RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Derbyshire => England => Derbyshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: matts on Sunday 13 January 13 14:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Wass
Post by: matts on Sunday 13 January 13 14:50 GMT (UK)
Hello could some one please confirm full name of bride for the marriage of Thomas WASS b1643  married in North Wingfeild 1668 to  either a Martha ? or a Elizabeth ? thank you

Also John WASS Married in 1693 North Wingfeild to Ann ?
                                                                                                    Thank you Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Sunday 13 January 13 15:16 GMT (UK)
Hello June:-
Thomas Wass married Elizabeth Mottershaw at North Wingfield 17.04.1667...........but the John Wass marrage 1693 is not there...

There is a baptism for John Wass son of John at NW 22.06.1694..which fits..but no mother noted..which was quite usual.......

I'm still looking.

Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Sunday 13 January 13 16:18 GMT (UK)
Wow that was quick thank you,  lam trying to make my Wass family tree, might come across afew more bits missing so will keep in touch if that is ok, thanks again for your help :
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Sunday 13 January 13 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hi

On my NW transcript is says it was JOHN Wass who married Elizabeth Mottershaw not THOMAS.

Also the same on Freereg.  June did you mean to say Thomas? as there is a Thomas & a John born around that time.

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Sunday 13 January 13 17:54 GMT (UK)
Sorry Carol........it WAS John...mea culpa!!..John and Elizabeth went on to have at least eight children
1669-1683......

Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Sunday 13 January 13 19:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Yes l did mean Thomas l have him and Elizabeth having 7 children, you people on Roots are so good at helping, l thank you all, l expect l will be back with more questions, Thank you Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Sunday 13 January 13 19:27 GMT (UK)
June...would be interested in the children you have for "Thomas" and Elizabeth.......I have..and i think Carol has too..the following:

Jonathan 30.01.1680
Elizabeth 16.04.1669
Joseph 03.01.1679
John 23.08.1674
Isabel 04.06.1677
Ann 27.11.1671
Ellen 1683.......................children of John and Elizabeth.......

What is your source for a marriage between Thomas and Elizabeth?


Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Sunday 13 January 13 22:18 GMT (UK)
Hi, the children l have for Thomas Wass B 1643 N W  M 1668 D 1711  married to either a Martha or Elizabeth are

Isabell b1669
John b1671                             All born at North Wingfeild, this info l found on another family tree,
                                             perhaps it is wrong and the fathers name is not Thomas,
Elizabeth b1673                         
Thomas b1674                        Oh dear my family tree might all be wrong, now l wonder if Thomas
Sarah b1677                            father is Godfrey Wass B1611 N W, speak tomorrow Regards June
Isabell b1680
Abigai lb1682,
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Sunday 13 January 13 22:32 GMT (UK)
Dear June..do not take other people's family trees as Gospel..most of them are copied from others, thereby copying and perpetuating the mistakes.......the children you have..and that i have are from the North Wingfield Parish registers..........Carol is probably better at this than i ma..but i'm sure she will confirm that there is no marriage between a Thomas Wass and Elizabeth......
You must work from primary Sources, or be sure that the people you are listening to can confirm that they are working from Primary Sources..Sources should always be quoted.
The children you mention are indeed in the NW PR's...children of THOMAS..but no wife entered.....and if you have the right Thomas..he did not marry at NW...
Thomas Wass...a Thomas Wass ..was baptised at NW 08.10.1643..son of Godfrey and Elizabeth..Godfrey was baptised NW 12.03.1612 son of Richard and Isabell........ay least we have an isabell !!!!!

So let's start again...........

Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Monday 14 January 13 10:19 GMT (UK)
morning, oh dear l am a little confused now, l got a lot of my info from family search,
l started my Wass family  tree from myself going backwards no one living to help answer questions, how ever lam all most sure from me backwards to 1821 is correct,
 ( l hope)
l also have Godfrey Wass B 1612 l have a Elizabeth Kirk as his wife, l have them as having 8 children one being Thomas Wass b1643 christened 16th Oct 1643 N W  then lam now at a lost to who Thomas  married and if the children l have listed are the correct one's if not it throws my tree completely wrong as the child Thomas b1643 son John b1671 N W is my next in line as one of my granddad, (John b1671 l have as married in 1693 to a lady called Ann, l hope l have explained myself clear enough for you to understand what l am saying, how you lovely people put up with pepole like me who really don't know what they are doing, you are really wonderful,
l might just give up on this tree it has  always  been an head ack , thank you all veryyyyyyyyyy much Regards June

Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Monday 14 January 13 11:13 GMT (UK)
OK June.here's what we do.........you say you are sure in your journey back to 1821..this can be easily checked..then those of us who have access to Parish records can probably trace the correct line back.

i'd like you to tell me what you have in 1821 that you're sure about. I personally need to pick up your family on the census returns and work backwards......from 1841 at least..

One thing that occurs to me is that the children you have may well be right...the baptisms exist as i have shown you..and they are the children of Thomas Wass with no wife...This is a common phenomenon that far back, and is the cause of so many brick walls..the wife never gets found.....so you might well indeed have the right family..back to 1612 and Godfrey Wass..and that's pretty damn good you know!!

There are many many copies of this "Tree" on Ancestry..all copied from each other and all guessing..NONE of them have any idea at all who Thomas married!

Give us what info you have around 1841..and we'll take it from there.

Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Monday 14 January 13 14:39 GMT (UK)
Bless you, right here goes

My grandad James H Wass B 1879 Gt Gonerby his father was
John Frederick Wass B 1853 spittlegate Grantham, (Only Child),  his father
James Wass B 1821 Ropsley Lin'c His father
William Wass B 1782 Ropsley  His father
James Wass B 1757 B Foston Lin'c  his father
Thomas Wass B 1725 N Wingfield, Married Amy Bestwich they married in 1751 Peak Forest, then
John Wass B 1704 N W married Lydia Hopkinson
that's the info l have plus l have more that goes further back to a  Nicholal Wass B 1525 Morton Alfreton that's the furthest l go, like you say that is great, but l'm not sure if it is all correct or if the Thomas B 1643 N W is correct , blimey that all looks good, be grateful for your input if you have the time, Thank you, Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Monday 14 January 13 14:55 GMT (UK)
John Wass baptised NW 29.04.1704..was the son of John and Rebecca..who were not married at NW....so now I'm looking for that marriage............I have most of the baptism dates for the family you have given me........I know that area of Lincs very well...incidentally there are three John Wass baptisms at NW n the 70's...1671..1673..and 1674.........one of them being the son of John and Elizabeth!!!(nee Mottershaw)

update 15.35GMT...........John Wass married Rebecca MOTTERSHAW at Chesterfield 02.02.1703.. I'm beginning to think that all you have to do to get back on track is to dump John 1671.and accept John 1674.....lots of people married their cousins!

Just to annoy everybody including me!! I have found a burial at NW for one Martha Wass 28.10.1691 wife of Thomas.....should've kept quiet about it!!
Thomas son of Godfrey and Elizabeth 08.10.1643 is correct, but then so is John son of Godfrey and Elizabeth 19.09.1637......!!!!!!
Further edit......Thomas Wass 20.10.1725 son of John and Lydia, was a replacement for Thomas 10.04.1724.. buried 09.08.1724...sad.....

and........the 16th century Morton family was WASSE....the original spelling of WASS..
Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Monday 14 January 13 16:35 GMT (UK)
Wow, l need to read and re read your e-mail and alter afew things, but as much as l want to stay on line and alter my tree etc l can not do this today l have visitors for dinner (family) so got to leave it for today,so if you come across any thing tonight l will answer you tomorrow,  once again l thank you for your time, Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Monday 14 January 13 18:11 GMT (UK)
Hi June

You said you had information back to 1821 that you could prove. Where did the other information come from?

