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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: hamlets on Monday 07 January 13 20:45 GMT (UK)
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Joseph, William and Jane Bell (brothers and sister) were born in Drumgath in the early 1800's.
Joseph married [not yet known] and had a son, also Joseph who lived in Belfast around the 1880's.
William [to date] did not marry and died in 1892.
Jane (d.1901) married Henry O'Neill of Carrickarnan/Ravensdale and had issue. Amongst them were dau Susan who m. Isaac Irvine of Drumgath and they had daus. Elizabeth Anne and Martha Jane.
Can anybody in the Rathfriland area identify this family or provide any details?
Thank you,
Hamlets
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Hi,
There are quite a few Bells of Drumgath listed in the Ros Davies site. See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/Afrontpage.htm
Regards
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Hi, Can you place the family in any Townland as the parish of Drumgath takes in part of Rathfriland as well as a rural area.
Have a look at raymondscountydownwebsite.com
There still is Bell families living in the Rathfriland area.
Cheers, Sam.
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Hello and thanks for your interest.
Yes, there are quite a few (zillions!) Bells in that region - this was one of my reasons in posting as it might help me avoide a trudge through all those names!
The townlands are Lisnavaghrog and Lessize - these were mentioned in the Will of William Bell who died on 26 April 1892.
In this Will are mentioned quite a few names and it has helped me solve some long-standing questions. (See his Will under Belfast Calendars at PRONI).
Regards,
hamlets
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Hi, I do not think that there is any of the Bell family living in either of those two townlands at present. As part of the townland of Lissize includes part of Rathfriland have you got more info on the address for the family that lived in Lissize. I know that there was a Bell family lived in Main St. but some of that family emigrated to the U.S.A.
Cheers, Sam.
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Hamlets: Isaac & Susan Irvine, daughters Martha and Lizzie show in the 1901 Census in Drumlough, Drumgath. This townland is adjacent to Lessize townland where you indicate your Bell family came from. You can search in the Freeholder Records and it shows a number of Bell names for the Drumlough townland with many of the early names you record. You could check out these families for connections.
1788 Freeholder Record shows a Henry Bell in Lisnavaghog.
Lorna Dalzell LeBrun
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1834 Irish Tithe Applotment Books from the simple record
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/drumgath-parish.php#.WCdjWXecYwQ originals in PRONI Belfast
Bell, Daniel Townland: Barmeen Year: 1834
Bell, David Townland: Kiltarriff Year: 1834
Bell, Edward Townland: Cross Year: 1834
Bell, Edwd. Townland: Lessize Year: 1834
Bell, James Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Jno. Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Jno. Townland: Tullyquilly Year: 1834
Bell, John Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Joseph Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Robert Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Sampson Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Widow Townland: Drumgrenagh Year: 1834
Bell, William Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Willm. Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Willm. Townland: Kiltarriff Year: 1834
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Hello to all,
I'm tracking my 2nd great grandfather Alexander Bell son of William Bell; husband of Eliza Donaldson, daughter of John Donaldson. I'd appreciate any tips in investigating families in Drumlough and Barnmeen.
Thanks,
Ed
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Can you find Alex on 1901 Census?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mta/
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1911 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mtb/
I'd look but don't have any clue as to his age or if he was alive then or not
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tried https://www.ancestryireland.com
births
ALEXANDER BELL 1876 father WILLIAM Down
marriage
tried Ros Davies Co Down website http://www.rosdavies.com
Miss Elizabeth DONALDSON . Drumgath regd. Rathfriland; wife of Alexander Bell; mother of Samuel b. 1869
tried https://www.emeraldancestors.com
1857 Alexander BELL Eliza Emmerald Newry Down
1857 Alexander Emmerald Eliza DONALDSON Newry Down
worrying about newry district Drumgath civil parishis to the NE of Newrycivil parish sook by checking Ros Davies parish map of Co Down
all the above gives
William Bell
children
Alexander Bell m 1857 Miss Elizabeth Donaldson Drumgath parish Regd. Rathfriland
children
Samuel Bell b 1869
I coulnt find further info on Samuel
try familysearch.org
looking for Barmeen try http://www.rosdavies.com/PLACENAMES/BanBy.htm
checking two major records
learn to use https://www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php the result is
Bell Martha Church Street,Rathfryland Drumgath Down
Bell Martha Cross Drumgath Down
Bell Alexander Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell John Newry Street,Rathfryland Drumgath Down
Bell Robert Cross Drumgath Down
Bell Robert Drumgreenagh Drumgath Down
Bell Sarah Newry Street,Rathfryland Drumgath Down
