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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Sunglen on Saturday 15 December 12 17:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have my ggrandparents marriage cert (1884 - Pallasgreen/Templebraden) and noticed that there is an error or at least I suspect there is an error.
Stated on the Cert, P. Gleeson (widower) marries Johanna Gleeson (spinster) and her father's name is Maurice Kirby and sponsor was Ellen Kirby. My mother knew her maiden name was Kirby. I had just assumed that her name was mistakingly stated as Gleeson instead of Kirby.
But now as I have been unable to find her baptismal record on RootsIre site, could there be any other scenario that I should consider.
Johanna's age was 23 according to MC in 1884 making her year of birth as 1861.
According to Census records she was born c 1856-1858. There is a Jane Kirby born to Maurice in 1857 along with other siblings but they are not the same family.
Thanks
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I’d be inclined to compare the civil and church certificates to see if they both contain the same information. If they do, then it seems less likely that it’s a mistake. (I see that the civil indexes show them both under the same surname Gleeson, so I suppose the question is whether the church record also has that information).
Not all baptism records have survived. The explanation for not finding her baptism may be lack of records rather than that she wasn’t baptised there. (Acc to the Irish Times site, I can see a short gap in the baptism records for October 1861, and there may be others. Or perhaps she might not have been baptised in that parish.)
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I know the following age is out but see what you think.
Family search has a Johanna Kirby born a few miles away over the county border in Tipperary to Maurice Kirby and Johanna Touhy in April 1868 and an Ellen Kirby born in the same county to Maurice Kirby and Judy Toohey in May 1864.
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Sometimes it helps to look at all the available details-
Johanna Kirby born 1868-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPC5-HTB
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRHW-FV4
Johanna married 1898 in Massachusetts-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4QQ-VQ2
Ellen born 1864-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR9N-T2R
Maurice born 1866-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR36-YRW
Maurice married 1894 in Rhode Island-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F8VZ-Y81
Death of Johanna (Touhey) Kirby in U.S. 1899-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N71N-CQ3
Looks like Maurice Kirby & Johanna Touhey aren't the parents of Johanna who married in Ireland.
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Elywn,
Yes, I will have to check the Marriage records at the NLI the next time that I am in Dublin or try to view the local parish records. I would even suggest that my mother could have been mistaken over Johanna's name only that the marriage cert confirms that the father's name was Kirby. By the way, Philip's first wife was also Johanna Kirby who died in 1883!!! So it is probable that the 2 Johannas were related to one another, her father was Michael.
Gaffy,
I was fairly sure even before aghadowey posted (thanks for confirmation) that the Kirbys were from Pallasgrean or possibly the old parish of Kilmurry.
many thanks for your help.
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Just to add to the confusion. There is a potential marriage in 1871 Rathkeale district of Johanna Kirby to John Gleeson, hope the links work.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYS8-4T5
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYSD-P6P
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Coolcam1,
Thanks but the family had no connection with Rathkeale.
Checking the birth records on Roots for the children of the 2nd Johanna, mother's name is recorded as Kirby, so that probably means that it is more than likely an error on the marriage certificate.
Which leaves the disappointing conclusion that I might not be able to locate Johanna's birth cert and discover her mother's name. Hopefully, I can locate something at the NLI
Thanks for your help.
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According to Census records she was born c 1856-1858. There is a Jane Kirby born to Maurice in 1857 along with other siblings but they are not the same family.
Thanks
According to the census, the Gleesons are living in the next house to a Maurice Kiirby and his family.
heywood
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Hi heywood,
I suspect that Philip Gleeson married into the Kirby property when he married the 1st Johanna as there were no Gleesons there for the Griffiths Valuation Records. Michael was her father.
Thanks,
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I don't think I understand this properly- sorry!
Why do you think that Johanna is not the daughter of Maurice next door?
Are you saying that Philip Gleeson is Maurice's brother in law from earlier marriage?
Griffiths has a Michael Kirby in Linfield and a Catherine Gleeson in Pallas.
You presumably have the certificate from Philip's first marriage with parents' details and the first wife's death?
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Apologies for not replying sooner and not explaining myself better.
The 1st Johanna was from Linfield and her father's name was Michael, probably the Michael that is on Griffiths. I have rather overlooked her as her direct descendants were researching her family. They have not been able to confirm how she was related to the 2 Kirby households on the Census.
The 2nd Johanna was from a nearby townland of Corelish whose father Maurice was deceased at the time of the wedding 1884 according to the Marriage Cert. There are no Kirbys on the Census for Corelish but a Kirby family was certainly there up to 1960s maybe.
Thanks.