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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Peggy13 on Thursday 06 December 12 21:33 GMT (UK)
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Today, I read the will of William Finlay Giffen, wife Jane Fee, and he died in 1876 in Ballyhenry. In the will he names a nephew Samuel Giffen McIlwain wife a wife Margaret. So I looked at all of William's sisters to see which one could have married a McIlwain. There is Jane, Margaret Ann, and Agnes. Then I looked at the Carnmoney baptisms and in 1848, I found the baptism of a Janet Bigger McIlwaine, with parents James McIlwaine and Agnes Giffen. So I am thinking it was his sister Agnes married to James McIlwaine. I did not find the baptims of a Samuel Giffen McIlwain but there are big gaps in the baptisms for Carnmoney Parish. Can anyone confirm the parents of Samuel Giffen McIlwain or the marriage of James McIlwain and Agnes Giffen. Agnes was born 1801 so marriage likely about 1820-1830 in Carnmoney. Thanks so much for any help.
William also named another nephew William Giffen Kennedy. So if Agnes married McIlwain, that leaves Jane or Margaret Ann to marry a Kennedy.
Any help appreciated.
Peggy
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Carnmoney Presbyterian Church also has a baptism for William F. Giffin McIlwaine in 1836.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,521542.10.html
Did Samuel Giffen McIlwaine marry? If so, marriage certificate should list father's name and occupation.
See www.proni.gov.uk-
"Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Samuel Giffen M'Ilwaine late of Glynn View Villas Larne County Antrim Retired Farmer who died 29 February 1884 at same place were granted at Belfast to Margaret M'Ilwaine of Glynn View Villas Larne the Widow."
Possibly Samuel's widow?
"The Will of Margaret M'Ilwaine late of Jordanstown County Antrim Widow who died 4 November 1884 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Smyth of Dunaney Richard Dawson Boyd (Junior) of Cloughfern and Hugh Smyth of Dunaney all in said County Farmers the Executors."
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thank you, aghadowey. I had missed the baptism of William McIlwaine in 1836. At the time that William Finlay Giffen wrote his will in 1876, his nephew Samuel Giffen McIlwain and wife Margaret were living in Ballyduff. After I received your reply, I went to familysearch to search for Samuel Giffen McIlwaine with parents James and Agnes (I had done so before) but this time, up came a tree for Samuel with parents James and Agnes. So I went to the tree and got all excited as it had her parents correct and a date of marriage of 1835. Looking good. And I clicked on Samuel's name, and it had wife Margaret Boyd. More excitement, as it is really the Boyd family that I am basically researching. Then I clicked on Margaret's name and it had her born in 1400, daughter of Thomas Boyd. How can that be? Samuel is born after 1835 (marriage date of parents) and his wife is born 1400???? so I went to Proni to look at Samuel's will and it may be the right one but there are no images. The place of residence is not Ballyduff but they could have moved or maybe Glynn View Villas Larne is in Ballyduff - I don't know. So I went to Margaret's will, and it does say that her maiden name is Boyd. Margaret mentions her sister Sarah Elizabeth Smyth nee Boyd as well as other Boyd siblings. The earlier will that I had found for William Finlay Giffen had also mentioned Elizabeth Smyth and her husband William,so I think this is the correct Margaret McIlwaine. Too bad there are no images for Samuel's will. In Margaret's will, she says that she is entitled to a portion of an insurance policy via the will of Samuel Giffen of Ballyduff so unsure if she means her late husband Samuel Giffen McIlwaine or another person. I think she does mean her late husband as she mentions Ballyduff. This portion of the insurance Margaret wills to her sister Sarah Elizabeth. Now I have to figure out who Margaret Boyd, Elizabeth Boyd, Richard Dawson Boyd, and Mary Jane Boyd are the children of. Maybe it is Thomas, but Margaret is not born in 1400. Also to find out the relationship of Thomas and Hugh Smyth to Sarah Elizabeth Smyth, wife of William Smyth.
Also wondering if William F. Giffen's sister Agnes remarried to a Kennedy after her marriage to James McIlwaine, as William F. Giffen's will mentions Agnes Kennedy senior as well as William Finlay Kennedy.
Thank you very much.
Peggy
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One slight error. William Smyth mentioned in William Finlay Giffen's will was married to Eliza Rodgers. It was William Smyth's son Hugh that was married to Sarah Elizabeth Boyd who was born Jan 1862.
Peggy
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so I went to Proni to look at Samuel's will and it may be the right one but there are no images.
If you read the excerpt again you will see that it says letters of administration which means there was no Will.
Glen View Villas Larne is in Larne.
1910- M'Roberts, Matthew, Glynn View villa
http://www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Larne2.php
possibly this address in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Curran_Street/195932
1901- Cousins, J. F., Glynn View Villas
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/PT1901L1.htm
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Glynn_View_Villas/995934
You can search other directories on PRONI's website.
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Thank you Aghadowey. So Samuel moved between 1876 and 1884.
The article from Lennox Wylie is particularly informative.
Peggy
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Hi, I just found this which helps me regarding Ballyduff.
Peggy
Carnmoney as a name has come to represent Carnmoney Village (previously known as Ballyduff).
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Peggy,
"Carnmoney" is ambiguous, so can be confusing.
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It is the name of the large civil parish, consisting of 18 townlands.
Three of these townlands are named "Carnmoney", "Carnmoney Glebe" and "Carnmoney Bog".
