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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Romilly on Saturday 29 December 12 22:51 GMT (UK)
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Just pondering on New Year Resolutions, etc... and wondered,
After more than 30+ years of searching for my late Grandfather, - should I just draw a line in the sand, admit defeat, and give up?
I am completely unable to find him anywhere prior to the 1901 Census for Wales. He's also on the 1911 Census for Wales, and I have his Death Cert, (in Hendon, Middx in December 1937, aged 77yrs).
He was: William James Wilson, alledgedly born in Manchester in 1860/'61. He married my Grandmother, Margaret Rees, in Swansea in June 1893, aged 32yrs, Occupation: House Painter.
I have never been able to find a definate Birth for him, and I can't find him on any Census prior to 1901...
Advise please... should I just give up?
Romilly :'( :'( :'(
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He married my Grandmother, Margaret Rees, in Swansea in June 1893, aged 32yrs
Any father shown on the marriage cert
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Well, after looking for 30 years, you won't be able to give up, will you??
You only need one more set of records to come online and you may find him (or his father) and several new record sets have come online in the last year or so - FindMyPast's Manchester series, British Newspaper Archive, more records on Lancs Online Parish Clerk etc.
Why don't you post all you know (and have discounted) and see if anything new can be turned up?
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Hi
Have you ruled out the James William Wilson birth registered Manchester Sept Qtr 1859 Vol 8d Page 138
It is not unknown for first and middle names to be reversed.
Andy
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Romilly - NO!
I've just a couple of months ago found lots of info on my GGF Robert Wilson, searching since 1980!
And last year found info on a GGM that I'd been looking for for 25 years!
So never give up ;D ;D ;D
Dawn M
PS Have you looked in Scotland? Lots of Wilson people there too. Curse of being such a popular surname, isn't it?!
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Is there a chance that on the 1891 census this is your William James Wilson?
William James Wilson, aged 30, born c1861, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England. Son of William, occupation Slate Quarrier and Elizabeth Wilson?
I am guessing that stone mason / slate quarrier might loosely be connected.
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Many Thanks for all of the replies, - much appreciated.
Over the years I have tried all of the usual things... and have ordered many Birth Certs; which have not fitted with the info that I have. :-\ I've tried reversing the christian names, and just ordering ones for William Wilson, - but there are so many:-(
CaroleW, - I have the Marriage Cert for William James and Margaret Wilson. William James gives his father as, 'William Wilson (deceased) Occupation: Mason'. Accordingly I searched through the Censuses and Trade Directories looking for a William Wilson, Mason, in and around Manchester. None fit the dates...
I have combed Parish Records/the IGI/Family search, The National Archives - et al...
Because I thought one explanation for William James Wilson being missing from the Censuses might have been him being in the Services, - I have trawled Army and Navy records, - but no joy.
Shizara, - until the 1911 Census became available, I thought the Kirkby Ireleth chap was him too. However, on the 1911 that one is still single and living at home, working as a Labourer, - whereas my William James Wilson is living in Swansea with my Grandmother and their six sons, & running 'Wilson and Co', a painting and decorating company.
My late Uncle, (William Havelock Wilson) told me that as a boy he had visited members of his father's family in Manchester, and that his father came from Manchester. My father died when I was five, and so I haven't been able to ask him for any info... and anyone who might have been able to help with this is long dead. :-X
This is why I am wondering if I should just give up!
Romilly :'(
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Where does the "Havelock" come from? Might be a good clue.
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Did your grandfather have any more siblings?
Where did your grandfather stand in the family hierechy.sp Was William Havelock older than William James?
If there was an older sister she may have been named after her mother whose surname may have been Havelock. Just thoughts!
Sandra
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Did your grandfather have any more siblings?
Where did your grandfather stand in the family hierechy.sp Was William Havelock older than William James?
If there was an older sister she may have been named after her mother whose surname may have been Havelock. Just thoughts!
Sandra
Sorry Sandra,
I didn't make that very clear. William Havelock Wilson was the eldest son of William James Wilson, - my late father's brother and my Uncle. I am fairly certain that the 'Havelock' in his name was a tribute to the leader of the Seaman's Union, Joseph Havelock Wilson.
