RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Libbyandgwen on Friday 07 December 12 10:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Friday 07 December 12 10:50 GMT (UK)
I have noticed several references to this in previous postings.

My husband has written one book about Pernicious Anaemia, and I have recently shown him some of the postings on this site.

In the research for part of his second book he is interested to know of any ancient family history and deaths associated with Pernicious Anaemia (or the American spelling of Anemia), and the area of the country that they occurred. 

He would change any names if refering to any of your stories, (unless of course you wanted the real names mentioned.)

Mant thanks.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 07 December 12 14:30 GMT (UK)
How ancient?  And what country is he interested in?

Dawn M
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Friday 07 December 12 14:33 GMT (UK)
This country mainly and as far back as anyone has details.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Friday 07 December 12 14:40 GMT (UK)
Sorry, this country means UK, I only just realised how vague my answer was !
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 07 December 12 14:47 GMT (UK)
I'm wondering how aware people would have been, hundreds of years ago, of pernicious anaemia and its symptoms and that it could have caused death?

Not sure when they discovered Vit.B12 keeps it in check.

Also, whereas (I believe) its prevalence increases with age, in the dim dark ages people may have put down the general decline and symptoms as just being part of old age?

(My dad developed it at around 80, and I discovered at around 65 that I have it too.)

Dawn M
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Friday 07 December 12 14:54 GMT (UK)
Hi.
The vitamin was not discovered until 1946, but the actual  condition was known about and diagnosed in 1824, so we were looking for stories and diagnosis from then on.
Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Ashgard on Friday 07 December 12 17:59 GMT (UK)
Don't know if this is of any help.  My grandmother (b.1886) was diagnosed with P.A. in 1950.  She was prescribed chopped, raw liver , which she ate mixed in salads.  She had a hard life, brought up six children and lived to be 83.  Though quite healthy she was always very pale.




Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 07 December 12 19:16 GMT (UK)
My daughter has this, she is aged 45.
One of my mother`s sisters  supposedly , had it (had to eat raw liver etc.Died aged 16 1910) and my mother- in- law too but she died recently aged over 100!
These people live(d) in theManchester area.
My niece , daughter of my husband`s sister and  granddaughter to mother-in-law is having tests. She is 51, also M/c area.

My Greatgrandmother (father`s side) had pernicious anaemia but had also had a stroke. she died  in 1905. She was born in 1844 in Pinchbeck Fen Lincolnshire but died in Manchester.                         Further details on request

When my daughter was finally diagnosed they had asked me our family health history and said that although not hereditary it did seem to run in families.
                                                                  Viktoria.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Carmella on Friday 07 December 12 19:58 GMT (UK)
Hi

My Great Grandfather & Great Uncle both had P.A. as reasons for death on their death certificates. 

They were cousins who hailed from the Notts/Yorks border in England.

Gt Gf died aged 77yrs in the 1960s.  His GP had long recommended (cooked) liver. 
Gt U died of it aged 31yrs in 1910. 

How unusual was it to die young of P.A.....?
Gt U would seem to have been healthy enough to be a builder, and he married 3 yrs previously leaving a widow & 2yr old son.

C


Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Yasmina4 on Friday 07 December 12 20:02 GMT (UK)
Hi.
The vitamin was not discovered until 1946, but the actual  condition was known about and diagnosed in 1824, so we were looking for stories and diagnosis from then on.
Thanks for your reply.

My Grandma died of )PA.  She lived in Runcorn most of her life.  Then Rhyl and finally Anglesey. sandra
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Rena on Friday 07 December 12 20:35 GMT (UK)
At the time I counted myself lucky to still have a mother when in the 1950s, in her 40s, she felt so uncommonly tired that she made a rare visit to the local doctor and was diagnosed as having p.a.  I haven't yet come across a death in my ancestors from that cause.

My OHs grandmother, born in the late 19th century also had p.a. in her mid 40s (between WWI and WWII) and had to eat 2 lbs of raw liver daily. ugh
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Yasmina4 on Friday 07 December 12 22:16 GMT (UK)
At the time I counted myself lucky to still have a mother when in the 1950s, in her 40s, she felt so uncommonly tired that she made a rare visit to the local doctor and was diagnosed as having p.a.  I haven't yet come across a death in my ancestors from that cause.

My OHs grandmother, born in the late 19th century also had p.a. in her mid 40s (between WWI and WWII) and had to eat 2 lbs of raw liver daily. ugh


I could never eat that.  sandra
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Rena on Saturday 08 December 12 09:33 GMT (UK)
At the time I counted myself lucky to still have a mother when in the 1950s, in her 40s, she felt so uncommonly tired that she made a rare visit to the local doctor and was diagnosed as having p.a.  I haven't yet come across a death in my ancestors from that cause.

Due to this thread I've become curious as to a possible cause of my mother's anaemia as we always had a varied weekly diet, liver always being included.    I believe that the first website on the subject that I found has given me the answer.

My mother, born in 1918, was in her 50s when she died of cancer of the gullet   At the time a hospital nurse said that this cancer was usual when her patients had had stomach ulcers  .  My mother contracted stomach ulcers in her 20s and was operated on for their removal in 1952.  Since then the Australians discovered this is due to an influenza type virus and this fact excludes my family from inheriting p.a. 

Here's the simple explanation I found of some causes of p.a.