It is also the name of the village, which sat mainly within the townland of Ballyduff!
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References:
http://thecore.com/seanruad/
[Enter "Carnmoney" in to the Civil Parish field within the first box.
This will return a list of all the townlands.]
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
[Enter "Carnmoney" in to the Place Name field, and select County Antrim.
Open the big map viewer for the "village".
Zoom in a few times (double left click).
Move map around using the "sticky hand" tool.
Zoom out as necessary (double right click).
Use the slider to switch between the modern day map and the 1840s OSI map.]
Civil Parish name is in big capital letters.
Townland names are in small capital letters.
Village names are in mixed case smaller font.
Addresses used in correspondence or legal documents are usually the townland names.
Capt. Jock
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That is a great tool, Capt. Jock. I much enjoyed seeing the lay of the land. I couldn't find Dunanney even though it was listed on the index. Must be blind. Sarah Elizabeth Smyth nee Boyd lived there in 1884 when her sister Margaret died in Jordanstown.
Peggy
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Dunanney townland sits between Carnmoney townland and White House townland.
So, roughly SE of Carnmoney village.
Use the Place Name approach to focus in on its inhabitants & location.
Here is an overall sketch map to help orient you:
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Thanks ever so much. All the places mentioned are in the same vicinity.
Peggy
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Sarah Elizabeth Boyd and Margaret Boyd were the daughters of Richard Dawson Boyd and his wife Mary Chisholm/Chism.
They also had children Richard Dawson (Jnr) and Mary Jane who you mentioned but there was also a William Chism (born 2 March 1851, baptised Carnmoney Presbyterian 6 April same year) and James Boyd (born 13 June 1848).
Hope that helps.
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Fantastic! I was pretty sure that Mary Chisholm was the wife of Richard Dawson Boyd, Sr. and you have confirmed it. I had also learned after my post about James although I only had the year of birth not the exact date. Thank you. This James went to New Zealand, I think. Is that correct? William was a new sibling to me.
Do you know the parents of Richard Dawson Boyd, Sr. who I think I found on familysearch as being born 1819 and died Aug 18, 1896? I have that Richard Dawson Boyd, Jr. was born 1853 and died between July and Sept 1886 which is possibly why his daughter Sarah administered Sr.'s estate.
Thanks
Peggy
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Hi again. Forgot to mention that I had Mary Jane Boyd down as a sibling. Should it have been Mary Jasne or is Jasne her married name?
Peggy
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Hi ...the Mary 'Jasne' Boyd was a typo, sorry, now corrected!
I got the information on James and William from the Carnmoney Presbyterian Church baptisms that can be found on line here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=521542.45
If you check out the pages in the above thread you will see there is a gap in information between 1823 and 1832. In 1823 you will see a Mary Chism born 10 April of that year to a William and Margaret. That may be the Mary in question. Perhaps Richard Dawson Boyd's parents did not live in the area then or his birth may fall into the gap in the online records.
Glad you managed to find out about James independently, its nice when you find multiple sources that coincide. The New Zealand angle will give you a whole new line of research to pursue.
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Did you mean Richard Dawson Boyd Sr's parents may not live in the area, when you said maybe James Dawson Boyd's parents did not live in the area?
Peggy
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Yes Peggy, that's twice you've caught me out in typos, must be tired tonight! Apologies, now corrected.
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I have interest in Samuel Giffin McIlwaine and Margaret Boyd if anyone could help. O believe they may have had a son called Samuel. (Maybe out of wedlock) had anyone came across this?
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I have interest in Samuel Giffin McIlwaine and Margaret Boyd if anyone could help. O believe they may have had a son called Samuel. (Maybe out of wedlock) had anyone came across this?
Lots more information now online.
Samuel Giffin McIlwaine (c1844-29 Feb.1884 Larne) m.(22 Aug.1867 Whiteabbey Presbyterian Church) Margaret Boyd (c1845-4 Nov.1884 Jordanstown)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1867/11501/8229121.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06340/4818182.pdf
Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Samuel Giffen M'Ilwaine late of Glynn View Villas Larne County Antrim Retired Farmer who died 29 February 1884 at same place were granted at Belfast to Margaret M'Ilwaine of Glynn View Villas Larne the Widow.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06309/4809117a.pdf
The Will of Margaret M'Ilwaine late of Jordanstown County Antrim Widow who died 4 November 1884 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Smyth of Dunaney Richard Dawson Boyd (Junior) of Cloughfern and Hugh Smyth of Dunaney all in said County Farmers the Executors.
Checked GRONI for births 1867 until 1876 but no children of Samuel & Margaret. If child born before 1867 marriage then should be indexed under mother's surname.
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Thanks, aghadowey. I am back to working on this family.
Peggy
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I have been researching my ancestors in the Carnmoney area Co. Antrim, more specifically the Moore and Smyth families. For those who might be interests, I have found some good resources online. Public Records Office of Northern Ireland. PRONI has a good search facility. Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) | nidirect
There is also a large online photo collection of county Antrim Families, taken in the late 19th early 20th century, available online at https://collections.nationalmuseumsni.org/
The photographer was William Fee Mckinney of Sentry Hill Northern Ireland. His photographs are listed under the Dundee collection. You will find photos of the Boyd McIlwaine and Giffin ancestors here.
Another source I used was genealogy noted recorded by William available at
https://www.irishantiquarianbook.com/
The Book Sentry Hill by Brian Walk is also a rich source of information. I hope this is useful.