I have no info as to whether William James Wilson had any siblings, if I did it would make finding him much easier l'm sure.
Romilly.
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No, keep on looking. Never give up, check all angles :) :)
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To Recap...
These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:
On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.
Romilly.
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;) Oh dear!
Regards Sandra
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No! Never!
Was the painting company Limited? If so, have you tried Companies House to see if there's anymore info there.
Also, do you have a copy of his will? It might have some useful info.....
Keep at it - the info is there somewhere......
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No! Never!
Was the painting company Limited? If so, have you tried Companies House to see if there's anymore info there.
Also, do you have a copy of his will? It might have some useful info.....
Keep at it - the info is there somewhere......
Hi FionaO,
Yes, Wilson and Co was a limited Company, and ran from 1895 - 1932.
I wrote to Companies House a few years back, and they replied saying that the papers relating to the Company had been destroyed in the 1970's!!
I don't believe that William James Wilson left a Will, - he's certainly not on Ancestry's Probate Lists.
Romilly. :'(
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I'm still wondering if theres some Scottish connection here, - mainly on the strength of his sons names...
They were: William Havelock Wilson (1894-1974)
Evan Douglas Wilson (1896-1957) (My father, always known as Doug).
Ernest Rencella Wilson (1897-1957) (Registered initially as 'Alice Rencella Wilson', - Gender and name reassigned as 'Clerical Error' 3 months later).
George Felix Wilson (1900-1970) (Architect known professionally as 'Felix Wilson').
Richard Wilson (1901-1959)
Archibald Wilson (1902-1930). (Committed suicide at home aged 26yrs).
Its mainly the Douglas & Archibald that make me wonder, - theres no-one with those names on the Swansea Rees side...
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Ah Romilly, don’t look so sad......
It is interesting the name of Havelock being given to your Uncle. That would suppose a watery connection quite strong. Have you thought about slightly further away from Manchester, Liverpool (still in Lancs) is not too far and has strong sea connections, or even as far as Sunderland?
My parents originate from Lancashire and Yorkshire but going further back they do seem to have wandered down from further north. And Havelock is such an unusual name, according to Wiki (keeping an open mind) he didn’t come to prominence until the late 1880’s and your Uncle was born, the youngest, in 1894. From my research it does seem quite flattering to give your first born the middle name of someone unrelated, especially as in 1894 his union was not doing so well.
And Rencella, delightful name if ever I saw one but any idea where it comes from? I can find no other Rencella’s anywhere. I’ve got the only Runnert in the world in my family and his name appears out of thin air and I can’t get beyond him either – yes, he’s from Manchester from 1843, perhaps it’s a Mancunian joke on the rest of us mortals. Also, Manchester, though in Lancashire has Cheshire edging it so don’t discount that county (border movements, etc).
Have you seen 1881 census 26 St Michaels Place, Manchester; William Wilson, aged 20, lodger, single, calico printer, born Manchester? If his father was a mason, he would have needed to be literate and would probably have passed it down.
But about the will, I’m thinking it’s very strange for a man who ran a business not to have left a will. Only because I’m looking for some of mine at the moment I can tell you it looks quite easy (famous last words) even without a date. You’ll need to download form pa1s ‘Application for a probate search (copies of grants and wills)’ from www.justice.gov.uk, fill it in, send it off and see what happens. I’ve got a grandfather I’m sure would have a will but also can’t find. I’m going to try an 8 year search period (£10) and see if anything turns up. It may not contain anything useful but worth a try – and if it includes his date of birth......
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Hi Fiona,
Many thanks for your thoughts, - greatly appreciated.
Re: '1881 census 26 St Michaels Place, Manchester; William Wilson, aged 20, lodger, single, calico printer, born Manchester?' Yes, I too noticed this chap, & followed him through the later Censuses, - but sadly it's not my Grandfather.