---------
Pernicious anaemia develops when the body becomes unable to absorb vitamin B12 properly from food. Normally a protein known as intrinsic factor, which is made in the stomach, attaches to vitamin B12 and carries through the intestinal wall into the blood stream. However in pernicious anaemia, the stomach cells that produce intrinsic factor become damaged, vitamin B12 is no longer absorbed and a deficiency develops, leading to anaemia.

Such damage can occur as the result of an autoimmune disorder, where the body attacks itself. This tends to run in families and is more likely to occur if someone already has had other auto-immune diseases of the hormone glands such as thyroid disease or diabetes.

Anything that reduces the number of intrinsic factor-producing cells - for example, stomach surgery, ulcers or cancer of the stomach - may also result in deficiency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/perniciousanaemia1.shtml
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Saturday 08 December 12 14:42 GMT (UK)
Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply, lots of interesting replies.

Pernicious Anaemia is indeed the inability to absorb the Vitamin B12, regardless of the diet, and the members of my husband's Society are regularly misdiagnosed with lots of other conditions.

Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Saturday 08 December 12 14:56 GMT (UK)

How unusual was it to die young of P.A.....?



It is not really known about numbers of deaths in young people as, because P.A. is more common in older people, it was probably not commonly even diagnosed in young people.

However, the youngest member of our Pernicious Anaemia Society is just 11 months, with about a hundred or more other youngsters with it, (under 14 years),  so the chances are that years ago there would have been many more that may have died from it, but they were never even diagnosed.

(Also, years ago not everyone could afford doctors anyway, and the doctors that did diagnose people had no tests, they just relied on question after question which hopefully resulted in a diagnosis.)
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Rena on Saturday 08 December 12 17:14 GMT (UK)
Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply, lots of interesting replies.

Pernicious Anaemia is indeed the inability to absorb the Vitamin B12, regardless of the diet, and the members of my husband's Society are regularly misdiagnosed with lots of other conditions.

I meant to paste this quite common symptom into my other reply  .... "bouts of diarrhoea" ...because I certainly wouldn't have connected this to p/anaemia.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Saturday 08 December 12 17:21 GMT (UK)
Oh yes !

My husband's research shows that this was the most common indicator of P.A. in the 1940s.  It is also a symptom that his current members often say they have.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Carmella on Saturday 08 December 12 19:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply & info. 
All the best with your research!
C
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Viktoria on Saturday 08 December 12 20:30 GMT (UK)
My daughter , like me is a chronic indigestion surfferer.

 As they can destroy the intrinsic factor already mentioned , but only because of the intrinsic factor ,she was told that overuse of indigestion remedies can pre-dispose someone to P.A.


She and I have  another auto- immune disease Vitiligo. Our skin, especially in a hot summer and during pregnancy, especially on our faces is very varied in tone .Pale in some places but with a tanned appearance in others. This is nothing to do with sunbathing.                                                 All connected in some way I suppose.
  In the words of . Mrs. Mopp---- "It`s being so cheerful as keeps me going"


                                                         Viktoria.

  P.S.I also have an underactive thyroid.Another auto-immune disease.
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 08 December 12 23:54 GMT (UK)
  Such damage can occur as the result of an autoimmune disorder, where the body attacks itself. This tends to run in families and is more likely to occur if someone already has had other auto-immune diseases of the hormone glands such as thyroid disease or diabetes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/perniciousanaemia1.shtml

So I've got the lot!  Ain't life grand?!   ::)  ::)  ::)

If you live long enough you can get it all - or nothing at all.
My Dad, who had pernicious anaemia, had never been in hospital until in his eighties, and lived to 101.  Sure wasn't the p.a. that killed him, either.

 :)  :)  :)  :)
Dawn M
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Yasmina4 on Sunday 09 December 12 01:19 GMT (UK)
  Such damage can occur as the result of an autoimmune disorder, where the body attacks itself. This tends to run in families and is more likely to occur if someone already has had other auto-immune diseases of the hormone glands such as thyroid disease or diabetes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/perniciousanaemia1.shtml

So I've got the lot!  Ain't life grand?!   ::)  ::)  ::)

If you live long enough you can get it all - or nothing at all.
My Dad, who had pernicious anaemia, had never been in hospital until in his eighties, and lived to 101.  Sure wasn't the p.a. that killed him, either.

 :)  :)  :)  :)

My grandmother died of pernicious anaemia and I remember she took Senna Tea every night...perhaps that stopped her absorbing viatemins?

Sandra
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Yasmina4 on Tuesday 11 December 12 15:22 GMT (UK)
Not sure if I posted this before.

I saw my grandma habitually take Senna Tea every night. Could that have prevented her absorbing B vitamins?  Sandra
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Libbyandgwen on Tuesday 11 December 12 15:41 GMT (UK)
Hi, yes it was added onto the end of the last message, sorry to not have replied yet, but we've never heard of it. What is it taken for then?
Title: Re: Pernicious Anaemia
Post by: Yasmina4 on Tuesday 11 December 12 16:17 GMT (UK)
It was taken for constipation in her case and  I remember her eating charcoal biscuits too.  I was a horrified and mesmerised 7  year old during her strange visit. ::)I remember taking a sneaky taste of both.  Yuk.

Senna tea was made from Senna pods...if i remember correctly they looked a bit like Honesty.

She obviously had digestion problems.

I thonught perhaps she did not really need the tea and rapidly assisted movements preveted her absorbing vitamins etc from her food?

Sandra