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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: park_town on Thursday 13 December 12 17:58 GMT (UK)

Title: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: park_town on Thursday 13 December 12 17:58 GMT (UK)
Hello, I believe his first wife Catherine died in 1880.
1875 Catherine FINLAYSON married 8 Apr at Saint Andrew Presbyterian Church, Auckland, NZ to Rev William McRae, minister in Waipu.

I suppose Rev William McRae married soon after Catherine's death in 1880 and wife number 2 died giving birth to Rose in 1884...pos in either Bathurst New South Wales or Waipu, Northland, New Zealand.

His second wife - name unknown - gave birth to a dau Rose Theresa McRae; the dau's records [marriage cert and death cert] claim she was born 1884 Bathurst New South Wales.

Any ideas please.
Thanks,
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 December 12 20:43 GMT (UK)
the dau's records claim she was born 1884 Bathurst New South Wales.

Hi,
What records do you mean specifically.

What certificates do you have, please?

Sue
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: park_town on Thursday 13 December 12 20:55 GMT (UK)
Sue,

1904 marriage says: born Bathurst NSW, parents names unknown

1952 Rose Teresa Belhamine died 9 Aug Trentham, Wellington NZ aged 68, Death Cert: no names against her father, mother, where born: Bathurst Australia, How long in NZ: 40yrs.
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: Pels. on Thursday 13 December 12 20:59 GMT (UK)





There's also this thread which might help if you know about it :

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,627552.0.html

Pels.
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 December 12 21:05 GMT (UK)
This is confusing.

You have no record at all that William McCRAE was her father?

If the marriage and death certificates show no parents, and you cannot find the birth at all then where do you get the name William Mcrae from?

Sue

Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: park_town on Thursday 13 December 12 21:18 GMT (UK)
Sue, this is confusing. Yeah. You're not wrong, ha ha.

A family letter sets out the story of the father. Losing wife in childbirth and returning to Scotland, then returning to see his dau Rose/Rosina.
The details of the story, both in date/time frame, and places, and events such as his death in Sydney Harbour match the life and times of Rev William McRae.
No I cannot prove he is the father, yet.
That is why I am asking all these questions.
Thanks for taking an interest. Yours was a good question to ask  :)
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: muss on Thursday 13 December 12 23:24 GMT (UK)
Hi

Maybe a request to the Uniting church archives may help

http://nsw.uca.org.au/church/archives.htm

Muss
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: muss on Thursday 13 December 12 23:57 GMT (UK)
Hi

When did Rose marry Mr Belhamine  ?


Muss
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: judb on Friday 14 December 12 07:16 GMT (UK)
NSW Keyname search gives particulars of Intestate Estate papers for William McCrae.  I am not familiar with these records but perhaps they may give his next of kin.  You need to pay to have them copied, I think.

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchhits.aspx?table=Index%20to%20Intestate%20Estate%20Case%20Papers&ID=53&query=mccrae&frm=0

Judith
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: sparrett on Friday 14 December 12 07:36 GMT (UK)
Hi

When did Rose marry Mr Belhamine ?


Muss

Hi Muss.
His name was JOSEPH KERTHOR BELHAMINE .
I have not seen a marriage in Aust or NZ.

A browse through the NZ papers and bmd resource  shows in 1911 He was a deckhand on the ship Duchess and this also was the year of daughter AMYE's birth.

The son names EDWARD THOMAS (Patterson) BELHAMINE was apparently born in 1914, (being killed in ww2 aged 30 in 1944) but I do not see his birth recorded.

JOSEPH was active in the Waterside Workers Union in 1918 and was a wharf labourer living at 13 Duppa Street Berhampore.

In 1945 he was a painter in Pipitea Street.

In 1921 AMYE sang at a concert a song entitiled "I want a Daddy" and did so "remarkably well for so young a child"

Sue


Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: Infobunny on Friday 14 December 12 08:30 GMT (UK)
Hi guys,

Starting tiny here....

Paperspast has the story of Rev William McRae drowning at Wooloomooloo Bay, printed in the Auckland Star, 25 May 1897 on page 5.  The news report states that McRae had a daughter who was resident in NZ, and that he was unattached at the date of death.

William McRae's last posting had been to Gunnedah, NSW as the Presbytarian minister.
The Sydney Morning Herald on 24 April 1897 noted on page 7 that McRae (spelt McCrae) was recovering from a severe accident, that the Australian Town and Country Journal on 24 April 1897, page 8 notes to have been him falling from his horse from Boggabri to Goolhi which probably gave him a concussion or a brain injury which may have contributed to his eventual death a month later.