The only thing that I could find re: Rencella, - is that it appears to be a Dutch female name. Alice Rencella Wilson was ammended to Ernest Rencella Wilson when his gender was reassigned as a 'Clerical Error' at 3mths. But perhaps there was some ambiguity? (He never married). I also have a theory that William James Wilson's mother was an Alice, - (there are no Alice's on the Rees side of the family). I got quite a shock when I sent off for Ernest's Birth Cert, because not only is my daughter an Alice, but she has the same birthday as him, - the 8th August! (Isn't family history strange?). Following on from this I searched for an 'Alice Rencella', - but found nothing...
I have numerous books here still, inscribed to me from my late Uncle, William Havelock Wilson, - but I never once thought to ask him where the name came from:-(
Re: Sunderland... from 1912 - 1916 my late father worked for The Taylor and Sanderson Steam Shipping Company; which operated from Sunderland. It seemed rather odd when I found that, as Swansea, - where my father was born and lived until 1932, was a big port, and I have no idea why he would go to Sunderland instead...
I should add that my father was 30yrs older than my mother, and married and had children late in life... and so I have had to try and piece together his family from scratch really, as I knew so little. My late Uncle tried his best, but my mother only let us see him very rarely. He used to send me copies of 'The Manchester Guardian' when I was a student, and lots of books. He was a very interesting and erudite man, (he started learning Mandarin Chinese when he was in his late 70's). I wish I had known him better.
Thanks for all of the interesting suggestions, - I will send off for the Probate, but the Wilson's were all pretty terrible about making Wills, - the only one that I've been able to find is for George Felix Wilson, - the rest seem to have died intestate.
All Best Wishes for 2013,
Romilly.
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Could there be a surname change?
I searched for ages for my gt grandfather in 1871 and before. I finally found a 'similar' family with a different surname. Then managed to find births, marriages in abundance!
I never got to the bottom of the name change though!
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To Recap...
These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:
On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.
Romilly.
Well, those ages all tie in with a birth 1860/61.
Maybe his birthday was 1 April? (40 on 31 March 1901 and 51 on 2 April 1911) :P :P :P
Dawn M
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I found a William James Wilson born 1861 in Ayrshire, but his father was Gabriel. Have you tried WILLSON?
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Thanks for looking IMBER,
Yes, I had found that one, - but sadly it's not the one I'm looking for :(
Yes, I've tried all of the varients of Wilson that I can think of...
It could be of course that William James Wilson's father died when he was very young and his mother re-married...
If I could only find a definate Birth!!
Romilly.
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To Recap...
These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:
On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.
Romilly.
Well, those ages all tie in with a birth 1860/61.
Maybe his birthday was 1 April? (40 on 31 March 1901 and 51 on 2 April 1911) :P :P :P
Dawn M
Hi Dawn,
These are the Births listed on the Free BMD Site that cover those dates:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1860
WILSON William James Liverpool 8b 16
Births Sep 1860
WILSON William James W Derby 8b 255
WILSON William James Ulverstone 8e 616
WILSON William James Preston 8e 481
Births Dec 1860
WILSON William James W Derby 8b 245
Births Jun 1861
Wilson William James Liverpool 8b 177
Nothing for Manchester though...
I have previously ordered some of those Certs, but none of them fitted with the info I already had, - and I called a halt after I reached a tally of 10!!
Romilly :'( :'( :'(
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Did your WJW live at 113 St Helens Road, Swansea? If so, did you know that in 1896 he patented the Wilson's Patent Room Purifier! (Western Times, 9 July 1896)
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Did your WJW live at 113 St Helens Road, Swansea? If so, did you know that in 1896 he patented the Wilson's Patent Room Purifier! (Western Times, 9 July 1896)
Well I never!
Yes he did live at 113 St Helens Road. My father was born there in May 1896.
How do I get hold of the item? Is that a Welsh paper?
Romilly :D
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Worth looking at this thread as FindMyPast has newspapers
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,628085.msg4760774.html#msg4760774
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Many Thanks for the Link sillgen.
