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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Menfreya on Friday 03 June 05 00:22 BST (UK)
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My Great Grandmother was called Bertha Brassington, she married Charles Thursfield. Apparently they divorced and he went on to marry again. My problem is finding any information about her. I think she must have been about 6 in 1901, but I don't know who her parents were or where exactly she was born.
My mum seems to remember she lived with/ married an Indian doctor by the name of R Signa.
Where on earth is best place to start. I've looked on the census 1901 but there a number of possibilities.
If any one has any ideas they would be much appreciated.
Thanks
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Hi Menfreya,
Since you have exact names for a marriage, the best thing might be to track down that certificate. This will give you the ages of both Bertha and Charles and the names and occupations of their fathers, which will put you on the right track when you start hunting back through the censuses.
You can do this online through 1837online. com (a paying site) or I imagine if you are in Britain you can do it manually.
Hope this helps get you started.
Ros
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Hi Ros,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give then a go as I know quite a lot about Charles.
I'm quite new to this family history research, but I now I've kinda got the bug!
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Hi
I research the Thursfield family mainly. Charles & Bertha were married in 1914. Bertha Brassingtons on the 1901 census are
Bertha Brassington 2 Yorkshire Austerlands Yorkshire West Riding Springhead
Bertha Brassington 4 Staffs Leek Coventry Coventry
Bertha Brassington 6 Staff Betley Staffordshire Betley Entire
Bertha Brassington 7 Staff Stafford Stafford Stoke On Trent
Bertha Brassington 10 Staffs Heaton Stafford Leek
Bertha Brassington 15 Derby Somersal Stafford Uttoxeter General Servant Domestic
Bertha Brassington 19 Staffordshire Betley Leicester Leicester Formerly The Newarke
Bertha Brassington 27 Worcests Radferton Warwickshire Warwick St Nicholas
Bertha Brassington 33 Staffs Weston On Trent Staffordshire Hanley
Sorry not much help. Your next step is to access the 1901 census & get a full read out for Bertha.
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Hi madabout.
1914 sounds perfect as my nan was born 1915.
I am looking at the census as suggested at the moment for Bertha.
Do you know anything about Charles' second marriage at all?
Thanks for the help
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Hi Menfreya
Yes Phyllis is on the civil registration index 1915 Stoke on Trent mothers maiden name Brassington.
I have put some details about Charles 2nd marriage on the rootsweb site(family tree look up Charles Thursfield) It's free to look at if you haven't used it before. http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1986841&id=I98771277
best wishes
madabout
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Thanks madabout.
I have been onto that site.
I'm guessing from what my mum has told me that my nan lived with William and Elizabeth Thursfield as a child.
It was strange though to see that my nan had step-brothers and sister. We always thought, as she did, that she was an only child.
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I have been in touch with close family members & they didn't mention Phyliss. They are some on the Genes Reunited site. I am a member so will try & get them to look at this site.
All sounds a bit sad to me.
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Cheers madabout
I may be able to share some knowledge with them about my nan's side. But you're right, it is sad when families get divided like that.
It was actually through Rootsweb that I discovered Charles had married again. All I knew up to then was that he had moved somewhere near London when He and Bertha divorced. I guessed his other family knew little of Phylis as the family tree ended with her.
Regards
menfreya
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I'm surprised they were divorced because it was a costly do, have you got a copy of their divorce papers.
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Hi madabout
No copy of divorce papers, due to family fall outs. In fact very little even in the form of photos. I have two of Bertha one taken in the late 70's I think and no photos of Charles.
The information I have is what my nan told my mum and that isn't much.
But as Bertha didn't die until much later how else could he have remarried?
Oh boy do I feel as if I'm getting out of my depth!
Regards
menfreya
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It would be interesting to see a copy of Charles Thursfield's 2nd marriage certificate, to see how he described his marital status. Have checked on the net & come up with this statement.
The real opening of divorce to all classes took place in the 1920s, with the extension of legal aid, and the provision of some local facilities.
So it looks like divorce by Bertha would have been possible.
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I have found a death for William Thursfield in 1928 age 69 Stoke on Trent. The nearest match I have for his wife is Elizabeth Thursfield 1953 age 96 Stoke on Trent.
You could try writing to Charles Thursfield's son he is in the phone book. My email address is the one given on the rootsweb site.
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Thanks madabout
I'll check with my mum she may remember my nan saying about her grandparents deaths.
You don't happen to anything about Charles' death at all?
I would feel a bit strange writing to someone I don't know. Would he mind being contacted?
I'll see if there is anything else I can find out from my mum as well.
Thanks again.
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Hi
Have got Charles died 1980 age 86. Wandsworth reg. district. His birth date was 21 July 1894.
I'm not sure if you would get a reply from the family. I am still waiting to hear from them via Genes Reunited.
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As your mum heard of Cyril Thursfield who played for Stoke City. Have got a photo of him dated 1959-60. Got him down as son of William brother to Charles.
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She has mentioned a Cyril nicknamed "Bunty" but he could be from another side of the family entirely. I will check with her though.
I do remember seeing one of those old brass WW1 tins that were handed to the soldiers which I'm sure she said was given to her by her Granny Thursfield, but I've no idea who it belonged to.
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Charles Thursfield
N. Staff Regt
Sergeant 1637 Vic/BWM F/105 B24 3429
Linc Regt
Sergeant 238141 1915 Star F/4C 39
N. Staff Regt 200113
Entered France 5 March 1915
Demobbed 14 Feb 1919
Might have been Charles's tin
Cyril Thursfield was an electrical fitter in 1965, his brother Dennis William was a painter & decorator
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Jan (John Thursfield's granddaughter) has been in touch, she is going to ask her aunt about Charles.
