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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: shane9 on Thursday 06 December 12 23:13 GMT (UK)

Title: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Thursday 06 December 12 23:13 GMT (UK)
Hi.  I am looking for any details, particularly marriage / children relating to a Samuel Dudley who departed  from Victoria abt > 1895 to Western Australia and returned to Victoria abt <1914.

I am trying to update my family history book and i can not seem to find any records relating to Samuel for that period in WA.

My grandfather wrote "Samuel senior, separated from his second wife on the West Australian gold fields in the early years of this century. A son was born of the marriage."  Everything written by my grandfather about Samuel's time in Victoria (my grandfather was alive at the time of Samuel) have proven to be correct, so i assume his comment about Samuel in WA is also correct but I can not confirm this.

Samuel was born in 1862 in Bullarook (now known as Newlyn) in Victoria.  Died 1932 in Victoria.  He was married 3 time

* Mary Hoobin in 1889 Victoria - She died in 1895 and Samuel left for WA shortly after
* Western Australia - Unknown
* Martha Cobb around 1924 Victoria

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Shane Dudley

 


Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: John Bell on Thursday 06 December 12 23:24 GMT (UK)
Shane,

Aust Electoral Roll.
Coolgardie Area, Western Australia.
1906. Dudley, Samuel. Miner in Mount Morgans, W.A

also
in Kalgoorlie, W.A
1906. Dudley, Sam. Wilson St, Kalgoorlie. Miner.

John
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: rosball on Thursday 06 December 12 23:48 GMT (UK)
A couple of mentions of a Sam Dudley injured in mining accident 1909 and in hospital for 6 months in Kalgoorlie
Miner
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article90482378
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article90648548

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: Dundee on Friday 07 December 12 00:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Shane,

Do you have Samuel's death certificate?  If he didn't actually marry the second partner then the death cert may be the only place you will find her name recorded, though it will of course depend on what the informant knew.  You can download the cert online from the Victorian registry.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 02:32 GMT (UK)
Fitzroy City Press 9 Aug 1895
Deaths
DUDLEY On the 7th August, at 232 Young-street, Fitzroy, after a short illness, Mary Elizabeth, the dearly beloved wife of Samuel Dudley, aged 29 years. R.I.P.

Possible 2nd marriage in Victoria
DUDLEY Samuel born Victoria
STEPH Madeline born Fitzroy
1899  Reg#1382

Birth
DUDLEY Louis
Father Samuel  Mother Madeline STELPH
At Carlton  1899  Reg#25180

I think the surname should be STELPH as there are two women, Catherine and Olga enlisted to vote at Bouverie Street, Carlton in 1903.  Catherine HD and Olga a barmaid.  However an Andrew STELP and Catherine BOLAND were having children at Collingwood, Richmond and Fitzroy to 1875 but I can't see a birth for a Madeline.

Very speculative research.  I noticed the birth of a Margaret to Andrew STELP and Catherine BOLAND in 1875.  Now this death for Louis DUDLEY born 1899 mentions mother unknown READ.  Are Margaret and Madeline the same person?

Deaths
DUDLEY Louis
Father Dudley Samuel  Mother Unknown  READ
At St Arnaud  1933 33 years  Reg#13229

Death with mistranscribed maiden name
REED Margaret
Father Andrew STELK Mother Catherine  BOLAND
At Bendigo  83 years  1964  Reg#10122

Australian Electoral Roll
1903
DUDLEY Madeline  133 Queensberry Street,  HD

1914
DUDLEY Madeline  30 Hanover Street, Fitzroy  Machinist

Quote
*Martha Cobb around 1924 Victoria

Marriage in Victoria
DUDLEY Samuel
GREEN/E Martha
1922  Reg#5633

Australian Electoral Roll
1924
DUDLEY Martha  61 Coppin Street, Richmond  HD
DUDLEY Sam  61 Coppin Street, Richmond  Driver
1931
DUDLEY Martha 79 Miller Street Northcote  HD
DUDLEY Samuel 79 Miller Street Northcote  Labourer

Cando

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 04:29 GMT (UK)
Quote
Death with mistranscribed maiden name
REED Margaret
Father Andrew STELK Mother Catherine  BOLAND
At Bendigo  83 years  1964  Reg#10122

Is this Madeline/Margaret marrying for the second time?

DUDLEY Margaret
REED Richard James
1920  Reg#10920

DUDLEY Margaret
REID Richard James
1920 Reg#10920R

And Louis' marriage

DUDLEY Louis
BROWN Evelyn
1922  Reg#861

Australian Electoral Roll
1924  Wimmera/St Arnaud
DUDLEY Louis  Carapooee   Sharefarmer

1931
DUDLEY Evelyn  Carapooee
DUDLEY Louis  Carapooee   Sharefarmer

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Friday 07 December 12 05:58 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all your help so far.

