RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: GailS on Friday 04 January 13 04:43 GMT (UK)

Title: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Friday 04 January 13 04:43 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

Was at the resource room today and looking at the births fiches (at least I think that is what they are called)  :)

I noticed a number next to the name, could someone please enlighten me. The name is Francis Henry NEIL born in 1869, and the number was 682.

 BDM has his parents as Hannah and Hugh.

Many thanks,
Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 04 January 13 04:55 GMT (UK)
Gail, if this was a NZ birth, and they tend to do things like we do in Oz, the second number would be the number given for registration in that year, i.e. the 682nd birth registered for that area in 1869.
If it's a very populous area, it would indicate (to me anyway) somewhere in the first half of the year, but if it is a sparsely populated place, it would indicate towards the end of the year.

Dawn M
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Friday 04 January 13 06:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Dawn,

Thanks for your info. Have narrowed down his birthdate to the 13th Nov. I was hoping the number would indicate the area of NZ he was born in.

Might just have to order a printout  :)

Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Friday 04 January 13 06:35 GMT (UK)
The number can be looked up against the printed guide books that will tell you where the birth was registered. These will usually located where you found the fiche
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: BegClonrode .... on Friday 04 January 13 06:36 GMT (UK)
Hello Gail...

EDIT: Snap Althea :-)

Where is the pop-up for new messages posted gone...

The numbers on both the Births and Deaths fiches relate to the district in which a birth or death was registered. More often than not it's also the district in which the event occured, but not always.

The registration district can be found by referring to "The District Keys to the NZ Registration Indexes", a series of books which normally sit alongside the fiches.

The number on a Marriage fiche does not relate to the registration district but to the spouse. To find the spouse you use Varcoe's New Zealand Marriages Index (http://marvin.otago.ac.nz/marriages/). To my knowledge there is no easy way of finding the registration district of a NZ marriage. ITM's and PapersPast come closest. Happy to be corrected.

The numbers on the B,D and M fiches do not correspond to the numbers on the BDM NZ website.

Regards
Beg
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Fresh Fields on Friday 04 January 13 06:46 GMT (UK)
Hello from NZ

New Zealand Historic Birth, Deaths & Marriages is a good place to start. Others who have Genealogy Society data bases at home can fill you in better than I.

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

As an example, for the ten year period 1865 to 1875 I get 35 NEIL registered births.

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2fqueryEntry.m%3ftype%3dbirths#SearchResults


Papers Past finds 130 NEIL “BIRTH” notices in the same ten year period. Refine the search, and narrow down the results.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=q&hs=1&r=1&results=1&t=0&txq=Neil+birth&pbq=&dafdq=&dafmq=&dafyq=1865&datdq=&datmq=&datyq=1875&tyq=&o=10&sf=&ssnip=&e=-------10--1----0Neil+birth--&x=34&y=2



- Alan.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Friday 04 January 13 07:25 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your replies.

I will have to go back and have a look in the guide books  :)

Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 04 January 13 23:13 GMT (UK)
Hello,

The births & deaths "guide books" called District Keys in association with the numbering on the fiche, also show the quarter of the year in which the birth or death was registered.

Minniehaha.  :)
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: BegClonrode .... on Saturday 05 January 13 01:51 GMT (UK)

Quote from: GailS
Have narrowed down his birthdate to the 13th Nov. I was hoping the number would indicate the area of NZ he was born in.

Hello...

Was just passing the library and checked the district.

1869/682 - West Taieri

Sep-Dec quarter.

Regards
Beg
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Saturday 05 January 13 02:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks Beg  :)

Hmmmm the questions just keep coming.............wish I knew more about his parents.....if in fact they are "my" Hugh and Hannah.

Best wishes,
Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Saturday 05 January 13 04:19 GMT (UK)
You need to work back from the present day
based on facts eg Certificates
Does this birth registration area not fit with where they Lived
Are there other siblings you can compare with
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 05 January 13 04:22 GMT (UK)
Hello,

There is another child born to Hugh & Hannah..............Francis* Hannah, birth registered in 1873. Would it be worth having a look at this one to see where registered?

