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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Rootle on Thursday 10 January 13 16:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I've recently started researching, for the first time, military histories and in particular that of my great grandfather. I believe he was part of the 28th Siege Battery before presumably transferring to the 227th. It would seem that he may have undertaken two 'tours' one beginning in 1915 and the second in 1917. The long and the short of it is that i have been able to source war diaries for the 28th but now i'm looking for those of the 227th. My great grandfather was, i believe, injured on his second tour but i have no further details, i haven't been able to source pension records for him. I'm happy to order documents for the National Archives but without dates i would have to request the entire diary (last time i tried that they quoted me in excess of £500 to digitise the documents)
Can anyone suggest an alternative for obtaining them or perhaps even have a copy themselves which they may be willing to share?
Many thanks
Robin
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If you search the NA Catalogue for 227th in WO95 it says no hits. Are you sure the diary has survived? If you get no joy here I would try the Great War Forum or Firepower.org.uk. However I do not think you will get anything for free from the latter.
Ken
Added..it seems I should have just used 227
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Thanks Ken,
I have tried the NA and i'm pretty sure they have SOMETHING :) but it doesn't give much detail regarding number of pages etc. Previous experience has taught me that unless you specify EXACTLY the cost of having them scan the documents for you can be quite high. I know it's a long shot....but i guess i'm hoping someone already has a copy.
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You might get lucky here..great site anyway:
http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ww1lit/gwa/
Carol
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Thanks Carol, i'll take a look :)
Robin
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You're welcome....lots of items of interest there even if you don't find what you want.
Carol
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The following comes up on the NA site for 227th Siege Battery:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C7349625
Not available online - yet - but it does exist
jds1949
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Yup it does. I conducted the same search for the 28th Battery and i requested copies to download but it's obviously a big document so it was expensive!
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In theory all the war diaries are in process of being digitalised in time for the 2014 one hundred year anniversary - so it should become available at some point in the next two years.
jds1949
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Thats good to know. I have had the NA scan documents for me previously and as long as you know EXACTLY what it is you want/need it's not too bad.
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Hello Robin,
What rank was your great-grandfather? In my experience of infantry and artillery war diaries only the officers are ever mentioned by name.
What makes you think he may have started out in the 28th SB?
The Great War Forum really is the place to go to move your research forward. There are some very knowledgeable people, who are very willing to help a novice.
Justin
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Hello Robin,
What rank was your great-grandfather? In my experience of infantry and artillery war diaries only the officers are ever mentioned by name.
What makes you think he may have started out in the 28th SB?
The Great War Forum really is the place to go to move your research forward. There are some very knowledgeable people, who are very willing to help a novice.
Justin
Hi Justin,
The Victory Medal Roll has him listed as Bombardier in the 28th whilst the SWB Roll has him later listed as a bombardier in the 227th where i THINK he may have been promoted to Gunner. I Know that it's rare for rank & file to show by name in war diaries but i have been led to believe (family rumors) that my great grandfather was wounded by a recoiling artillery shell, resulting in the loss of his leg and being pensioned off. As i am unable to find pension records for him and his enlistment papers only cover his time in the militia i think the war diares maybe my last, albeit slim, hope of finding out what actually happened.
And you're right.....for a novice like myself this site is a goldmine!
Robin
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As has already been said it is unlikely that your man would have been mentioned in the war diary. However he may well have merited a mention in the local paper - as you seem to have his SWB information you should have his date of discharge which should give you a date range to check. If you live in the same locality as your great grandfather then might I suggest you try your local library and see if they hold copies of the relevant newsapers, many do. These will probably be on microfilm and it will be a time consuming search, but it may well be your best chance of finding what you want.
jds1949
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Thanks JDS!
I have ventured down this path before but i haven't had much luck. I wasn't entirely sure that the discharge date would actually be reflected in the paper listings. I remember reading somewhere previously that one of the national papers published a full list.
robin
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Robin,
Are you sure that it is the same man in both batteries?