In response to the queries:

* Yes I have a copy of Samuel's death certificate.  While it is hard to read, very blurry, it only lists two marriages, one to Mary Hoobin and the other at age 61 to a Martha ? ?

* With regards to Samuel in Victoria, my grandfather wrote that , "On his return to Victoria he was licensee of a hotel in Johnson Street, about 1914." and,  "At the time of his death about 1932, he and his wife were licenses of the Watermans Arms Hotel in Little Collins Street, Melbourne."  I can find Samuel living in the Limerick Castle Hotel at 63 Johnston Street Collingwood in the 1914 voter rolls.  In 1919 he appears to be at  56 Easey Street as a Barman.  In 1924 he is with his new wife Martha at Coppin street Richmond.  In 1931 he is with his wife Martha at 79 Miller Street Northcote.  So what my grandfather wrote seems to check out, hence my query re Samuel's time in Western Australia.

* Cando - I can not find the following Marriage Ancestry.com??? (i must be doing something wrong), but it does look good

DUDLEY Samuel
GREEN/E Martha
1922  Reg#5633

 With regards to Samuel's wife Martha at the time of his death in 1932. All i have managed to find is his will which states that he gives his estate to Martha Dudley and her daughter Ruby Gilbey Cobb of 79 Miller Street.  I can see in the voter rolls of 1936 that a Martha Dudley and Ruby Elizabeth Dudley are sharing a house in East Melbourne.

 
* Samuel was definitely not in Victoria post 23 August 1895 (his wife died in early August) as i have his original letter to his brothers saying that he is going to WA.  Its a sad letter asking that the family look after his surviving son Samuel Junior.

Thanks again for all your help so far

Shane Dudley
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 06:43 GMT (UK)
Ancestry do not have all the Victorian bdm's that are available on other resources as well as online.
 http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

Information on death certificates only as good as the knowledge of the informant.  Just because his 2nd marriage isn't listed doesn't mean it didn't occur.  Who was the informant?

How do you know Samuel didn't return to Victoria to marry?  I noticed a STELP in WA in 1903.  Perhaps he was a relative or perhaps her father :-\ 

You need to see the 1899 marriage cert to proceed with your research.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 07 December 12 07:05 GMT (UK)
Deleted.
S :Somehow posted twice
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Friday 07 December 12 07:11 GMT (UK)
As a sideline-
I think the Andrew STELP in WA may well have been the father of MADELINE/MARGARET. There seem to be no others of the name around that time.

He had married in 1923 to GERTRUDE DARGEedit DRAGE whose son  (Andrew's stepson) died a little mysteriously in WA. in 1923 (#15)

GERTRUDE and ANDREW divorced in 1934 and there are accounts of his conduct etc in the papers.

ANDREW's wife CATHERINE had died in 1907. ANDREW died in 1948 at Kattaning (#30)

Sue

 
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 07:48 GMT (UK)
That's the info I found but I think Andrew would be a tad old to be re-marrying in 1923 as he was fathering children in Victoria from 1870.  There is no marriage in Victoria for Andrew STELP and Catherine BOLAND it is possible that Andrew in WA may be his son possibly born overseas :-\.  According to Catherine's death registration in 1907 she was born c1837.

Cheers  :D
Cando

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 08:14 GMT (UK)
According to this record Andrew was born c1837.

STELP Andrew  24 years
Admitted 20 May 1871
Doctor Wilkie
Melbourne Hospital Book# 302  Page#7

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 13:29 GMT (UK)
Marriage
LAVELL Andrew born Longford
GREEN Martha born Longford
1910  Reg#5830

Quote
I can find Samuel living in the Limerick Castle Hotel at 63 Johnston Street Collingwood in the 1914 voter rolls.  In 1919 he appears to be at  56 Easey Street as a Barman. In 1924 he is with his new wife Martha at Coppin street Richmond.
It would appear they were living together well before their marriage in 1924.

Australian Electoral Roll
1914
LA VELL Martha  Limerick Castle Hotel  Johnston Street  Collingwood  Licensee

1919
LA VELL Martha  56 Easey Street, Collingwood  Home duties

Quote
I can see in the voter rolls of 1936 that a Martha Dudley and Ruby Elizabeth Dudley are sharing a house in East Melbourne.

This is not your Martha on the 1936 electoral roll.  These people were on the 1919 electoral roll living at Euroa with the same occupations.