*Spelling as shown.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Saturday 05 January 13 05:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the replies minniehaha and althea,

Yes the other child born to Hannah and Hugh is definatley mine (she is my Great Grandmother) she was born in Westport (according to her marrige cert) and I think it would definatley be worth having at look at what the guide book says as there is what looks like a question mark after that entry of "Birthplace" on the cert.

Hugh was a baker and a missionary (new piece of info to me) and seemed to live all over........Otago, New Plymouth, Bay of Islands, Westport and Wanganui. These are the ones I know about)

Hugh and Hannah married in Westport on 8th Oct 1868, so dates for a birth would fit  :)

I have looked at the Dunedin cemetery site and there are a lot of "NEIL's" buried there, but seems a bit odd another couple being Hugh and Hannah. (I am doing a lot of checking as I got caught with something very similar that happened last year, but the names were a bit more common)

On both Hugh and Hannah's death certs it dosn't state a living male, only daughter Frances is mentioned (and Hugh's daughters from his first marriage) (Scotland)

Thanks for everyones input, I am off to have a look at BDM am having an idea (will report back on my theory)

Gail
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Saturday 05 January 13 05:32 GMT (UK)
O.K (please forgive my brain ticking away here)

Looking at the New Zealand BDM, there are only 2 ladies called Hannah Neil who died in NZ since 1840, my Hannah and another lady who wouldn't have been born untill 1880's.

Same time frame for Hugh, there are three of them, and the other 2 dont really fit either.

Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 05 January 13 07:09 GMT (UK)
When did Hugh & Hannah die? Where did they die? How old was their daughter at the time of the death registrations?

Just trying to build up a picture here.............

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Saturday 05 January 13 07:23 GMT (UK)
Both Hugh and Hannah died and are buried in Wanganui, Hugh in 1901 and Hannah in 1912. Hugh's death cert gives Frances age as 31, and Hannahs as 42.

Previous to living in Wanganui they were in New Plymouth, and lived in Westport in the 1870's where Hugh has a bakery called the "Glasgow bakery"

Hugh was also involved in many church things and possibly a freemason. Not sure when exactly he came to NZ but I tend to think early 1860's. He was a baker when he lived in Scotland also.

Maybe between all of us we can make a bigger picture  :) or even a more clearer one would be good.

Gail.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Saturday 05 January 13 07:26 GMT (UK)
Is it your tree at ancestry?
only the one female child given from NZ marriage
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 05 January 13 07:27 GMT (UK)
You probably have these details............... From 'papers past'.

Death of Hugh Neil in the Wanganui Herald 7.8.1901*

Frances Hannah mentioned same newspaper 5.1.1892

Death of Hannah Neil reported in Wanganui Chronicle 21.2.1912.*

*Links in these reports to their daughter.

Probate (1901) held @ Archives for Hugh Neil.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 05 January 13 07:33 GMT (UK)
The age shown in the newspaper death notice for Hugh Neil in 1901 is -"in his 72nd year".

The daughter is referred to as Mrs. W. J. Andrew.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: GailS on Saturday 05 January 13 07:34 GMT (UK)
Yes thank you I do have those........not the probate tho, so thank you for that (sure you will see a request sometime soon)  ;D

Also in Papers Past Hugh pops up for going too fast around a corner (lol) and selling bread that wasn't the correct weight..........I wonder if he was horrified given he was a church going man?

Many thanks minniehaha.

Gail.

Yes that is correct for Frances married name, she married William Jeffery ANDREW.
Title: Re: What do the numbers mean? Francis Henry NEIL
Post by: Fresh Fields on Saturday 05 January 13 10:12 GMT (UK)
Hello again.

QUOTE:
Hugh was also involved in many church things, and possibly a freemason. Not sure when exactly he came to NZ but I tend to think early 1860's. He was a baker when he lived in Scotland also. 
END of QUOTE

Freemason records can be very revealing, if you can get some hard evidence of where and at what time he was a mason.

- Alan.