Bell Samuel Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell Robert Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell John John Street,Rathfryland Drumgath Down
Bell John Tullyquilly Drumgath Down
Bell David Ballykeel Drumgath Down
Bell John Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell Anne Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell Andrew Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell David Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell Daniel Barnmeen Drumgath Down
Bell David Kiltarriff Drumgath Down
Bell Jane John Street,Rathfryland Drumgath Down
Bell John Drumlough Drumgath Down
Bell James Drumlough Drumgath Down
sort the above by townland learn how to look up any of the above people in http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ spend time using every heading inc map references then more time using the townland and hopefully finding the exact homesteadof the person showing fields and buildings not good when in large villages etc
back to church records use ros Davies church section for church records for Drumgath I noticed a very early Bell in drumgath
good luck lots of fun
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a bit more
use census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
bell drumgath eg 1901
Bell David Glenny Ballykeel Drumgath Down 58 M County Down Farmer Presbyterian Read and write Head of Family Married
Bell Margaret E Ballykeel Drumgath Down 17 F England Farmer Presbyterian Read and write Visitor Not Married
Bell Sarah Ballykeel Drumgath Down 44 F County Down Presbyterian Read and write Wife Married
Bell Jeanny Barnmeen Drumgath Down 56 F Co Down Farmer Roman Catholic Read and write Head of Family Not Married
try the same for 1911
try lennonwylie for street directories it will not be easy but rathfriland is listed under one of her headings if you want earlier records that just name a person and a bit about land quality try
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/drumgath-parish.php#.W7cnPC-ZNEItry
ie
Bell, Daniel Townland: Barmeen Year: 1834
Bell, David Townland: Kiltarriff Year: 1834
Bell, Edward Townland: Cross Year: 1834
Bell, Edwd. Townland: Lessize Year: 1834
Bell, James Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Jno. Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Jno. Townland: Tullyquilly Year: 1834
Bell, John Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Joseph Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Robert Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Sampson Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Widow Townland: Drumgrenagh Year: 1834
Bell, William Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Willm. Townland: Drumlough Year: 1834
Bell, Willm. Townland: Kiltarriff Year: 1834
if you dont live in Co down try learning to get griffiths maps to switch to modern google satelitte views then clicking sometimes produces small street scene which means yo can go up and down the roads ancestors walked on spotting old buildings
goo luck
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Hi Ed:
RE: Alexander Bell m. Elizabeth Donaldson 30 April, 1857 (estimated birth dates 1834). Their marriage was listed as Drumgath (Rathfriland) and the registration was listed as Rathfriland, Newry. I went through the records for 2nd and 3rd Rathfriland Church to see if I could locate them for you, but unfortunately did not find them. You may not find them on the 1901 Census as they would be in their late 60's and perhaps no longer alive.
RE: William Bell I found a 2nd Church record in 1825 for William Bell & Mary Park having their 5th child, but no other records of the previous children so perhaps they moved from another Church. No way to tell if this Wm. is connected.
RE: Joseph Bell I found a 2nd Church record for Joseph Bell & xxx McKee baptising their first daughter in Jan. 1863, which would indicate they were married in 1862. Family search does show Joseph Bell (son of Joseph) marrying Mary Ann McKee in Jan. 1862 in Drumgath. No way to know if they are connected to your family.
Perhaps having these additional names will open some new sources.
It is a difficult process and the records are hard to find. I wish you good luck.
I will keep search for you and perhaps something further will show up.
Dalzell.
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hi Ed, ‘Dalzell’s contribution has narrowed your potential remaining sources for essential church records. my question on the registered Rathfriland is that could be a civil ceremony, perhaps not a church marriage?
from the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland online Guide to Church records
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide_to_church_records.pdf
DRUMGATH, CO. DOWN
C.I. Drumgath (Dromore diocese)
[Earliest registers destroyed in Dublin]
Vestry minutes and churchwardens’ account book, 1822-91.
Preachers’ book, 1818-60.
Baptisms, 1881-; marriages, 1846-; preachers’ books, 1893-.
P. 1st Rathfriland and P. 2nd Rathfriland see Dalzell above.
P. 3rd Rathfriland
Baptisms, 1834-1934; marriages, 1834-1935; communion roll, 1865-79.
Minute book of Sunday School, 1833-82, and roll book, 1853-80, with gaps.
R.C. Drumgath (Dromore diocese)
Baptisms, 1829-81; marriages and burials, 1837-80.
R.P. Rathfriland
Baptisms, 1857-1916; marriages, 1864-1943; deaths, 1857-68 and 1925-84; admissions, 1857-1972; lists of members with details of emigrations, deaths and marriages, 1884-1944; lists of members removed, 1924-45; session minutes, 1857-1908; history of the church, published in 1977.