You have stated
Quote
he gives his estate to Martha Dudley and her daughter Ruby Gilbey Cobb

Birth
GREEN Ruby Gilby
Father Unknown  Mother Martha GREEN
At Carlton 1905  Reg#9029

Marriages
LAVELL Ruby Gilby
COBB Roy James
1925  Reg#11770

In 1930 Roy James COBB was living in NSW.  He died 9 Aug 1989 aged 87 years in Melbourne and was cremated at Fawkner Memorial Park. His ashes were scattered. 

Marriage
LAVELL Ruby Gilbied [sic]
EVANS Archie Leonard Stewart
1935  Reg#13574

Death
EVANS Ruby Gilby
Parents Unknown
At Melbourne  1978  72 years  Reg#161

Australian Electoral Roll

Archie Leonard Stewart EVANS was in WA in 1916 and Qld 1919
1937
EVANS Leonard Stewart  81 Miller Street, Northcote  Driver
EVANS Ruby Gilbee  81 Miller Street, Northcote  HD

1942
EVANS Leonard Stewart  2 Fraser Street Glenhuntly  Driver
EVANS Ruby Gilbey  2 Fraser Street Glenhuntly  HD

1954
EVANS Ruby Gilbey  20 Palmerston Crescent, South Melbourne  Barmaid

1963
EVANS Ruby Gilbey  Flat 6/366 Carlisle Street, Ripponlea  Sales Cashier

1968
EVANS Ruby Gilby   102 Tooronga Road, Malvern East  No occupation

1972
EVANS Ruby Gilby  25 Orange Road Balaclava  No occupation

1977
EVANS Ruby Gilby 3/10 Tennyson Street, St Kilda  No occupation

Buried at Springvale Botanical Cemetery
EVANS  Ruby Evans   73 years
Religion Roman Catholic     Died 27 Dec 1977  Buried  27 Dec 1977   
Located at    Dr. McLorinan Lawn, Lawn/Lawn Beam, Row R Grave# 66    

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 07 December 12 13:58 GMT (UK)
Andrew Duncan LAVELL has a service file on http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=7378159&S=1&T=R

When he inlisted in 1915 his NOK was Mathar [sic] LAVELL with address Clark [sic] of Courts, Collingwood Town Hall.  It would appear they were separated by this date.  His address was in Clifton Hill.

Argus Tue 14 Feb 1922
DIVORCE COURT
Before the Chief Justice in the Practice Court yesterday, Martha Lavell, of Carnarvon street, Brunswick, sought a dissolution of her marriage with Andrew Lavell, of A'Beckett street, Melbourne, on the grounds of desertion. The marriage, it was explained, took place in July, 1010, and about 12 months later, said Mrs. Lavell, her husband deserted her. She had since been told that he was living with another woman in Carlton. A decree nisi was granted, with costs. Mr. T Power appeared for the petitioner.

This looks like Martha's birth
GREEN Martha
Father Charles  Mother Eliza WEBB
At Sale  1884  Reg#5207

Cando

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Saturday 08 December 12 05:19 GMT (UK)
Cando

Thanks for all your help.  The information you supplied was most helpful.  :)

Cheers

Shane Dudley
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Saturday 08 December 12 05:26 GMT (UK)
Have you purchased any certs to validate the research?

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Sunday 09 December 12 08:47 GMT (UK)
Cando

Yes I have.

I have a copy of Samuel Dudley's death certificate, a copy of his first marriage certificate and a copy of his will.  I also have a copy of his father's and mother's death certificates and wills, plus some of his original letters to his family.  I am also planning on going to the cemetery soon and taking a few pictures of the headstones, were they exist.

Am I missing something?

Samuel's direct line of relatives (he is my great grand uncle) who live in Queensland (i am in Victoria) have been asking me questions about him and i am trying my best to fill in the blanks.  They are very interested in his time in WA (looking for lost relatives if they exist) and his first wife Mary Hoobin.

Mary Hoobin is proving a challenge also.  I know she died in 1895, and from her marriage certificate I know she was born in Galway Ireland around 1866 to a Peter Hoobin and Bridget Cunniffe.  From my grandfathers book he said that, "After leaving home as a young man he married Mary Hooban, whose parents were hotel-keepers in South Melbourne. He (Samuel Dudley) at times acted as host to his younger brother Jim from the country, when on an occasional visit to Melbourne."  The challenge is that there appears to be quiet a few Hoobin's who were hotel keepers in Melbourne at the time, who were reported to be of low morals (as per police reports in The Argus).  The trouble i am having is that i can not find Mary Hoobin and her parents entering Victoria (must have been prior to her wedding in June 1889), and I can not make a connection to the Mary's family and the other Hoobin's that were hotel keepers all over Melbourne up until the 1950's.  The Hoobin hotel keepers mentioned in The Argus I think were a group of brothers originally from South Australia.  There must be some connection there somewhere so I will keep looking.