Are you sure that the North Wingfield Wass's moved to Lincolnshire?   What information have you got to prove it.

When did John Wass marry Lydia Hopkinson & where? 
I have a Lydia in my Hopkinson tree and I thought she married a John Jackson in 1734.

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Tuesday 15 January 13 12:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol, Looking into all your questions by sorting the ton of papers l have
don't think l can answer the  "why or if or how the Wass family came from Derbyshire over to Ropsley or why James Wass B 1821 came to be in Spittlegate Grantham in1852 or earlier, l presume some thing to do with work, l wish l did know, it seems l got a lot of info from Family Search , also l have a christening date & paper work (Not birth certificate) for James Wass b1821 in Ropsley father William Mother Ann l got that info from "Linctothepast"  site Advised by a Gent from Roots last year,
sounds like l may be barking up the wrong tree so to speak if you don't think my wass family are from derbyshire, l am getting myself all tangled up, need to try sort it out,
                               Bye for now Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Tuesday 15 January 13 12:44 GMT (UK)
Have been taking on board Carol's worry about the link between Derbyshire and Lincolnshire..and the crucial bit appears to be James Wass 1757.......

FACT....James Wass baptised Foston Lincs 04.05.1757 son of Thomas and Amy...

FACT..Thomas Wass married Amy Bestwich at Peak Forest 1751....

Crucial question..are the two Amy's the same person??..if they are then the link is proven.

Again.....FACT...James Wass married ANN ROLLS at Ropsley 05.08.1782...WILLIAM WASS baptised 28.04.1782(before the marriage??)....son of James and Ann.........

so..they appear to be the same Ann..but was the James Wass who married her the son of Thomas and Amy BESTWICH ?????

Derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Tuesday 15 January 13 15:14 GMT (UK)
Hello L agree with the facts, the same as what l have, but l don't know how or where to prove any, just want to cry with frustration, ???
l think James is the son of Thomas & Amy Bestwich, don't ask me why but as l have the same information as you have found could some one explain to me how l found that info as well , l think l found it on I G I site would have been a couple of years ago now, l have been sorting loads & Loads of paper work family search site, Ancestry, genes united, census, re reading them but nothing Say's any thing different to what l think !!!!! l know, 
As to Carols question about Lydia marrying a Wass l have not come across any info only an old e-mail l received August2011  saying that a gravestone at N W double sided one, side 1 John d 1773  age 79  says Lydia wife of John wass she d1769 also 79years also buried with them is daughter Ann d1778
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Tuesday 15 January 13 15:23 GMT (UK)
The NW Parish Records certainly have John Wass and Lydia as parents.....and i have seen your gravestone...but nowhere can I find a marriage for John Wass and lydia..any Lydia!

The actual burial dates are..Ann 05.11.1778..John 20.10.1773 and Lydia 20.06.1769..all three were living at Pilsley at time of death..............and if its any consolation there is no other marriage of a Thomas Wass to an Amy..other than Amy Bestwich....
But that's the joy of the game!! we keep looking.....and you don't have to prove the facts...they are proven..its the links we have to prove.

derek.
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: Derbysderek on Tuesday 15 January 13 16:34 GMT (UK)
Are we perhaps getting a bit paranoid about a missing wedding?????.........
Consider this:-

FRANCIS HOPKINSON bNW 11.12.1654..married Elizabeth Hooker 01.01.1682..parents of LYDIA HOPKINSON bapt NW 30.05.1697..baptism date..not birthdate...

JOHN WASS b 1704.....and Lydia.......marriage missing..have the following children at North Wingfield.

John 1722..Thomas 1727..Ann 1731..William 1736

If I had a £10 note for every missing entry in the early records or for every young swain who conveniently forgot to get married...........I'd be very rich!
EDIT..........oops......the burial of John Wass husband of Lydia shows him to have been born 1696..and i have found a baptism at NW JOHN WASS bapt 11.05.1696 son of Ralph.....so for this to hang together John Wass 1704 son of John and Rebecca ..is wrong!!!

