh, Ireland and also Motherwell Scotland.
My Grandfather Hugh Gallagly was born in Motherwell, Scotland and his father Peter Gollogly was born in Keady, Armagh, Northern Ireland
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Omgoodness Annette7,
My heart is pitter pattering, I just read a few more post below and seen....
Margaret was the daughter of James Gollagly, Tailor (journeyman) and Helen, nee Mills.
Peter's Father was James Gollogly and in the 1901 and 1911 census it states he was a Tailor.
Peter's mother was maiden name was Mills, and Helen could me a variation of Ellen
In the 1911 census Peter age 20 and Margaret age 19, mother was listed as Rose Ellen Gollogly s/b Gollogly
In the 1901 census Peter age 9 and Margaret age 7, mother name was listed as Ellen Gollogly.
And Ironically, I have a ? next to a sibling of Peter and Margaret named "Antoinette". I was not sure if she was related, but I saved the record in case she was the oldest sister who was not named in the 1901 and 1911 census.
The record was for John McSherry (Gollogly) - Antoinette marriage in 1915 on a index for Orphan's Court in Philadelphia Marriage License -- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12340-92598-32?cc=1388247[/i]
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Hi, I don't have anymore information on the Gollagly / Mills family. do you have dates of birth or any other information for James Gollagly and Helen Mills?
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I had a look at the 1911 census for Gollogy in Armagh, Ireland. I noticed there was a Francis Gollogly as Margarets younger brother. On my great uncles (Margarets youngest son) Baptism record there is a Francis Gallager (which we presume is now Gollagly/Gollogly) as a witness!
I have Margaret and Walter residing in Motherwell at the time of their marriage in 1913.
It says her father was James Gollagly as Tailor Journeyman and Helen nee Mills.
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Also, my grandfather Hugh Gallagly was born in Motherwell, Scotland.
The family traveled back and forth from Keady Armagh - to Motherwell Scotland, for work I believe.
That's why my grandfather was born in Scotland and not Keady Armagh.
1901 Census Gollogly (was misspelled Gallaglay)
33 Chapel Street, Keady Town, Armagh, Ireland
James 39 b.1862, Ellen 38 b.1863,
Jane 22 b.1879, Lizzie 19 b.1882, James 17 b.1884, Denis 11 b.1890, *Peter 9 b.1892 (my gg-pa), Margaret 7 b.1894, Mary 6 b.1895, Frank 5 b. 1896
Gollogly 1911 Census 37 in Chapel Street, Keady Urban, County Armagh, Ireland
James Gollogly 48 b.1863 - Rose Ellen 48 b.1863
Denis 22 b.1889, Peter 20 b.1891, Margaret 19 b.1892, Mary 17 b.1894, Francis 16 b.1895, Andrew 4 b.1904
Records I have also found
--> Denis Gollagly, age 30, Glasgow Scotland - Nov 12, 1920 "New York, Passenger Arrival Lists"
--> Denie Gollogly age 35 b.1889 UK Outward Passenger List Departure May 24, 1924 Glasgow Scotland to New York - ((** other - William J Walter))
--> James Gollogly age 5 b.1908 arrives 1913 last resident - Motherwell Scotland "New York, Passenger Arrival Lists (Ellis Island), 1892-1924"
--> James Gollogly age 2 b.1921 arrives April 6, 1923 last resident - Motherwell Scotland
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There is a Military WW1 1914-1920 army listing for a John Golligly b 1894, father James Golligly, Mother Rose Golligly.
Do you think this has any relevance to your Peter John?
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Hi,
I have found the following on Irish roots under County Armagh. Not sure if all relevant, I don't have credits to check the documents to see who the parents are. But some of the names match up. Is anyone able to check if the parents to any are James Gollagly and Helen/Ellen Mills?
Civil Birth Gollaghy Eliza 1881 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly James 1883 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly Rose Anne 1886 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollagly Denis 1887 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly John Francis 1888 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly Peter John 1890 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly Margaret Josephine 1892 Co. Armagh
Church Baptism Gollogly Mary Clare 1894 Co. Armagh
Civil Birth Gollogly Mary Clare 1894 Co. Armagh
Church Baptism Gallogly Francis 1895 Co. Armagh
Thanks
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Or can anyone check to see if these marriages are to a James Gollagly?
Church Marriage Mills Ellen 1870 Co. Cork
Civil Marriage Mills Ellen 1871 Co. Armagh
Church Marriage Mills Ellen 1875 Co. Kilkenny
Civil Marriage Mills Ellen 1875 Co. Kilkenny
Thank you
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Peter John 1890 Armagh is my great grandpa.
Not sure about WW I record, is it for UK or US.
Peter was in Scotland in 1919.
John gillogly, I don't believe is my ggrandpa, I've not found a record with the name John for him.
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How did you find out the Gallagher was a misspelling for Gollogly again?