Romilly. :)
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Manchester School Admission Registers 1870-1916
WILSON Wm Jas Year of event 1866 Place: Hulme Lancashire
There is the transcript & image on FindMyPast. You need to grab some of the free credits that are available. Look at the post in the Common Room. ;)
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Manchester School Admission Registers 1870-1916
WILSON Wm Jas Year of event 1866 Place: Hulme Lancashire
There is the transcript & image on FindMyPast. You need to grab some of the free credits that are available. Look at the post in the Common Room. ;)
I think this should be William Jno Wilson. It's a night school register, he's 15 yrs 8mths in 1870. Sorry!
Anne
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Yes, - I just signed up for the offer, - opened it... and sadly it's not him.
It was worth a try though, - so thanks for looking.
Cheers, Romilly.
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Here is the link for his invention http://worldwide.espacenet.com/
Just click on advanced search on the left side, put Wilson in the inventor's name box and 1896 in the date box, and click search. The room purifier will be about 4th in the list. You can then click on it and then see all 3 pages of the submission. Interesting, though doesnt get you any further forward, but it does illustrate the point I made about how much stuff is out there if only you know where to look!
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Above post has been corrected.
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Here is the link for his invention http://worldwide.espacenet.com/
Just click on advanced search on the left side, put Wilson in the inventor's name box and 1896 in the date box, and click search. The room purifier will be about 4th in the list. You can then click on it and then see all 3 pages of the submission. Interesting, though doesnt get you any further forward, but it does illustrate the point I made about how much stuff is out there if only you know where to look!
Gosh, - thanks so much for this alpinecottage!!
I'm sure that I would never have found it by my own devices. :)
I was feeling so despondent about ever finding anything else on William James Wilson... As you say, it doesn't really take me any further with unearthing his origins, - but it helps to give me more of a picture of the man, as it were.
All Best Wishes for 2013,
Romilly. :)
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Happy New Year Romilly,
Having read through this thread, I can see you have explored all of the usual avenues (births, censuses etc.) for your grandfather. In answer to your initial question, no don't give up. It's time to "think outside the square".
I gather that the earliest reference you have for him is the 1893 marriage. Having had no luck looking for him in the census records, have you tried looking for the father? Alternatively, are there any other Wilson's living in and around Swansea in 1901 or 1911 who were born in Manchester? It might pay to follow any of them back through the censuses if possible to see if they link up. Also, it might be worth your while to make up some family groups of the various Wilson families, either born in Manchester, or living there, in the earlier census years. You never know what might turn up.
And have you fully investigated Joseph Havelock Wilson's family background, if only to rule him out?
I know some of these are long shots, and/or time-consuming, but sometimes these exercises pay off.
Good luck!
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Romilly,
Also, have you tried to find the father in later censuses (1901 or 1911)? Surely there can't be too many William Wilson's who were stonemasons, and of the right age bracket.
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Romilly,
Also, have you tried to find the father in later censuses (1901 or 1911)? Surely there can't be too many William Wilson's who were stonemasons, and of the right age bracket.
Hi pinefamily,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I have searched for William Wilson, (Snr) Mason in the earlier Censuses. On my Grandfather's Marriage Cert, (Swansea in 1893) he says that his father is deceased. And so William Wilson, (Mason) must have died prior to 1893.
Romilly.
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I guess you have probably checked out the witnesses at the wedding (yeah, I know, stating the blinking obvious! ;))
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I guess you have probably checked out the witnesses at the wedding (yeah, I know, stating the blinking obvious! ;))
No, it's a good point Spidermonkey, and one of the reasons for my post in the first place was that in my lateral searching, I too might have missed out the blinking obvious! 8)
Sadly however... the witnesses at William James Wilson and Margaret Rees's Marriage were her father Evan Rees and her sister Selina Rees. (No Wilsons:-)
As every new Census became available... the 1901, then 1911, - I lived in hope that a Wilson rellie from Manchester would obligingly be visiting... but none were! :( :(
It's soooooo frustrating,
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
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As every new Census became available... the 1901, then 1911, - I lived in hope that a Wilson rellie from Manchester would obligingly be visiting... but none were! :( :(
It's soooooo frustrating,
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
Well, there's still the 1921! ;D
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As every new Census became available... the 1901, then 1911, - I lived in hope that a Wilson rellie from Manchester would obligingly be visiting... but none were! :( :(
It's soooooo frustrating,
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
Well, there's still the 1921! ;D
Yes, - we'll have a long wait for that though!! (Unless Guy Etchells can weave his magic again :D)
Romilly :)
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Hi Romilly,
Do you have a photo of your parents wedding?