The Bay of Plenty Times ran an obituary on the Rev on 19 May 1897 on page 2 where they stated that he had come from Scotland to NZ and became a minister in 1872, preached at Waipu for many years, then went back to the Western Highlands in Scotland for some years.  The Rev came back to Waipu in 1895(ish) and then about six months before his death had been in New South Wales.  The report also states that he had been married to Miss Finlayson, his daughter was living in Waipu and his sister was living in New Plymouth.

The vague details concerning dates are as noted in the newspaper report.  The Auckland Star ran the same report on 14 May 1897 on page 3 but also noted that the Rev was a widower at the time of his death.

NZ BDM has no birth record of Rose, nor does the NSW BDM registry.  

The obituaries seem to indicate that William would not have been in Australia long enough to have married or had kids.  William had been offered a posting in Tasmania but had turned it down.  It is quite possible that there may be information missing from his obituary timeline.

The Daily Southern Cross reported on 10 June 1876, page 3 that the Rev was going to Australia for 'a season' for health reasons. The Rev first his resignation from Waipu from March 1879 owing to the fact that his salary was not paid for the time he was in Australia, and that he was going to Otago.  However he wrote a letter to the editor of the New Zealand Herald, published on 8 February 1879, page 6 that he was wrong to accept the Otago posting as the Auckland Presbytary had not accepted his resignation.  The situation was a bit messy overall but permission was granted for him to withdraw his resignation.  The Rev tendered his resignation again in June 1883.

The Auckland Star, 8 November 1884, page 5 noted that the Rev had been called to labour at Northcote and that he had recently returned from Australia.  Auckland passenger lists finds him returning to Auckland on the Tarawera on the 27 August 1884 but he is alone!  The New Zealand Herald on13 October 1884, page 3 noted that the Rev was only visiting but does not note from where!

The Auckland Star, 5 June 1886, page 1 noted the Rev had been called to the New Plymouth presbytary.

The Auckland Star, 4 December 1895, page 4 noted that Waipu had agreed an arrangement for the Rev to come back to work there.

Sorry it's a bit disjointed.  There is one window of opportunity for the truth of Rose Theresa's birth and that's between the Rev's resignation in 1883 and him returning in 1884.  I still can't find an NSW birth using any variation of McRae, Macrae, McCrae, etc.  It may be that her birth was not registered or some other reason.  Was she illegitimate maybe and later recognised by her father?

Will keep poking around.

Cheers
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 15 December 12 03:18 GMT (UK)
Sue, this is confusing. Yeah. You're not wrong, ha ha.

A family letter sets out the story of the father. Losing wife in childbirth and returning to Scotland, then returning to see his dau Rose/Rosina.
The details of the story, both in date/time frame, and places, and events such as his death in Sydney Harbour match the life and times of Rev William McRae.
No I cannot prove he is the father, yet.


Hello anykey

I'm afraid I'm as confused as Sue is.   ???

Can you tell us please, the date of this family letter ?

[It seems somewhat strange that on the occasion of Rose Teresa's 1904 marriage (to ELLIOTT ?), the names of her parents have been omitted from the record ? ]

    ~ Lu


Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 15 December 12 03:31 GMT (UK)

Paperspast has the story of Rev William McRae drowning at Wooloomooloo Bay, printed in the Auckland Star, 25 May 1897 on page 5.  The news report states that McRae had a daughter who was resident in NZ, and that he was unattached at the date of death.

The Bay of Plenty Times ran an obituary on the Rev on 19 May 1897 on page 2 where they stated that he had come from Scotland to NZ and became a minister in 1872, preached at Waipu for many years, then went back to the Western Highlands in Scotland for some years.  The Rev came back to Waipu in 1895(ish) and then about six months before his death had been in New South Wales.  The report also states that he had been married to Miss Finlayson, his daughter was living in Waipu and his sister was living in New Plymouth.


Hi anykey

It would seem that the daughter who survived Rev. William MACRAE (McRAE) and was, according to newspaper reports, residing in Waipu around 1897, was the child of his marriage to Catherine FINLAYSON ... namely, Clara Eleanor MACRAE.

NZ Birth

1878 - MACRAE - Clara Eleanor
Parents:   Catherine and William MACRAE

[also to same parents >  MACRAE - John Kennedy - birth registered 1879 / and his death reg'd. 1880 - aged 7 months ]

                                                                                   see next    >

Title: Re: Cannot find Marriage of Rev William McRae and his second wife
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 15 December 12 03:37 GMT (UK)
From PapersPast (NZ)

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"Northern Advocate" - 29 March 1906 - Wedding Bells

The above article reports the wedding of Miss Clara Eleanor MACRAE, only daughter of the late Rev. W. MACRAE  and grand-daughter of Mr R. FINLAYSON of Waipu  ...

   ~  Lu