RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: ERT on Sunday 30 December 12 12:31 GMT (UK)
-
Hi
I am trying to find the maiden name of Martha Franks (born circa 1850 in Crayford, Kent - according to the census), but am having no success.
I have her on the 1871 and 1881 census, married to Charles Franks and with their two children - Elizabeth Ann (born 1869) and Charles Thomas Franks (born 1871). I can't find Martha's marriage or parents to go further back on her line. Can anyone help?
-
Not that it helps,but it looks as though Martha re-married Dec Qtr 1886 in Holborn to Walter William SOUTHGATE. You could try for that marriage cert.
Getting one of the children's birth certs might be a good idea as well.
Maureen
-
Not sure if this helps but there are joint baptisms in 1878 for an Anne Elizabeth Franks and Charles Thomas Franks parents Charles and Margaret. Charles is a basket maker. Has to be the same couple as address same as the census.
-
Charles Franks senior is also a basket maker on the census return, so that makes sense. I'll try to find the joint baptisms that you have discovered. I can't seem to find the birth certificates at the moment.
Thanks
-
Really good news. The details on Martha (or Margaret's) second marriage to Walter William Southgate shows details of a father - George Watson. So I am now able to research Martha Watson or Margaret Watson born circa 1850 at Crayford, Kent.
Thanks so much for the help, as I was really stuck.
-
Does it give an occupation for George Watson and does it say she is a widow?
I still can't find a birth for her or a marriage to Charles Franks. Am wondering if she married him at all :-\ the children were baptised some years later - do we know when Charles died?
-
I was struggling to find which district Crayford came under but the 1891 for her gives Chatham so she could be the Martha Watson b Mar 1851 Medway.
She can't have been married before she would have been too young but I just can't find a marriage to Charles.
-
I'll have a look at that - might be her. Her 'second' marriage is listed under the London, England, Marriage & Banns 1754-1921. It gives the date of Martha Franks marriage as December 19th 1886 and her father is listed as George Watson. I am struggling to read his profession, but I think that it may say tailor.
-
I was struggling to find which district Crayford came under but the 1891 for her gives Chatham so she could be the Martha Watson b Mar 1851 Medway.
Crayford came under the Dartford Registration District.
-
Thanks I see it now. Difficult to read isn't it.
1851 Chatham there is a Martha Watson b Chatham 2 months old with mother Caroline Watson 25 (23?)
Caroline is a soldiers wife and the husband is missing so we don't know if George or not.
Caroline is born Warwickshire.
-
I suspect Charles and Martha did not marry this looks to be him with a different wife in 1861 in Liverpool
Thomas Sutton 35
Eliza Sutton 22
Charles Franks 22 - b Wolverhampton, basket maker, married [boarder]
Sarah Franks 18 - b Wolverhampton, married [boarder]
Mary Marsh 22
RG 9 / 2695 / 35 / 5
-
Martha was also listed as a widow on her second marriage, which implies she was married before, but I can't find any evidence of her first 'marriage' either.
I don't have a date of death for Charles Franks her first husband and the last information I have is the 1881 census.
Her daughter Elizabeth Ann had a lot of children and one of them has an interesting middle name of Margesson - might be an old surname.
-
I suspect Charles and Martha did not marry this looks to be him with a different wife in 1861 in Liverpool
Thomas Sutton 35
Eliza Sutton 22
Charles Franks 22 - b Wolverhampton, basket maker, married [boarder]
Sarah Franks 18 - b Wolverhampton, married [boarder]
Mary Marsh 22
RG 9 / 2695 / 35 / 5
Be careful!
The census doesn't say they are married to each other! ;D
It's an easy assumption to make, and you'd br right 99% of the time, but . . . . !!
-
Her daughter Elizabeth Ann had a lot of children and one of them has an interesting middle name of Margesson - might be an old surname.
Interesting - I just came across a Charles Franks b Wolverhampton in 1860, with his grandmother Jemima Magness and mother Eliza Franks - she seems to have married a Charles Franks in Dudley district in 1860! As there was also a Sarah in this marriage quartet, thought it might be Charles and Sarah, but maybe not.
-
I couldn't find Margesson on the Franks side, so will have look at that. I was assuming it might be on the Watson line, possibly George's wife, or perhaps Elizabeth Ann just liked inventing interesting middle names.
I'll investigate the missing soldier as it might explain why a girl from Kent met a basket maker from Wolverhampton.
-
Martha dau of Robert and Caroline WATSON baptised Brompton (Chatham) Garrison church 7 Feb 1851 of Chatham, private in the 12th regiment see http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/ and follow the link to online parish registers in the left hand menu.
Casalguidi :)
-
Glad you found the marriage of Martha to Walter SOUTHGATE! Your eyes are a lot better than mine!
I think this is probably their deaths:
Dec Qtr 1882 Holborn
Franks Charles age 44
Mar Qtr 1892 Holborn
Southgate Martha age 41
Walter and Martha are on the 1891 along with son Charles and 2 others.
Maureen
-
Interesting-there's a marriage Dec Qtr 1849 Medway for a George John Margesson WATSON.
Also-I think perhaps the Martha Watson born Medway 1851 may have died later that year.
Maureen
-
Last one before I go to bed. :)
Dec. 25 1849 St Mary the Virgin Chatham
George John William Margesson WATSON Private RM son of William Margesson WATSON Maltster
to Esther PARIS father Peter PARIS Tailor
.................
1851 census 1611/151/20
1861 census 482/ 64/ 35
Matha(sic) WATSON
Maureen
-
You don't suppose????
Jun Qtr 1851 Medway
MARGESSON Martha Jane
Now I'm really going.....
Maureen
-
I've just found a family tree that has Martha Margesson and Charles Franks plus the two children they had. No evidence of marriage or for her surname unfortunately.
-
Hi All
This very complicated family is starting to make a bit more sense to me now. It explains why Martha referred to her father as a Watson, but other people on ancestry have her as a Margesson (and Ann Elizabeth used it as her childs middle name). So the family were either used the double barrelled Margesson Watson or sometimes just used one surname!
Martha's son, Charles Thomas Franks (born 1871) was in the Royal Marine Light Infantry, so the military connection is there, from grandson to son to father.
George & Esther seem more likely contenders for being Martha's parents, than Robert & Caroline - I'll have a look at the census.
Also, on the other side, Charles Franks (born 1839 Wolverhampton) had a sister called Elizabeth, so the Jemima Magness might be their grandmother -mother of Charles Franks born 1810 (Preston). Lots to investigate - thanks!