Thanks for all your help Cando.  If you have any ideas re Mary Hoobin I would be greatful.

Cheers

Shane Dudley









Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 December 12 22:27 GMT (UK)
Perhaps his second marriage cert may have info about his first marriage ie it should have and if it is your man.  Usually shown - marital state and number of children living and/or deceased if applicable. I doubt you will find anymore about his time in WA other than the electoral listings and news snippets ie if it is him who was injured.  What else are you expecting to find?  It would appear his ?second wife did not go to WA.

I'm not at home so have no resources to help with his first wife's family.

Cheers  :)
Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 10 December 12 03:57 GMT (UK)
A quick search of the Victorian indexes shows there were anumber of Children of PETER and BRIDGET (nee Cunliffe)  HOOBIN in the Hotel business round inner Melbourne.

I have not seen a death for PETER though BRIDGET's death is indexed.(below)

Here also is a Memorial Inscription from Melbourne Cemetery for BRIDGET and daughter MARY DUDLEY

HOOBIN

In loving memory of my dear mother
Bridget HOOBIN who died 23 Jun 1914, age 89 years
and of my sister
Mary DUDLEY who died 7 Aug 1895, age 29 years
and her two infant children
Bridget A. HOOBIN died 22 Apr 1957.

Date 3/3/1894.Location RC  Sectioon BB

There are many of the family memorialised at MELBOURNE CEMETERY and some of their genealogy is explained on these memorials

Death


HOOBIN  Bridget
Father Cuiniff
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 89
 Death Place Ncote
Year 1914
Reg.  7001


 Sue
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 04:04 GMT (UK)
From IGI
Birth   
HUBAN Mary   
7 Apr 1866
At Gort, Galway, Ireland,
Father Peter  Mother Bridget CUNNIFFE

Siblings
HOBAN Thomas   
5 Oct 1868
At Galway, Ireland
Father Peter  Mother Bridget CUNNIFFE

HOBAN Anne
4 Apr 1876
At ? RaNern, Galway, Ireland
Father Perer  Mother Bridge Hoban CUNNIFFE

Peter HOOBIN 21 years,  arriving South Australia 1879
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0si7/

John 20 years and Patrick HOOBIN 18 years arriving South Australia 1881
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0si6/

Marriages Victoria
HOOBIN Mary Elizabeth born Ireland
DUDLEY Saml
1889 Reg# 2591

HOOBIN Patrick born Ireland
HEALY Bridget
1889  Reg#5465

HOOBIN Peter born Galway
MOLONEY Nora
1890  Reg#7961

HOOBIN John born Galway
ODONOGHUE Nora
1894  Reg#1736

Deaths - Bridget Snr.
HOOBIN Bridget
Father: Cuiniff  Mother Unknow UNKNOWN
At Northcote  1914  89 years  Reg#7001

Interred at Melbourne General Cemetery - Roman Catholic Section Z 1017

In loving memory of
my dear mother
Bridget HOOBIN
who died 23 Jun 1914, age 89 years
and of my sister
Mary DUDLEY
who died 7 Aug 1895, age 29 years
and her two infant children
Bridget A. HOOBIN
died 22 Apr 1957.



HOOBIN Patrick
Parents unknown
At Melbourne  99 years  1954  Reg#7067

Interred at Melbourne General Cemetery - Roman Catholic Section ZA 325A

In memory of
Mary Ellen
beloved daughter of Patrick and Bridget HOOBIN
died 1 Aug 1928, age 36 years
Patrick HOOBIN
died 26 Jun 1954
and of their infant daughter
Eileen Margaret HOOBIN.

I can't see an arrival for Bridget Snr and Peter.  I doubt he came to Australia.

I have more on the family but see Sue is posting similar information :)

Cando








Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 10 December 12 04:12 GMT (UK)

This is the death of the woman who authored the Memorial Inscription

HOOBIN Bridget
Healy Edward
Mother Mary  CAHILL
Death Place:KEW
Age 87
Year:1957
Reg Number:4500

Her marriage 

HOOBIN Pat
To HEALY Bridt
His Birth Place: IRELAND
Year 1889
Reg. 5465

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 04:13 GMT (UK)
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
There are three files at PROV - 2 Wills and Letters of Admon for John died 1902, Peter died 1907 and Thomas 1918.

