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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: isy on Thursday 10 January 13 21:24 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace my husband great grandfather (Paul Wheeler), born about 1827 in Germany and we think it could have been Manheim. At that time his name was Powell/Pawle Winkler, when he married his name had become Paul Wheeler. Does anyone know how we can find German births?
Thanks
Irene
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one or other of these sites may help
http://www.ihff.at/
www . genialogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm
www.genealogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm
hope that helps
jed
Moderator Comment: link edited
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Thanks Jed will try
Irene
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Have you tried the Anglo-German Family History Society (http://www.agfhs.org.uk/)?
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Hi Jed
can't seem to get this page to open - www.genealogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm
Judy
Moderator Comment: Link edited, try
www.genealogienetz.de/reg/regio.htm
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Hello Irene,
His name would always have been written Paul (the standard German spelling). Powell/Pawle are phonetic renderings of the German pronunciation.
A lot of German parish records have been made available on familysearch, but I fear they only represent a crystal of ice on the tip of the iceberg. The LDS did film many more German records including 30 different parish registers from Mannheim.
What makes you think Paul came from Mannheim?
Justin
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Evening Justin,
Thanks for your reply, we have a report produced by a Geneology research company, a copy of which was given to us by a cousin of my husband. In this report it states that the surname is not uncommon and can be "fairly comfortably localised for the Baltic ports. While I was looking through the census records I found Mannhiem scribbled on it.
That is all the information we have been able to find.
Irene
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Hello Irene,
Was it a German research company?
Like many surnames, Winkler is derived from an occupation. Winkel is the German word for an angle, but also for a recess or nook. In Low German (spoken in northern and north-eastern Germany) and Dutch, the word was used to describe a small general shop. The Winkler was the shopkeeper. It was also a term for handyman.
As such, it was not specific to a particular region or German-speaking state.
Which census records are you referring to?
Justin
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Thanks all for your help - I am checking all the information to see if I can trace Paul.
Justin,
The company that produced the report in 1988 were in Canterbury, and Mannhiem was scribbled on the 1881 Census. At that time he was working as a Railway Porter, later he was apparently a Cigar Maker.
If you have any more information I would be most grateful.
Once again thanks all
Irene
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Hello Irene,
How did the research company deduce that Paul's original surname was Winkler?
Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate from 1853? It would help to know that name of Paul's father, and the denomination of the church.
Justin
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The census referred to was 1881:
Reference RG11, Piece 453, Folio 16, Page 27
3 Grove Street, St George in the East, Tower Hamlets
Wheeler, Paul Head M 54 Railway Porter b Germany (Mannheim has been added, but I wouldn't say it was scribbled?)
Wheeler, Emily Wife F 53 b Dartford, Kent
Wheeler, Charles Son M 25 Collar Cutter b St George in the East
Wheeler, George Son M 18 Shopman b St George/East
Wheeler, Rose Daughter F 15 b St George/East
The "Mannheim" would have been added probably by the enumerator.
The marriage entry (June qtr 1853, Bethnal Green, Vol 1c, page 528), shows both Paul Wheeler and Powell Wheeler, together with Emily Smith, on the same page.
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FindMyPast is showing, for the 1851 census, a Paul Werngler, born 1828 in Germany?
Unfortunately I no longer have a sub to FindMyPast, and I can't locate the entry on Ancestry?
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FindMyPast is showing, for the 1851 census, a Paul Werngler, born 1828 in Germany?
Unfortunately I no longer have a sub to FindMyPast, and I can't locate the entry on Ancestry?
Ancestry 1851 C:
George Reed (head) 43, wool sorter born Herts.
Mary Reed 50 wife born Bedfordshire
Mary A Reed 23 daughter born Herts.
Alfred M White 16 nephew born Bedfordshire
Moss We(i)ngler 24 son, clock maker born Germany
Paul We(i)ngler 23 son, clock maker born Germany
all living at 5 Abbey Road, Bermondsey
Transcript on A'cy showed them all in one household, FindMyPast not.
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Gill just beat me to it.
The entry on ancestry also indicates a possible correction to Wangler. Looking at the original, I think it reads Werngler.
More importantly, I cannot imagine that a clock maker - a skilled tradesman - would abandon the trade to make cigars.
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Evening all,
First, sorry for the delay in replying - I did, I thought reply, but it would seem that I must have pressed the wrong button - well thats my excuse and I am sticking to it.
I have the marriage certificate for Paul and Emily and under the heading 'name and surname' it says 'Powell Wheeler' but he has signed at the bottom of the certificate 'Paul Winkler'. His father was Powell Wheeler, whose profession was stated as Independent. I have assumed from this information and that of the census is where the genealogy company came to their conclusion.
I also agree, that it would seem very unlikely that he would have changed his occupation from clockmaker to cigar maker.
Once again thank you all for your help.
Irene