Dalzells contribution has narrowed your potential remaining sources for church records, my take on the registered Rathfriland is that it was a civil ceremony
the 1901 census
40 in Barnmeen (Drumgath, Down)
Bell Jeanny 56 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Down Farmer Read and write - Not Married -
Keenan Bridget 12 Female Visitor Roman Catholic Co Down Scholar Read and write - Not Married
Crey Sam 29 Male Boarder Presbyterian Co Down Agricultural Labourer Read and write - Not Married
18 in Ballykeel (Drumgath, Down)
Bell David Glenny 58 Male Head of Family Presbyterian County Down Farmer Read and write - Married -
McLaughlin William J 17 Male Servant Epescoplian Co Armagh Servant Read and write - Not Married
Bell Margaret E 17 Female Visitor Presbyterian England Farmer Read and write - Not Married -
Bell Sarah 44 Female Wife Presbyterian County Down - Read and write - Married -
the 1911 census
49 in Barnmeen (Drumgath, Down)
Bell Fanny 66 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Down Farmer Read and write - Single - - - -
Crey Samuel 42 Male Servant Presbyterian Co Down Farm Servant Read and write -
Keenan Bridget 21 Female Lodger Roman Catholic Co Down Scholar Read and write Irish and English Single -
22 in Tullyquilly (Drumgath, Down)
Bell James 64 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Down Agricultural Labourer Cannot Read - Married - - -Bell Elizabeth 42 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Down - Cannot Read - Married - 21 [m 1891] 6 born 1 living
106 in Newry Street (Rathfryland, Down)
Bell David Glenny 71 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Ireland, Co Down Retired Farmer Read and write - Married - 25 [m ~1887] -Bell Sarah 56 Female Wife Presbyterian Ireland, Co Down - Read and write - Married - 25 - -
1864 Griffiths Valuation http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ Barmeen townland
has a Daniel Bell at No 50 10 acres, house valued £1pa checking property
checking in Griffiths Valuation continuation sheets in PRONI
VAL/12/B/22/10B (1866 - 1882) shows a Bell first name crossed out twice Daniel is one of the names
VAL/12/B/22/10B (1883 - 1893) ) shows a Jane Bell 10 acres, house valued £1pa
VAL/12/B/22/10C (1894 - 1908) shows a Jane Bell with alterations in mo 50
VAL/12/B/22/10D (1909 - 1929) shows a Jane Bell in No 50 is taken over in 1916 by a James Keenan
note Fanny/ jeanny bell had a bridget keenan living with herin 1901, 1911
good luck onwards
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Hi Ed:
William and Alexander Bell of Drumlough.
I have documented from 1769 Freeholder Records through to 1929 PRONI Valuation Records. There were other Bell families in the same area but I just focused on the land #7 James/William Bell to Isaac and Susan Irvine; and #37 Alexander & Samuel Bell to John A Bell to William Bell.
Maybe something will help you track your family.
Bells of Drumlough
Records in chronological order for the earliest to the latest Bell families in Drumlough.
1769 Freeholder List: (first record in Drumlough)
#363 Alexander Bell
#368 John Bell (rejected)
#369 James Bell
#370 William Bell
1789 Freeholder List: (second registration & addition of their sons)
#824 William Bell
#825 Alexander Bell
#826 Samuel
#827 James
PRONI Freeholder records
Lease of Lives in a Deed indicates usually three lives of children /grandchildren of the person taking the lease. The lease expired when all three named had died.
1813 Joseph Bell - Lives of James, Joseph & James Bell)
James Bell -(Lives of James Bell)
1815 William Bell - (Lives of Alex Bell, Joseph Morrow & Margaret Bell)
James Bell - (Lives of John & Samuel Bell & John Donaldson)
John Bell - (Lives of James & Isabella Bell & John Woods)
1823 James Bell - (Lives of John & Samuel Bell & John Donaldson)
William Bell - (Lives of Alexander Bell, Joseph Morrow & Margaret Bell)
John Bell - (Lives of John & Samuel Bell & John Donaldson)
John Bell - (Lives of James & Isabella Bell & John Woods)
1864 The records then jump to 1864 with the Griffith’s Valuation Records:
#7 Drumlough - James Bell 19A 2R 35P
#37 Drumlough - Alexander Bell 3A 1 R 25P
John Bell, Grocer 1P 20R
#7 Valuation Records of James Bell 19A 2R 35P
1866 Changes from James Bell to William Bell
1893 Changes from William Bell (d. 23 May 1892) to Isaac Irvine
1895 Changes from Isaac Irvine to Wm. & Joseph Bell
1913 Split into two sections A & B
7A Isaac Irvine changes to Susan Irvine
7B Joseph Bell/William Bell changes to James McCartney 1916 then to John Graham 1920
1924 7A Susan Irvine changes to Elizabeth A. Annett
7B John Graham
1923/ 7A Elizabeth Annett
1929 7B John Graham
Note: 1911 Census Isaac and Susan Irvine’s name is spelled Irwin. They are registered in Drumlough with their daughters Martha and Elizabeth (Lizzie).
#37 Valuation Records for Alexander Bell 3A 1R 25P
1866 a) Alexander Bell
b) John Bell (Grocer) House and garden – changed in 1878 to Alexander & Samuel Bell
Changed in 1886 to John A. Bell
1895 a) Alex Bell to Elizabeth Bell
b) Alex Bell & John A. Bell to Reps. 1896 (d. 9 Sep. 1895)
1907 John A. Bell to William Bell
1920-23 William Bell
1923-29 William Bell
Dalzell
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Looking over this information and I don't think I properly thanked you for all your efforts on my behalf. I put this research down for some time and I'm just picking it back up.
Sincerely,
Ed
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KG