Derek
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Tuesday 15 January 13 17:57 GMT (UK)
Hi June

Have you checked to see if any of the Lincolnshire Wass's left a will or married by licence?
They may be a few clues if you check original documents.  I know nothing about Lincolnshire wills, but there must be someone out there who does. 

Edit --  I have just found on the National Archives site a abstract of a Will for Thomas Wass of Ropsley dated 1807.  Could this be Thomas 1725 Nth Wingfield?  Might be worth downloading a copy.

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Tuesday 15 January 13 19:31 GMT (UK)
Derek, you are right that throws every thing out the window purhapes Ralph could be the right family does that mean then that John Wass B1696 who is buired at N W could be the family l should be following meaning John Wass b 1704 is not right that makes the rest of the going back wards family wrong,  well it would, l might have to start again, oh dear l am not sure now what do you think, Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Tuesday 15 January 13 19:38 GMT (UK)
 Hi Carol do not know how or where to look for Will's, l will look at the national archives if l can do that, must admit not very good on the P C thank you for your effort & time and all your advise  Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Tuesday 15 January 13 20:11 GMT (UK)
Hi June

This should be the link to the will
(hopefully)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Result/?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_t1=thomas&_t2=wass&_t3=&_t4=lincolnshire&_sd=&_ed=&_ser=IR+26&_col=online&_sf=DRETITLE&_sf=DESCRIPTION&image1.x=37&image1.y=5

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Tuesday 15 January 13 20:13 GMT (UK)
If you can't find it, let me know and we will find another route

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Wednesday 16 January 13 15:31 GMT (UK)
Hello Carol, Thank you l have read the will for Thomas not much only a couple of lines but any thing Thomas had was left to his son "John Wass "that's all it said , but l will now go back into the site and try to find other bits/bob any ideas what to look for to enable me to prove William Wass b1782 Was the Father of James Wass b1821 also how to find out for sure who Williams B 1782, parents are l have them as  "James b1757 Foston ? mother Ann Ross or Rolls b1755? Thank you June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Wednesday 16 January 13 20:33 GMT (UK)
Hi June

Glad you down loaded it ok.

Have you been through the Ropsley PR's? 

Carol
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Saturday 19 January 13 13:49 GMT (UK)
Hi June

Not sure if this is just a coincidence or not
I looked at all the children baptised to Thomas & Amy Wass and they are.

Lydia Wass  10 Nov 1751 at Baslow, Derbyshire (not far from where Thomas & Amy married)
Thomas Wass  23 Nov 1753 Foston, Lincs
John Wass 6 April 1755 Foston, Lincs
James Wass 4 May 1757 Foston, Lincs
Amy Wass23 Jan 1760 Foston, Lincs
William Wass 26 Jan 1762 Foston, Lincs
Joseph Wass 6 Jan 1767 Ropsley, Lincs

So all the years follow on.  Concentrating on Lydia as she was the only one born in Derbyshire I found this marriage

Liddia Wass married William Bullymore 18 July 1774 at Ropsley
witnesses were Thos Wass & Thos Palmer

Carol

Title: Re: Wass
Post by: matts on Monday 21 January 13 13:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol, hope you keeping warm, Well that is strange Lydia B derbyshire is the only child l do not have, l have all the others,

would it be possible for you to look up the birth & Marriage for "William Wass" born l think 1782 at ropsley Who he married and confirm his father is a James Wass b 1757 Foston ? l think Williams siplings are a brother named James b1786  Thank you Regards June
Title: Re: Wass
Post by: sunflower on Monday 21 January 13 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi June

James Wass married Ann Rolls 5 March 1782 at Ropsley
witnesses were Thos Wass & John Falkner?

William Wass baptised 10 Nov 1782 to James & Ann at Ropsley

Ropsley is covered on Familysearch and you can confirm the information and check for witnesses on the Lincstothepast site


Carol