Are there any odd people on it who could be from his side?
Although it is looking remarkably like he went to Wales by himself( I wonder why?) and that no one from the Wilson side attended the wedding.
Carol
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Hi Romilly,
Do you have a photo of your parents wedding?
Are there any odd people on it who could be from his side?
Although it is looking remarkably like he went to Wales by himself( I wonder why?) and that no one from the Wilson side attended the wedding.
Carol
Hi Carol,
No, I have no photos of my Grandparent's wedding in Swansea in 1893.
I don't know how general wedding photos were in the 1890's in South Wales?
The only photo that I have of my Wilson Grandparents, (with two sons) was sent to me from Dubai, after I managed to trace a first cousin on my father's side of the family. There are no other photos that I know of, - my mother certainly didn't have any.
Romilly.
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As every new Census became available... the 1901, then 1911, - I lived in hope that a Wilson rellie from Manchester would obligingly be visiting... but none were! :( :(
It's soooooo frustrating,
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
Well, there's still the 1921! ;D
Yes, - we'll have a long wait for that though!! (Unless Guy Etchells can weave his magic again :D)
Romilly :)
Guy Etchells...what has he managed before please ;) Sandra
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Romilly, I was thinking of your parents wedding,maybe some cousins or aunts and uncles from the Wilson side.
Yasmina- Guy Etchells campaigned to get the 1911 census released 2 years earlier than originally planned. I believe it was the last census that was not subject to the 100 year privacy law though.Those people completing one in 1921 signed it to agree that it would not be released till a clear 100 years had elapsed.IE 2nd Jan 2022.
Carol
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:( Thanks Carol.
I'll probably be past it when the next one comes thru. Ah me!
Sandra
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Carol,
My parents married in 1946 in Lewisham Registry Office in South London. My father's parents had died in 1934 and 1937. The witnesses were my mother's brother and sister in law. There were no photos, - there are no photos of my parents together at all.
Re: censuses, it is disapponting that we can't see the later censuses, when the US 1940 is available to view!
Romilly.
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To Recap...
These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:
On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.
Romilly.
Deduced from the above that if all the information shown is correct he MUST have been born on 1st April 1860. Does that help in any way? Is it possible to refine birth records to that amount of detail?
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Romilly,
You’re breaking my heart now – no parents wedding photo!
And I’ve got a rellie who got 11 years older per census, in 1871 he was 36, in 1881 he was 47 and in 1891 he was 58.
Fiona O if only they knew the troubles they gave us....
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My late Uncle, (William Havelock Wilson) told me that as a boy he had visited members of his father's family in Manchester, and that his father came from Manchester.
So, one could consider that on the 1901 census there should be some Wilsons in Manchester that belong to you. There are (just checked ;)) 110, so I wonder if it possible to look back through family groupings to see if there are any likely candidates :-\
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I found this the other day but couldn't follow it through as I don't have a current sub.
1881
25 Woodley st, Manchester
William Wilson unemployed house painter, b1833 Liverpool
Alice Wilson wife, b1837 Ireland
Right age frame, interesting occupation and wife's name the same as the one initially chosen for Ernest.... Certainly worth following through even if only to discount.
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To Recap...
These are the dates & ages that I have for William James Wilson:
On his wedding day in Swansea on the 23rd June 1893, he gives his age as 32yrs.
On the 1901 Census for Wales (taken on the 31st March 1901) his age is given as 40yrs.
On the 1911 Census for Wales (taken on the 2nd April 1911) his age is given as 51yrs.
