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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: philRichards on Sunday 16 December 12 21:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Sunday 16 December 12 21:36 GMT (UK)
Hi all.

I have been searching for a few years and I am stumped..

So I thought I would join this amazing site, the amount of info is daunting..

If anyone is searching for relations to John Richards from South Shields let me know.

Many thanks

Phil
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 16 December 12 23:17 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D

Do you have any dates to help us get started?
Or any people connected to John?
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Sunday 16 December 12 23:35 GMT (UK)
Wow that was quick.

According to the 1911 census he was 47, born in Bolton Lancashire.

His wife Elizabeth (no surname) was born in Backworth Northumberland.

I also believe his family originated from Wales.

A lot of info I found in a newspaper clipping as he worked at the William pit in Whitehaven.

For some reason, I can't find Birth and Marriage records...

Any help much appreciated.

Thank you

Phil
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 16 December 12 23:54 GMT (UK)
Phil, if you purchased the birth certifcate of any of the children, you will get Elizabeth's maiden name.

I chose Donald as I think the same is a bit less common:
Births Jun 1899
Richards  Donald   
S. Shields 
10a 898
Let us know if you need help with the ordering process through the GRO (General Register Office).

You might want to wait a little longer in case we find John and Elizabeth's marriage, but as you have some common names there, the above birth certificate may be the best option to ensure you are tracing the right family.

I will see if I can come up with anything more.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 00:02 GMT (UK)
The 1911 census also gives the number of years married.
Added to that, the eldest child was born c1889.

So maybe this marriage fits?

June qtr 1885
Gateshead district    vol 10a, page 1083

Richard, John
+ and on the same page +
Fee, Elizabeth

But, as Ruskie pointed out, much safer to buy one of the children's birth certificates! ;D
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 00:06 GMT (UK)
Have you looked for the family in any other census Ken?

I was just about to do so (in case there are any relatives living with the family to give clues about Elizabeth's surname), but I don't want to repeat anything you have already done.  :)

Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 00:10 GMT (UK)

Added to that, the eldest child was born c1889.


There is an earlier one, Henry, b 1887, Seaham. Looking at the places of birth of the children, it seems that father John was following the work.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 00:14 GMT (UK)
1901 census doesn't offer much help!

Class RG13, Piece 4745, Folio 82, Page 40

John is born Manchester
Elizabeth born Backworth
Plus Henry(14), Elizabeth(12), Mary(10), Alice(8.), John(6), Joseph(4), and Donald(2)
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 00:19 GMT (UK)
1891 census (RG12, 4140, 111, 71) at Ryhope Colliery, has John's brother George Richards (age 31, b Bolton) staying with them.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 17 December 12 00:22 GMT (UK)
1871 Census shows an Elizabeth Fee bc.1868 Backworth, Northumberland in the Tyne Union Workhouse - ref. RG10 - 5122 - 72 - 10.

So the marriage at Gateshead in 1885 looks good.

Annette
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 00:26 GMT (UK)
Did you notice in the 1891 that ELisabeth's place of birth is Liverpool?  :o

Following up on the marriage you found I did look for the birth of an Elizabeth Fee, and found one registered Dec 1/4 1867 and registered in Tynemouth. I think Backworth comes under Earsdon district, but they are neigbouring districts, so that may still be a possibility. There don't appear to be any other likely births around that year (she is pretty consistent with her age on the censuses). Jumping ahead a bit too far though, and I would encourage Phil to purchase one of the children's birth certificates just to be sure.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 00:27 GMT (UK)
1871 Census shows an Elizabeth Fee bc.1868 Backworth, Northumberland in the Tyne Union Workhouse - ref. RG10 - 5122 - 72 - 10.

So the marriage at Gateshead in 1885 looks good.

Annette

That is all fitting together quite well then.  :)
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 00:32 GMT (UK)
With Elizabeth in the 1871 is a Sarah Fee age 25 and a John Fee age 2. I wonder if Elizabeth and John are illegitimate children of Sarah - I think her condition is 'unmarr'. It may explain why they are in the workhouse.

Sarah is bWhitehaven Cumberland. The 1851 has a Sarah Fee of about the right age (b 1846) with parents John and Margaret, living in Whitehaven Cumberland. John is a coalminer b Lancashire.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 17 December 12 00:45 GMT (UK)
I think I may have found the right family:

1861 Census - Hulme, Lancashire (ref. RG9 - 2998 - 60 - 2)

George C. Richards   25     Photographer     b. Brussels, Belgium (??)
Hannah Richards    21                               b. Whitehaven, Cumberland
George C. Richards   1                               b. Bolton, Lancashire

1871 - Whitehaven, Cumberland (ref.RG10 - 5257 - 44 - 1)

Hannah Richardson  31 Wife (no husband listed)      b. Whitehaven, Cumberland
George      ditto          13                             b. Bolton, Lancashire
John         ditto           11                             b. Manchester, Lancashire
Maria Louisa   ditto      5                              b. Newcastle on tyne, Northumberland
Henry       ditto       3                                   b. Blythe, Northumberland
Alice         ditto       1                                   b. Whitehaven, Cumberland