You can search for records for Hotel Licensee's here -
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0si8/

You can search TROVE for the numerous news items about the HOOBIN's

Do you want any further information on the HOOBIN's ie deaths of Mary's siblings, electoral roll info etc etc?  

There were a number of HOOBIN's in South Australia.  Perhaps they were the reason that Patrick, Peter and John emigrated there initially.

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 10 December 12 04:20 GMT (UK)
Perhaps the son of MARY and SAMUEL married in SA




Samuel William Dudley

Father's Name Samuel Dudley
To Ida Sophia Muller
Her Father's Name: Johann Franz Muller
Date 14 Mar 1916
At Mount Gambier
Registered at Grey, South Australia
Page   818
Volume   266

Sue
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 04:30 GMT (UK)
Perhaps the OP has this information as he was initially only interested in Samuel's time in WA and now the HOOBIN family. 

I think your information is incorrect with Mary's parents being hotel keepers.  It was Mary's brothers who emigrated to South Australia, who were the hotel keepers.

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 05:00 GMT (UK)
Arriving 1882 as Assisted Immigrants - need to search further for their actual date arrival and the vessel.
HOOBIN Bartholomew
HOOBIN Mary

And on the ASHMORE in 1885 - Assisted immigrants
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0si9/
HOOBIN Bridget
HOOBIN Thomas
HOOBIN Bridget
HOOBIN  Anne   

I see no record for Peter, the father on the passenger lists in South Australia.

Cando
                      
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 05:14 GMT (UK)
Death in South Australia - and it usual for the father of a deceased child to be named but whether or not he was in South Australia is doubtful.

HOOBIN Annie  11 years  Status Child  Relative Peter HOOBIN [Father]
13 Jul 1886 
Residence Kensington  Death Place Kensington  Nor Symbol S 156/394

The Symbol S can supplementary extra information including that the deceased child's father is deceased.

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 05:31 GMT (UK)
Arriving 1882 as Assisted Immigrants - need to search further for their actual date arrival and the vessel.
HOOBIN Bartholomew
HOOBIN Mary

Cando                  

They arrived on the CORONA 26 Sep 1882.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sia/

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 10 December 12 06:50 GMT (UK)
Perhaps the OP has this information as he was initially only interested in Samuel's time in WA and now the HOOBIN family.   

Hard to know ;)

The couple are buried together-

Cemetery   Lake Terrace Cemetery - Mount Gambier
 DUDLEY, IDA SOPHIA 
Section   K
Grave 1305
Date 31/10/1969
Age at Death 77 YEARS

Surname   DUDLEY, SAMUAL (sic) WILLIAM 
Section K
Grave 1305
Date  17/12/1975
Age at Death 83 YEARS


Nasty accident to SAMUEL WILLIAM in 1929

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/35745923?searchTerm="mr s w  dudley"&searchLimits=

Sue


Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 09:47 GMT (UK)
Looks like Shane's tree online
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/u/d/Shane-P-Dudley/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0074.html

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Monday 10 December 12 14:36 GMT (UK)
subscribinge

Thank you so much, I just love coming home and checking my emails now.  The information you are supplying is just great, although it is showing just how little i know about searching and how much is not on ancestry.com which i am suscribing.

Looks like Shane's tree online
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/d/u/d/Shane-P-Dudley/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0074.html

Cando

Yes this is me.  I have not updated that file in many years.  I think i should delete it as its so out of date.

Perhaps the son of MARY and SAMUEL married in SA




Samuel William Dudley

Father's Name Samuel Dudley
To Ida Sophia Muller
Her Father's Name: Johann Franz Muller
Date 14 Mar 1916
At Mount Gambier
Registered at Grey, South Australia
Page 818
Volume 266

Sue


This is Samuel's and Mary Hoobin's only surviving son who moved from Victoria to Mount Gambier around the early 1900's.  I know their son Keith Dudley, so I have pretty good records for this period.

Death in South Australia - and it usual for the father of a deceased child to be named but whether or not he was in South Australia is doubtful.

HOOBIN Annie 11 years Status Child Relative Peter HOOBIN [Father]
13 Jul 1886
Residence Kensington Death Place Kensington Nor Symbol S 156/394

The Symbol S can supplementary extra information including that the deceased child's father is deceased.

Cando

There was a large family of Hoobin's in South Australia about the time Mary and Bridget , Peter, John and the rest came to Australia.  What is confusing is that they share so many common names.  I have been ignoring any South Australian references.

Perhaps the OP has this information as he was initially only interested in Samuel's time in WA and now the HOOBIN family.

I think your information is incorrect with Mary's parents being hotel keepers. It was Mary's brothers who emigrated to South Australia, who were the hotel keepers.