On his Death Cert, in London, in December 1937, his son gives his age as 77yrs.
Romilly.
Deduced from the above that if all the information shown is correct he MUST have been born on 1st April 1860. Does that help in any way? Is it possible to refine birth records to that amount of detail?
Hi Redroger,
Long time no speak!
Many Thanks for your imput. I've checked through that Quarter for 1860, but no, it doesn't seem possible to pin it down that precisely... ::)
I've concentrated on Lancashire, because he seems to have genuinely believed that he came from Manchester, - he gives there as POB on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses.
I've already ordered 10 Birth Certs which were incorrect, - and I think my husband will strangle me if I order any more...
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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I found this the other day but couldn't follow it through as I don't have a current sub.
1881
25 Woodley st, Manchester
William Wilson unemployed house painter, b1833 Liverpool
Alice Wilson wife, b1837 Ireland
Right age frame, interesting occupation and wife's name the same as the one initially chosen for Ernest.... Certainly worth following through even if only to discount.
They are here on the 1861 census RG 9; Piece: 2665; Folio: 57; Page: 52 - no children shown.
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Romilly,
You’re breaking my heart now – no parents wedding photo!
And I’ve got a rellie who got 11 years older per census, in 1871 he was 36, in 1881 he was 47 and in 1891 he was 58.
Fiona O if only they knew the troubles they gave us....
Hi FionaO,
It does seem strange I know, the lack of photos, - but that's just how it is...
The only photos that I have of my father is one of him as a baby,one in RNR Uniform during WW1, and one of him and his brothers taken in 1926, - passed on to me by a half -Swiss Wilson cousin who sent it to me from Geneva.
My mother is of the belief that once you're dead it's all over and done with, and she destroyed any photos that she did have of my father when he died in 1957. Apparantly, in the 1950's the thought was that when a parent died leaving young children, - they should never be mentioned again, and the children would forget in time. Of course this is not the case, but certainly he was never mentioned during my childhood, there were no photos, - and everything that I do know... I have had to find out for myself.
Thanks everyone for all of the help on here.
Romilly.
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I found this the other day but couldn't follow it through as I don't have a current sub.
1881
25 Woodley st, Manchester
William Wilson unemployed house painter, b1833 Liverpool
Alice Wilson wife, b1837 Ireland
Right age frame, interesting occupation and wife's name the same as the one initially chosen for Ernest.... Certainly worth following through even if only to discount.
They are here on the 1861 census RG 9; Piece: 2665; Folio: 57; Page: 52 - no children shown.
Thats certainly worth a try, - thanks spidermonkey.
Romilly.
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Also, grabbing at all the straws going!, there is this William, bn 1863 who (on the 1881) is working as a painter. His father and a brother are working as stone masons.
RG11 piece 4197 folio 31 page 20
Slight problem is that father's name is Alexander and they are living in Blackburn
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Also, grabbing at all the straws going!, there is this William, bn 1863 who (on the 1881) is working as a painter. His father and a brother are working as stone masons.
RG11 piece 4197 folio 31 page 20
Slight problem is that father's name is Alexander and they are living in Blackburn
Well... there's obviously something not quite right with the info that William James Wilson gave on his Marriage Cert... because I've combed the Censuses quite exhaustively, and I can't find either him or William Wilson, (Snr) on any of the earlier Censuses. It does seem strange though that on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Wales everything he says seems quite straightforward. And all of his sons were correctly registered, etc...
I have read, (somwhere) that there were quite stringent punishments for not taking part in the Censuses... and so it is very perplexing that I can't find him.
Romilly ::) ::) ::)
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Also, grabbing at all the straws going!, there is this William, bn 1863 who (on the 1881) is working as a painter. His father and a brother are working as stone masons.