1881 - Whitehaven, Cumberland (ref.RG11 - 5186 - 101 - 30)

Hannah Richards     41                                b. Whitehaven, Cumberland
George Richards     20       Coal Miner          b. Bolton, Lancashire
Maria Richards    15                                    b. Newcastle, Northumberland
Alice Richards   11                                      b. Whitehaven, Cumberland
William Richards  9                                              ditto

(John not with them)

Annette
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 17 December 12 00:51 GMT (UK)
1871 - George C. Richards is a Boarder in Bradford, Yorkshire - still a photographer but hasn't aged much - now aged 30??.
(ref. RG10 - 4467 - 28 - 4)

Annette
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 17 December 12 01:01 GMT (UK)
Just found 'missing' John in 1881 who wasn't with family in Whitehaven.

He is a boarder in Boldon, Durham  19 - coal miner (ref.RG11 - 5018 - 8 - 4) - born Manchester.

There is a birth in BMD for a John Richards in the Jun.qtr.1862 Manchester which may be him.

Annette

Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 02:01 GMT (UK)
I did see that family in 1861 but dismissed it due to there being no John, so did not follow up on them.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 17 December 12 02:10 GMT (UK)
The brother George appears to have been born as George Chippendale Richards and reg'd Sept.1859 Bolton - Lancashire BMD's shown his mothers maiden name was Shepherd and there is a Hannah Shepherd b.1840 Whitehaven.  

Can't find marriage of a George Richards and a Hannah Shepherd though.

George Chippendale Richards married in Whitehaven Mar.qtr.1894.

Annette

Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 08:48 GMT (UK)
1871 - George C. Richards is a Boarder in Bradford, Yorkshire - still a photographer but hasn't aged much - now aged 30??.
(ref. RG10 - 4467 - 28 - 4)

Annette

! saw this too - before retiring to bed! ;D

The family he is boarding with have been transcribed as Fel (Ancestry).
The original entry looks more like Feb?

Feb, John  Head  M  55  Coal Miner  b Wigan
Feb, Jane  Wife  F  52  b Whitehaven
Brocklebank, Andrew  Son-in-Law  Unmarried  M  21  b Coal Miner  b Whitehaven
Partington, Mary  Daughter-in-Law  Unmarried  F  12  b Whitehaven
Richards, John  Boarder  M  19  Coal Miner  b Manchester

Putting  2 and 2 together, and getting 22 . . .

Could this Fel/Feb family be a mistranscribed Fee family?!
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Monday 17 December 12 10:46 GMT (UK)
That's  lot to get through many thanks. I will start by getting one of Johns sons birth cert.

Thanks again, I will keep you all updated.

Phil
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: garstonite on Monday 17 December 12 11:07 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found Elizabeth Fee in 1881 census ?
I can`t find her on familysearch- unless I have missed something
allan
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: garstonite on Monday 17 December 12 11:18 GMT (UK)
I have found her STILL in that workhouse aged 14 daughter - a scholar ?? in 1881 ..how sad 14 years since birth in the Workhouse
I would have thought she would have been working at that age in those days

according to the census
relationship to head - Sarah Fee b 1847...INMATE  HEAD  - Domestic servant
Marital Condition - single
 ...does this mean she actually ran the workhouse ??..
allan
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Monday 17 December 12 11:43 GMT (UK)

Let us know if you need help with the ordering process through the GRO (General Register Office). 

I just looked up the GRO and a certificate is £9.25. Do you know if there is a cheaper way as I only require an electronic copy. 

Phil
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: bloogy on Monday 17 December 12 11:49 GMT (UK)
you cannot view or download GRO certificates online unfortunately, and thats an excellent price.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Monday 17 December 12 11:52 GMT (UK)

Richard, John
+ and on the same page +
Fee, Elizabeth


I am sure in my old notes from twenty years or so ago, I recall the surname Fee. I must have a look when I am at my Mum's next.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 12:14 GMT (UK)
1871 - George C. Richards is a Boarder in Bradford, Yorkshire - still a photographer but hasn't aged much - now aged 30??.
(ref. RG10 - 4467 - 28 - 4)

Annette

! saw this too - before retiring to bed! ;D

The family he is boarding with have been transcribed as Fel (Ancestry).
The original entry looks more like Feb?

Feb, John  Head  M  55  Coal Miner  b Wigan
Feb, Jane  Wife  F  52  b Whitehaven
Brocklebank, Andrew  Son-in-Law  Unmarried  M  21  b Coal Miner  b Whitehaven
Partington, Mary  Daughter-in-Law  Unmarried  F  12  b Whitehaven
Richards, John  Boarder  M  19  Coal Miner  b Manchester

Putting  2 and 2 together, and getting 22 . . .

Could this Fel/Feb family be a mistranscribed Fee family?!

Which census is this? 1871?

It does look like a huge co-incidence doesn't it? Fee/Fel/Feb? Ancestry is playing up for me at the moment, but have you check earlier or later census for this family to check that surname?

Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 12:15 GMT (UK)
I have found her STILL in that workhouse aged 14 daughter - a scholar ?? in 1881 ..how sad 14 years since birth in the Workhouse
I would have thought she would have been working at that age in those days

according to the census
relationship to head - Sarah Fee b 1847...INMATE  HEAD  - Domestic servant
Marital Condition - single
 ...does this mean she actually ran the workhouse ??..
allan


That census says:

Fee, Sarah  Inmate  Unmarried  F  34  Domestic Servant  b Whitehaven
Fee, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  14  Scholar  b Whitehaven
Fee, John  Son  M  12  Scholar  b North Shields
Fee, Joseph  Son  M  8  Scholar  b North Shields
Fee, Margaret  Daughter  F  4  Scholar  b North Shields

Original page doesn't say "Head"!
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 12:18 GMT (UK)

Which census is this? 1871?

It does look like a huge co-incidence doesn't it? Ancestry is playing up for me at the moment, but have you check earlier or later census for this family to check that surname?



Oops! :-[

Quoted the wrong reply!

It was the 1881 census quoted by Annette in reply #15:

Quote
Just found 'missing' John in 1881 who wasn't with family in Whitehaven.

He is a boarder in Boldon, Durham  19 - coal miner (ref.RG11 - 5018 - 8 - 4) - born Manchester.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: garstonite on Monday 17 December 12 12:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks KGarrad  ..I was only quoting the familysearch record of Sarah Fee in 1881...says head on there ...
allan
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Monday 17 December 12 12:33 GMT (UK)
I remember now. I was told her name was Sarah See. It was not until I looked at the census I realised it was Elizabeth but forgot the surname.

I have ordered Donalds BC for the bargain price of £9.25 just to confirm Elizabeths surname.

Thanks again guys, the beers on on me.


Phil
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 12:42 GMT (UK)

Fee, Sarah  Inmate  Unmarried  F  34  Domestic Servant  b Whitehaven
Fee, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  14  Scholar  b Whitehaven
Fee, John  Son  M  12  Scholar  b North Shields
Fee, Joseph  Son  M  8  Scholar  b North Shields
Fee, Margaret  Daughter  F  4  Scholar  b North Shields


Wow - what a lot of illegitimate children ....

Thanks, I will have a look for the 'Feb' family in other censuses (I am watching TV and rootschatting during ad breaks  ;))

Phil, when written, the capital letters F and S are often confused, so it is likely that this is the same family.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 17 December 12 14:48 GMT (UK)
Thanks KGarrad  ..I was only quoting the familysearch record of Sarah Fee in 1881...says head on there ...
allan

Ancestry says the same! ::)

When I quote census data, I prefer to look at the original document ;D
That way I can avoid some of the transcription errors!!

Can't find this John Fel/Feb in any other census?
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 14:52 GMT (UK)

Can't find this John Fel/Feb in any other census?

I can't see him either. I did find Andrew Brocklebank though that didn't help ....  :-\
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Monday 17 December 12 19:15 GMT (UK)
So it looks like they never married? I do know they had 18 children, but not all survived. I also think Donald was killed when his ship was torpedoed outside South Shields pier...
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 17 December 12 23:18 GMT (UK)
So it looks like they never married? I do know they had 18 children, but not all survived. I also think Donald was killed when his ship was torpedoed outside South Shields pier...

Who are you referring to? John and Elizabeth? If you are, KGarrad found a marriage earlier in this post which looks like their marriage, assuming that we are on the right track in assuming that John married Elizabeth Fee:

June qtr 1885
Gateshead district    vol 10a, page 1083
Richard, John
+ and on the same page +
Fee, Elizabeth
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Tuesday 18 December 12 08:18 GMT (UK)
I found more info on the work house.

It looks like Elizabeth might have been born there as her mother and siblings are listed.

Sarah 34
John 12
Joseph 8
Margaret 4


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Tynemouth/Tynemouth1881.shtml
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Tuesday 18 December 12 09:03 GMT (UK)
My bad. Sorry Elizabeth was born in Whitehaven.

I wonder if John knew the Fee family when he worked in Whitehaven?

I'm struggling to keep up with all the data lol...

Thanks for all your help..
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Thursday 20 December 12 13:44 GMT (UK)
It's amazing what a phonecall can produce. It turns out George C is correct. My Mum was given a photograph after I asked her to speak with my aunt.

Now it turns out she did not know who he was, but his name was George. However, when Johns daughter Alice died, she had several pictures on the wall of George, he would have been her Grandfather. Those pictures will be in my possesion soon.

She also said, he had a studio in Gateshead, this would explain why one of his children was born in Gateshead.
Title: Re: Richards Surname
Post by: philRichards on Thursday 20 December 12 13:49 GMT (UK)
It might be possible that the Chippendale name might have been his mums maiden name.

He named a daughter Maria Louisa, was that his mums name???

I am going to try to look for connections in Brussels. Has anyone got any tips??