Cando

I think I agree with you. Samuel appears to be working for the Hoobin's as opposed to being the actual licence.

A quick search of the Victorian indexes shows there were a number of Children of PETER and BRIDGET (nee Cunniffe) HOOBIN in the Hotel business round inner Melbourne.

I have not seen a death for PETER though BRIDGET's death is indexed.(below)

Here also is a Memorial Inscription from Melbourne Cemetery for BRIDGET and daughter MARY DUDLEY

HOOBIN

In loving memory of my dear mother
Bridget HOOBIN who died 23 Jun 1914, age 89 years
and of my sister
Mary DUDLEY who died 7 Aug 1895, age 29 years
and her two infant children
Bridget A. HOOBIN died 22 Apr 1957.

Date 3/3/1894.Location RC Section BB

There are many of the family memorialised at MELBOURNE CEMETERY and some of their genealogy is explained on these memorials

Death


HOOBIN Bridget
Father Cuiniff
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 89
 Death Place Ncote
Year 1914
Reg. 7001


 Sue

All the names and the relationships are a 100% match, the only thing that looks odd is the age of Bridget Hoobin in 1914 of 89 years.  That means she was born around 1825, and she was around 41 years old when she had Mary.  If she was Thomas's mother she was about 43 when giving birth, and if she was Anne's mother then she was 51 years old at the time.  Very impressive.

I do have some old correspondence from a Mike Cunniffe in 2003 who saw my tree online and contacted me.  He said that he is related to Bridget (Hoobin)Cunniffe and was updating his history at the time. He said she was born in 1846 (one of three children John, Mary and Bridget) to Michael Cunniffe and Ellen Craddock.  Its all unverified, but the birth date of 1846 looks better.

Arriving 1882 as Assisted Immigrants - need to search further for their actual date arrival and the vessel.
HOOBIN Bartholomew
HOOBIN Mary

And on the ASHMORE in 1885 - Assisted immigrants
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0si9/
HOOBIN Bridget
HOOBIN Thomas
HOOBIN Bridget
HOOBIN Anne   

I see no record for Peter, the father on the passenger lists in South Australia.

Cando
                      


Its a shame that they did not list the passengers ages as that would have been a great help. 

So it looks like 10 Hoobin's migrated to SA from 1879 to 1885.  The only Hoobin children of Peter and Bridget Cunniffe that I can pretty much say at this point are 100% match (from BDM quoting the parents names) are Mary, Peter, Bartholomew (died NSW 1923) and John.  I think I agree with you in that their father Peter does not seem to have made the trip to Australia with them.

Its getting pretty late and I think I will have another look at all your information again tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your help

Shane Dudley







Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Monday 10 December 12 21:31 GMT (UK)
Shane I would not ignore SA unformation. John and Mary HOOBIN who lived at Macclesfield had a number of children.  John had the Macclesfield Hotel at one stage and ther are many refernces to him and his family.  His age at death indicated that he may have been of Peter and Bridget's generation.  Not at my computer at the moment so can't access my resources.

I did see  refernce to. Mr HOOBIN passing through Murray Bridge with others on his overland trip to Melbourne in the 1880's. There may have been more than one HOOBIN on the list.

Information on death certificates is only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant and I wonder who was the informant.  I think you need to see Bridget's death certificate and Samuel's possible second marriage certificate assist your research. You haven't mentioned Patrick as another possible son of Peter and Bridget  Perhaps his marriage certificate would also be helpful. 

There was a John HOOBIN in Victoria in 1856 and number of the descendants of the SA HOOBIN's also came to Victoria but at a later time.

Assisted Immigrant records are at SA Archives and SLSA. Some of the information can be scant. Have a browse through the resources for SA and Vic at the top of the page under Australian Resources. I wish everyone seeking information in Australia would read them.

Cheers :)
Cando

None of my research was on the website you mentioned ;)
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: sparrett on Monday 10 December 12 21:38 GMT (UK)
The only Hoobin children of Peter and Bridget Cunniffe that I can pretty much say at this point are 100% match (from BDM quoting the parents names) are Mary, Peter, Bartholomew (died NSW 1923

18225/1923  HOOBIN  BARTHOLOMEW E
Parents  PETER &  MARY
 LIVERPOOL


This is either an error on the part of the informant or this man was from The SA Macclesfield family of JOHN and MARY HOOBIN

Sue     
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: Rhonda May on Tuesday 11 December 12 01:52 GMT (UK)

The only Hoobin children of Peter and Bridget Cunniffe that I can pretty much say at this point are 100% match (from BDM quoting the parents names) are Mary, Peter, Bartholomew (died NSW 1923
Sue


Also
Annie aged 11 died 13 Jul 1886 Nor/bk 156/pg 394. A year after arrival in SA.
John aged 44 died Melb E in 1902 Reg #6320
Thomas aged 48 d. Melb W in 1918 Reg #2533


Rhonda

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: Rhonda May on Tuesday 11 December 12 02:14 GMT (UK)
John and Mary HOOBIN of Macclesfield SA had a son Bartholomew Francis born c1870 who died in SA in 1956 at the age of 86y, so not their Bartholomew who died in Sydney in 1923.