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Hi Menfreya
have spoken to Jan over the phone, her mum Mary born 1913 did talk about your nan.
Jan is going to see if she can find out anything which would be of interest to you.
I think it's the Bertha Brassington born Stafford which is the one you are looking for. Do you know who she was living with on the 1901 census
all the best
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Hi,
I am Amy Thursfield. I think the Charles Thursfield who married your great grandmother was my grandfather. He married my grandmother Edith in 1926 and they had 3 children, William, Edna and Charles. William died in 1990.
I don't think any of his children knew that my grandfather had been married before until after he died and they certainly didn't know he had other children.
I am sure my Dad would be interested to know more and if there is anything you want me to try and find out just let me know.
Amy
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Hi Madabout
Thanks for the info on Charles' Army career in WW1. When I mentioned this to my mum she said that she hadn't known him to have been in the war but that it would make sense for the tin to be Charles' as was given to her by Bertha.
I asked her about Cryil she now thinks the nickname may be wrong but she did remember the name and she was interested to hear he played for Stoke.
With regards to Bertha I have a couple of pieces from the 1901 census
37 Shelton Old Road
RG13/2608
Samuel Brassington Head 37 Tailor b. Leek
Lucy " Wife 40 b. Birmingham
Christopher " Son 19 Railway porter b.Stafford
Samuel " Son 17 Pottters figure maker b. Manchester
Leonard " Son 11 b. Leek
Bertha " Daur 7 b. Stafford
George " Son 5 b. Stoke-on-Trent
Or it could be
Cracow Moss, Betley Entire
RG13/2584
John Brassington Head 28 Railway worker b. Staffs Betley
Sarah A " Wife 27 b. " "
Arthur " Son 7 b. " "
Bertha M " Daur 6 b. " "
Nellie " Daur 4 b. " "
John " Son 3 b. " "
Rose " Daur 2 b. " "
I'm not sure yet which of the two it is My mum is racking her brains trying to remember if she wasever told Bertha's mothers' name.
Thanks also for contacting Jan for me.
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Hi Amy
Thanks for getting in touch.
I have spoken to my mum, She still lives in Stoke and she was surprised to hear about your side of the family. My nan never mentioned that her dad had remarried and had other children so one can only assume she never knew herself or never chose to discuss it.
Unfortunately Phyllis died in 1989, and she never really discussed much about her childhood. So the sketchy details I have are via my mum who is trying to recollect things from her childhood.
In an earlier post Madabout mentions Elizabeth Thursfield (Charles' Mother). My mum does remember going to visit her as a young girl when Elizabeth celbrated her 96th Birthday. She said the house was full of flowers and that she had a telegram or something like that from the Queen. She died shortly after I understand.
We'll chat soon I hope.
Regards
Menfreya
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Hi
Have got Elizabeth Thursfield died 1953 Stoke on Trent age 96.
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http://rmslusitania.info/pages/second_cabin/
have found the above site which has Gertrude Walker (maiden name Thursfield) She was the daughter of Alfred Thursfield who was related to this branch of the Thursfields.
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Hi madabout
Been away taxing my mums brain about the family and apparently my uncle is doing a search too but I don't know how far he has got yet!
She did tell me Phylis was a nippie for Lyons tea rooms back in the thirties, she would have been in her late teens I think, before she got married but not sure of the details yet.
Thanks for the info on Gertrude and Elizabeth. Mum does remember visiting Elizabeth on her birthday.
She also remebers an Aunt Kate, I think this may be Kate Rawlins.
My mum has told some of her siblings about my search so they may remember something as well so I'll carry on hunting.
Will have to try and get hold of Bertha's marriage cert. Find out who is her father.
Thanks again for the info
regards
Menfreya
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Hi Menfreya
Have Phyliss married in 1940 Stoke on Trent.
I think the best idea is to get a copy of Bertha's marriage to Charles. You can get the relevant details for the marriage from a civil registration index which is held at some local libraries & local record offices, and at LDS Family History centres. Then it's possible to order the certificate online. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/index.asp
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Hi madabout
Yes Phyllis married Percy Mons Knott in Tunstall register office in 1940. He died 1973. Was a miner most of his life.
Trying to work out also why he is called Mons, born 1914 called after a battle in WW1 but that's a whole new topic! ;D
Will check out the site you mentioned as well
Cheers.
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Hi Menfreya
There must be some reason for the middle name Mons, hopefully you will find out one day.
You will have to let us know how you get on with Bertha's marriage certificate.
Madabout
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Family memories say that the Bertha born in Stafford married a gentleman from the Indian subcontinent - sometime around the end of WW1. They also place her as a market trader in Newcastle-u-Lyme. Her parents were Samuel and Lucy Brassington
Brasso :)
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That has sorted Bertha Brassington out. I'm sure Menfreya will be very pleased.
Have you by any chance lost a John Brassington. He & his wife Ann have a son Samuel Brassington chr. 1822 Blackfordby, Leics. On the 1851 census Samuel is a potter.
It looks like they are the 1st family of Brassingtons in the area. I wonder if they have drifted down from the Potteries.
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Hi brasso
Thanks for the reply I have also just read your message as well. I must confess family history searching has been a bit sporadic as of late due to an on going battle wih a mobile phone mast application and the local planning department! Once this is sorted, soon I hope, I can once again submerge myself in family history. I will look through all that I have at present in a bit more detail and see how your information links in, I must admit it looks promising. :)
regards
Menfreya
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Hi madabout
I don't know of any John Brassingtons but I will keep a look out for the name.
Regards
Menfreya