Does the SWB roll not state when he was discharged? With such a severe injury, he was presumably discharged fairly soon afterwards.
What was your great-grandfather's name?
Justin
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Robin,
Are you sure that it is the same man in both batteries?
Does the SWB roll not state when he was discharged? With such a severe injury, he was presumably discharged fairly soon afterwards.
What was your great-grandfather's name?
Justin
Hi Justin,
his name was Ernest Watson - no: 29784
The number is the same on all three medal rolls and the index card so i assume i'm right in thinking that it has to be the same man.The SWB roll does give a date of discharge and i guess you would be right to suggest that he would have been discharged rapidly but that goes on the assumption that a)the rumour is accurate and b) it wasn't a relatively 'minor' injury that resulted in something worse over time. Either way i do need to check to see if there is a published record of it ..... as soon as i can figure out where to look haha.
Robin
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I have just noticed/realised that his discharge date is 6th Feb 1919 yet the war was over in late 1918....any idea as to how this is possible?
robin
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Hello Robin,
I dug out the SWB list myself yesterday and also noticed that Ernest and every other man on the page had been discharged on that date. On the page before, the SWB recipients had been discharged the day before.
That is very peculiar, unless perhaps these men had been wounded just before the Armistice and were in hospital at the time. They would no longer have needed an SWB to demonstrate to the wider public that they had served King and country, and it may have lightened the burocracy to discharge them all on the same date. However, this is all pure speculation on my part.
I have no idea how quickly men were discharged following a serious injury.
I would urge you to join the Great War Forum http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php (http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php) and pose the question to the real experts. I'd be interested to hear what you discover.
To address your original question, have you thought of hiring a private researcher? It would surely cost less than £500. If your ggf was injuried in the weeks running up the Armistice, the researcher would not have to spend too much time looking through the war diary.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
Thanks again for your advice, i'm certainly glad i'm not the only person who finds this a bit weird. I have posted the initial question on the great war forum but not the recent amendment...so i'll give that a go and let you know IF i have any joy.
I have looked at P.I but it's really not something i can justify, expense wise. Besides, for all the head scratching etc i rather enjoy the challenge of trying to figure it out myself. We'll see.... i may give in yet!
robin
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Justin,
It has been suggested , and seems plausible, that they were part of the demob process. Although it doesn't help my research any (sort of makes it more confusing) it seems reasonable.
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That doesn't help much, does it.
Can anyone tell you what Para. 2(a)(1) in the SWB list means?
Justin
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Morning Justin,
Had a quick search and i have come up with '2 a (i) After service overseas in the armed Forces of the Crown, on account of disablement or ill-health caused otherwise than by misconduct.' - http://www.crichparish.co.uk/WW1roll/WW1records/order265.html
I found a post relating to this on a ancestry forum.
Robin
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I found that too. But it refers to officers in para. 2(a).
I see that Dick Flory of GWF is on the case. He really is the expert on the RA. Is he right about the period covered by the WD at the NA?
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Hmmm i hadn't spotted that.
Yup, Dick has been helping with that, i'm currently awaiting the results. I have received a copy of the transcribed war diary for the 227th from another GWF poster, Dates from jan 1917 to 31st 10th 1917.
robin
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Hi, I've just started researching the 28th Siege Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery, Did you say that you have access to the war diaries?, I would love to read the section 1st August to 15th August 1916 when my great uncle was killed. I have a group photo of the 28th Siege Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery showing 18 men.
Do you have access to any other material on the 28th, or can you point me in the direction.
Thank you
Robert
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I have just noticed/realised that his discharge date is 6th Feb 1919 yet the war was over in late 1918....any idea as to how this is possible?
robin
it would take time to transport men home.
It would be a vast admin task of paperwork and de-mobilisation procedures
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Time you did some googling. WW1 ended in 1920 with the last peace treaty.
Ken
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Many men signed up for DoH (Duration of Hostilities)
It takes time and organisation to manage the "Transition to Peace"