A Bartholomew HOOBIN in VIC with a brother John.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/6258393?searchTerm="Bartholomew HOOBIN"&searchLimits=

Rhonda
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: Rhonda May on Tuesday 11 December 12 02:25 GMT (UK)
Dimwit me . . . just realised this was brother and sister!
Arriving 1882 as Assisted Immigrants
HOOBIN Bartholomew
HOOBIN Mary


Rhonda
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 December 12 03:25 GMT (UK)
The only Hoobin children of Peter and Bridget Cunniffe that I can pretty much say at this point are 100% match (from BDM quoting the parents names) are Mary, Peter, Bartholomew (died NSW 1923

18225/1923  HOOBIN  BARTHOLOMEW E
Parents  PETER &  MARY
 LIVERPOOL


This is either an error on the part of the informant or this man was from The SA Macclesfield family of JOHN and MARY HOOBIN

Sue    

3 Aug 1896
HOOBIN.-On the 30th July, at Bull's Creek, suddenly, John Hoobin, aged 74 years, leaving a loving wife, 11 children, and 10 grandchildren to mourn their less. A colonist of 42 yearn. R.I.P.


John and Mary's arrival -
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/hyderabad1854.shtml

From BISA - not 100% accurate but a good resource for starting your research in South Australia. My additions in blue font from marriage and death indexes.

HOOBIN John born c1829 Co Clare, Ireland
Arrived 1854 on the HYDERABAD  Died 30 Jul 1896 Paris Creek
Occupation Agricultural Labourer   Lived Adelaide  Religion Roman Catholic
Married Mary GRADY born c1834 Co Clare, Ireland. Died
Children - Mary 1854-, Michael 1855-1925 NSW, Elizabeth Agnes DITTMER
1857-1933, Patrick 1859-1954 NSW, John 1861-1911 NSW, Thomas Andrew 1863-1928, Peter c1866-1952, Laurence Joseph c1867-1948, Bartholomew c1870-1956, Margaret Ann PHELAN c1871-1942, Bridget H G GLOVER c1875-, and Mathias 1877-1878.

There are no births registered to this couple in SA as there was a reluctance for some sections of the community including the Roman Catholics and the Scottish to register their children.

I have more but feel this is enough on the SA HOOBIN's for you so you can be assured of the HOOBIN's in the hotel trade in Vic are Bridget's children.

Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 December 12 04:43 GMT (UK)
Shane do you think these are the children of Peter HOOBIN and Bridget CUNNIFFEc1825-1914

Bridget  - see below
Peter    c1857 - 16 Jun 1907
John     c1858 - 4 Apr 1902
Bartholomew  - 1923
Patrick   c1864 - 1954
Mary     7 Apr 1866-1895
Thomas 5 Oct 1868 - 18 Feb 1918
Annie    4 Apr 1876 -13 Jul 1886

This is the only Bridget HOOBIN death I can find with has no parents listed.  Could Bridget possibly have gone to NSW with Bartholomew.  Could she have died in childbirth?  Is she the mother of Annie born 1876 as you have pointed out Bridget, her mother is too old, according to her age at death, to be having a child when c51 years.  A Patrick HOOBEN was in Sydney in 1893 according to a snip re hotel licences in the SMH.

Deaths
137/1890    
HOOBIN Bridget
Parents Unknown
District Sydney

278/1890    
HOOBIN Lulie
Father not named  MOther Bridget
District Sydney   
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Tuesday 11 December 12 09:12 GMT (UK)
Guys

Sorry about the typos last night, dam spell check.

I have bitten the bullet and ordered the two documents:
Samuel Dudley's 1922 marriage to Martha and
Bridget Hoobin's 1914 Death Certificate

Regards Samuel's 1922 marriage certificate, it only lists one previous marriage to Mary Hoobin and no additional children.  No mention of WA at all.