RG11 piece 4197 folio 31 page 20
Slight problem is that father's name is Alexander and they are living in Blackburn
Father Alexander seems to die between 1881 and 1891 and the family seem to disperse a bit. Mother Ann is with her married daughter Elizabeth here RG12; Piece: 3457; Folio: 38; Page: 29
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1861:13 Hodson St, Blackburn
ALexander Wilson HEad Mar 34 Stone Mason bn Kirkby Lonsdale
Ann Wilson Wife Mar 30 bn Blackburn
Joshua Wilson Son 10 bn Blackburn (Deaf and dumb)
Mary Alice WIlson Dau 5 bn Preston
James WIlson SOn 3 bn Blackburn
Elizabeth Ann WIlson Dau 1 bn Blackburn
Mary Hall Boarder Mar 70
RG 9; Piece: 3099; Folio: 30; Page: 4
1871:69 Holy Well St, Blackburn
Alexander Wilson Head Mar 44 Stone Mason bn Kirby Lonsdale
Ann Wilson Wife Mar 40 bn Blackburn
Joshua Wilson Son Unm 20 Stone mason bn Blackburn
James Wilson Son Unm 13 Core? cutter bn Blackburn
Elizabeth Ann Wilson Dau 11 bn Blackburn
William Wilson Son 9 bn Blackburn
Alexander Wilson SOn 7 bn Blackburn
Mary Alice Wilson Dau 4 bn Blackburn
Margaret Wilson Dau 3 bn Blackburn
RG10; Piece: 4183; Folio: 16; Page: 25
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Thanks for posting all of that spidermonkey.
I will check it all through tomorrow. (My subs to Ancestry expire this week, - and so I will try to re-check everything suggested... before resting it all for a while)
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Hi Romilly
I don't think any of us ever really give up trying to find those darn elusive ancestors. ::)
This is probably a complete "red herring" but I have been wondering about the connection between Joseph Havelock Wilson & your Uncle William Havelock, you said you thought that was where the name Havelock came from, is it at all possible that your Grandfather was actually a seaman before he married your Gran. :-\
I've found a William Wilson on the 1891 in Mylor Bridge Cornwall, RG12/1833/41/9, he is a Royal Marine aged 32, born Manchester & lodging with a Sampson Prout, aged 59 a Pensioner in the RN, his wife Christiana & son Thomas all born Cornwall.
Trouble is there are 7 births on Free BMD for William Wilson between 1859 & 1861 in Manchester so I'm not having much luck trying to go backwards from him.
As I said, I'm probably way of the mark but I guess anything is worth looking at. :)
Maddie
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I am assuming you have checked the Cambrian Index, newspaper index for Wales. Keep going. I'm pleased I did with one of my elusives. Regards, Gazania
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Hi Maddie,
Thanks for looking for me.
Yes, I too noticed the Mylor Bridge Royal Marine. I downloaded lots of RNLI Records from The National Archives Site, but none of them seemed to be for the right chap:-(
Likewise, I ordered more Birth Certs for William Wilson's born in Manchester; which again, didn't fit the info that I already had.
There is a missing gap for Merchant Navy Records for the period that William James Wilson might have served, - and so thats another dead end...
My plan for when I am next able to visit Kew is to try and sort out if there are any records relating to The Taylor and Sanderson Steam Shipping Company, who were based in Sunderland. My father's first job was with them, and it's just possible that William James Wilson had either worked for them previously, or had some sort of link to them.
I did try to follow Joseph Havelock Wilson's family back through the Censuses for Sunderland a while back now, but I couldn't find any link, - although difficult to know as I don't have any names...:-(
Thanks for the help,
Romilly.
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I am assuming you have checked the Cambrian Index, newspaper index for Wales. Keep going. I'm pleased I did with one of my elusives. Regards, Gazania
It's worth a try !
Cheers, Romilly.
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Romilly, I'm sure he got his place of birth wrong.
It was stated on all census's that my 2x gt grandmother was born in Berwick on Tweed, as her mother had. Surely her parents could not be wrong! But, she lived all her life in London. It took me ages (and lots of certificates) before I finally found her birth registered in....London!! I think she must have been born in Berwick, perhaps while family were visiting, but later registered in London, a whole five weeks after she was born.
Perhaps your William's birth registration was a similar scenario....born in Manchester, but lived & registered in Blackburn. I must say, Alexander does look a good candidate for his father. ???
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Snowyw,
I've saved all of the Census returns on Alexander Wilson and family, but I'm not totally convinced...
The 'William Wilson, Painter' could fit... (although it looks like he was born in 1863).
Alexander Henry Wilson, (born 1827) died in Preston, Lancs in 1901 aged 74yrs.
Why then would William James Wilson say that his father William Wilson, (Mason) was deceased by 1893?
I agree that he could be mistaken about being born in Manchester, - perhaps they had lived there, and he assumed he was born there?
I just wish that I had a bit more to go on...
Romilly. ???
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Alexander Henry Wilson, (born 1827) died in Preston, Lancs in 1901 aged 74yrs.
Is that the right chap? His wife is shown as a widow on the 1891 census. :-\
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Alexander Henry Wilson, (born 1827) died in Preston, Lancs in 1901 aged 74yrs.
Is that the right chap? His wife is shown as a widow on the 1891 census. :-\
Doh... am I looking at the wrong lot?? (I can't find them on the 1891 Census).
(My subs expire on there this week, - and I've probably been spending too long looking!!)
I will have a break... and look again later,
Romilly :-[
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I think this may be the death of Alexander Wilson - Stone Mason.
Deaths Sep 1886 Wilson Alexander 60 Blackburn 8e 247
I seriously think, 'William' Wilson is a mistake on your grandfather's marriage certificate. It happens - annoyingly!!
We just need to prove it!
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Thanks snowyw,
However, having now found this William Wilson on the 1911 Census, - I can see that he isn't my Grandfather!
I know that we're not supposed to post from the 1911, - but... although Alexander and Ann Wilson's son is working as a House Painter, (as was William James Wilson) he is living in Blackburn, married to Mary, and has children Fred and Mary!
Ergo... he is NOT my Grandfather William James Wilson, who in 1911 was living in Swansea with my Grandmother and their six sons.
Back to the drawing board...
And it looked so promising... :'( :'( :'(
Romilly.
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My advice; just cool it for a while; follow another line and then return to the one that gives the problems. I have been trying since 1996 to prove the identity of my 2XGGF
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Blast! I feel as frustrated as you do. >:(
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Thanks everyone for all the help, and time and effort. Your assistance and ideas have been very much appreciated.
I think for the meantime I will take Redrodger's advice... and put William James Wilson on the back burner for a while...
Best Wishes, and Good Luck with your research,
Romilly.
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Every now and again...just when you think every avenue of exploration is exhausted...something pops up!
More on Bankruptcy proceedings:
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3360040/ART38/william&20james&20wilson
However, - I am pleased to see that the 'Wilson Air Purifier' did at least go into production in 1897:
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4124117/ART41/113%20st%20helen
Still no closer to finding him before 1893 though:-(
Romilly.
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This is a long thread and there seem to be others running on same family so not sure if you've got this.
There doesn't seem to be a William (stone mason) with a son also called William born abt 1860/1 in Manchester, so maybe the Manchester is right (especially if your uncle stayed with relatives there), but perhaps William senior never existed.
The 1861 census has a William Wilson 1 year old the son of Mary Wilson age 24 unmarried cotton winder both born Manchester, living in Todmorden, Lancs
Piece 3237, Folio 75, page 19
The 1871 has a Wm Wilson age 11 born Manchester as a pupil at the Bluecoat school Newton with Scales. Don't know if it's the same boy of course, but the school was a charity school, taking poor children.
Piece 4219, Folio 22, page 4
He may have been told that his father was dead and also called William and grew up believing it, or invented a father and a profession so as not to leave a blank on the marriage cert.
Maybe Mary married had more children and the Manchester relatives were William's half siblings.
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Thanks for looking LizzieL.
Yes, - there is definately something wrong with the info that William James Wilson gives on his Marriage Cert. (I wonder if the 'Father's Name' is a mistake?) He is also fairly definate on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses that he was born in Manchester though...
It is strange though, - because every time I decide to just give up with him... something else pops up! (Like these Newspaper items:-).
Romilly.