Regards Bridget Hoobin's death certificate, it lists lots of useful information.  I would attach a copy if I knew how.  The main points are:

She had 8 children listed in the following order:

1 Peter - Dead
2 Bridget - Dead
3 Patrick - Age 52
4 Bartholomew - Age 48
5 Thomas - Age 46
6 John - Dead
7 Mary - Dead
8 Anne - Dead

Regards her Husband it says
- Husband - Peter Hoobin
- Age at Marriage - 20 years
- Place - England

Place Born
- Galway Ireland
- 1 year in South Australia
- 29 years in Victoria

Parents
- Father Unknown Cuiniff
- Mother Unknown

Age
- 89 years (this does not look correct to me)

Place Died
- Convent of the Little Sisters of the Poor, City of Northcote

I will sit down and look through your great notes and input together with the new information and try and make it all fit together.  But it does look like all those Hoobin's that arrived from 1879 to 1885 were the one family.


Cheers

Shane Dudley

Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Tuesday 11 December 12 09:14 GMT (UK)
Sorry, just saw how to add an attachment

Cheers

Shane
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Tuesday 11 December 12 11:33 GMT (UK)
Quote
He said she was born in 1846 (one of three children John, Mary and Bridget) to Michael Cunniffe and Ellen Craddock.

Quote
Age
- 89 years (this does not look correct to me)

It would appear from the order of the children on Bridget's death certificate that Peter may have been the eldest and according to his death registration he was born c1857 so doubt she was born 1846.

Quote
Regards Samuel's 1922 marriage certificate, it only lists one previous marriage to Mary Hoobin and no additional children.  No mention of WA at all.

I think I would have purchased the certificate of what I suspect is his 2nd marriage.  You know he married Martha GREEN.  Gee bit of an age gap!

 
Perhaps his second marriage cert may have info about his first marriage ie it should have and if it is your man.  Usually shown - marital state and number of children living and/or deceased if applicable. I doubt you will find anymore about his time in WA other than the electoral listings and news snippets ie if it is him who was injured.  What else are you expecting to find?  It would appear his ?second wife did not go to WA.
Cando

It appears to me that either the informant or the registrar couldn't make up their minds whether Bridget was married in England or Ireland.  I suspect it was Ireland. Look at the 'r' and compare it to the 'n's on the page.  I noticed a number of HOBIN's and CUNNIFFE's on the Griffiths Valuations in Galway.  There is a marriage of a Bridget CUNNIFFE in 1856 in England but not to a Peter HOOBIN.  I suppose there is always the possibility that her marriage to Peter was her second, however as her eldest son was named Peter I doubt it.


Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: shane9 on Wednesday 26 December 12 02:58 GMT (UK)
I have finally a bit of time to sit down and look at all the responses.  Thanks everyone for the input.

I think I have a good position on the Hoobin's and have attached a summary table of that family.

Regards Samuel, I think he only had two marriages and not three.  The first marriage to Mary Hoobin in 1889 and a second to Martha Green in 1922.  Can not find a record of a marriage for Samuel during his time in WA from 1895 to about 1911 and there is no mention of a marriage in WA in his Martha Green marriage certificate or his death certificate.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Merry Christmas
Shane Dudley
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: cando on Wednesday 26 December 12 03:14 GMT (UK)
I disagree with your comment that simply because you cannot find a marriage in WA and a possible second marriage is not mentioned on the later marriage cert, that it did not occur.

Can you prove that and yes you would need to purchase the marriage I found in Victoria.

You appear to have ignored the research about Madeline/Margaret STEPH.

Marriage
DUDLEY Samuel born Victoria
STEPH Madeline born Fitzroy
1899  Reg#1382

And Season's Greetings to you as well :D

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: kathy layfield on Tuesday 24 May 16 10:01 BST (UK)
HI Shane i thought you might like a little more information regarding Samuel Dudiey and Margaret Stelp. They were married in 1899 their son Louis was born in 1899 and was put in the st Vincents De Paul Orphanage was taken out and was working on the Thains property in St arnaud .He married Eveyln Brown in St Arnaud and had three children.Their first daughter Evelyn also known as moya was put into St Adians Orphanage Bendigo she was born in 1922 Was adopted by mary Thain and did not know Louis And evelyn Dudley were her real parents until she was married with children of her own .so John and Ita Dudley are her siblings Moya Married Lionel Layfield 1n 1943 And died in 2002 aged 92 .Louis and Evelyn dudley are my husband grandparents
                                                                                     regards kathy
Title: Re: Samuel Dudley - Western Australia
Post by: xX.M.J.L.X.x on Monday 04 January 21 06:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,

I've just found this site while trying to track down my 4x great grandparents.
I saw this post and I'm not sure how much help I can be but Martha Green was once my great grandmother.
She was married to my great grandfather Andrew Lavell for a very short period of time.
I also have contact with one Annie Green's grandchildren... Annie Green was Martha's sister