RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Selina on Tuesday 04 December 12 15:04 GMT (UK)
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A friend has told me that she fairly recently read in a familily history magazine (she can't recall which as she reads several), that one of the genealogy sites is preparing the 1939 National Register to put online. She can't remember which site!
Has anyone else read about this and knows a bit more please?
Selina
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Hi
Could it be this:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/new-fee-paying-access-1939-national-register-announced
brevitas
PS - According to the NHS website, only info on deceased will be made available:
http://www.ic.nhs.uk/services/1939-register-service
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Hi
Could it be this:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/new-fee-paying-access-1939-national-register-announced
That extract is dated 16 Feb 2010, from when access to the data, for deceased people has been available at a cost of £42.
Stan
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Hi
Could it be this:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/new-fee-paying-access-1939-national-register-announced
That extract is dated 16 Feb 2010, from when access to the data, for deceased people has been available at a cost of £42.
Stan
I'm not sure what you're implying, Stan :-\
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I only mean that that link cannot be referring to a recent announcement in a family history magazine that one of the genealogy sites is preparing the 1939 National Register to put online.
Stan
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I gathered that my friend had read about this within the last month but I do wonder if the article/whatever was referring to something else as would have thought someone would have posted about it on RootsChat already if it was the 1939.
I did get two records during the initial 'free' period before they started charging £42 which were very helpful.
It would be a really useful source of information if it does get online so will keep hoping!
Selina
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See this
http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/2014/new-project-to-release-the-1939-register-for-the-first-time-online/ (http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/2014/new-project-to-release-the-1939-register-for-the-first-time-online/)
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Interesting that FindMyPast can put a 1939 list on line, but we can't view 1921 census yet.
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Thanks stonechat. Great news!
Selina
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It has been confirmed today that the 1939 National Register is to be made available online in about two years time.
Public access to the National Register was another moderate success I had after the 1911 census a few years ago. It was clouded by the costs involved to get information.
Soon it will be available online.
For further details see
http://e.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/q/1mi1znLpjnOCrxd7P5f6/wv
Cheers
Guy
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Guy - There's already a topic on this see below, where I posted a comment that it's odd that we can see the 1939 register as soon as FindMyPast has it on their site, yet we can't see the 1921 census for another 7 years.
www.rootschat.com/links/0yo6/
Lizzie
Topics merged.
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Guy - There's already a topic on this see below, where I posted a comment that it's odd that we can see the 1939 register as soon as FindMyPast has it on their site, yet we can't see the 1921 census for another 7 years.
www.rootschat.com/links/0yo6/
Lizzie
Topics merged.
Its not odd at all, they are covered by different legislation as has been mentioned a few times before.
As an aside I have all my records from the 1939 registration and if they are in any way typical then the mistranscriptions will be numerous - all mine contained them, and that is after first saying they didn't exist.
Anyway good luck to everyone when they are available
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BBC News story this morning:
Plugging genealogy's 30-year gap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120)
"Now individual returns in England and Wales from the register are being digitised and are expected to be released next month."
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Guy - There's already a topic on this see below, where I posted a comment that it's odd that we can see the 1939 register as soon as FindMyPast has it on their site, yet we can't see the 1921 census for another 7 years.
www.rootschat.com/links/0yo6/
Lizzie
Topics merged.
I started fighting for the release of the 1921 census (note the release because under current legislation no census taken under the Census Act 1920 (as amemded) can ever be released) a while ago but there was little interest by genealogists to join in so I didn't bother to carry on.
Many of these thing I can take action myself but this was one of those instances when only mass interest would cause change.
The current legislation needs to be changed to allow early access (either that or it is legal to release it today) but only if enough people want the change, it seems few do.
Cheers
Guy
PS if anyone wants to see the type of information available from the 1939 National Registration there is a transcription on the following link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eoz/
In this instance Stella A Guy was the wife of John P Guy
Guy
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BBC News story this morning:
Plugging genealogy's 30-year gap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120)
"Now individual returns in England and Wales from the register are being digitised and are expected to be released next month."
Just confirmed by email from FindMyPast that the release date will be Monday 2 November.
Pricing:
"Records will be available to purchase for £6.95 per household or £24.95 for our 5 household bundle (£4.99 per household).
As a valued subscriber, we will be sending an exclusive code to you soon which will entitle you to 25% off our 5 household bundle."
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Think there will be a sub which covers it?
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Think there will be a sub which covers it?
I doubt it - otherwise I would have expected them to include an upgrade option in the email.
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The FAQs give a reason why it is not part of the subscription
"Can I unlock a 1939 Register household with my subscription?
Answer:
Can I unlock a 1939 Register household with my subscription?
The 1939 Register is no ordinary record set, and bringing you the most significant family history release of the decade has taken a team of hundreds over a year.
Our accuracy on this record set is over 98.5% of readable records, meaning a lengthy quality assurance process, and we have developed new methods of automatically closing the records of those people who are living and younger than 100 years and one day.
In addition, unlocking a household in the 1939 Register doesn’t just grant you access to a record and image. In this, our richest record set ever, when you unlock a household you will also unlock rich, exclusive content giving you an insight into the world of 1939.
Maps will demonstrate how local areas have changed, never-before-online photos related to the individual’s life will add context to their record, we’ll use the numbers in the Register to show a breakdown of the local area, and local and national newspapers will bring 1939 to life like never before.
It is because of the above, and because the 1939 Register is such a special record set that we’re unable to include the 1939 Register in our users’ subscriptions. We have worked to ensure that the cost of unlocking a household in the Register is the best possible value to our users, and we hope that everyone, both existing users and those new to Findmypast, make new and fascinating discoveries in the 1939 Register, the only surviving record of the entire civil population of England and Wales between 1921 and 1951."
Cheers
Guy
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Think there will be a sub which covers it?
I doubt it - otherwise I would have expected them to include an upgrade option in the email.
Its the same situation as when the 1911 Census was released, although I think then it was only 30 credits (ie half the number for this) to view an original record and 10 credits for a transcript. After a while they introduced subscriptions. Its quite possible some time in the future this will happen. Mind you with them charging that much, it would be interesting to see how much they would charge for a subscription, I think originally it was an extra £50 for the 1911 before they eventually integrated it inyo the normal subscriptions and reduced the prices further. :-\
Edit - there's another thread discussing this - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730024.msg5791829#msg5791829
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Very similar to the 1911, their exclusive contract is similar too, expect it to be exclusive to FindMyPast for 5 years before being released to other online sites.
Possibly at that time it will be included as part of the subscription service
It will not be available as part of libraries subscriptions but people will be able to access it from libraries and pay using credits.
In a similar way the LDS Family History Centers will not have free access to it
Cheers
Guy
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Very similar to the 1911, their exclusive contract is similar too, expect it to be exclusive to FindMyPast for 5 years before being released to other online sites.
Possibly at that time it will be included as part of the subscription service
I suspect the timing on any price reduction and/or subscriptions is more likely to be reflected in how much of an uptake they get at the current prices. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if they have to drop the prices at some time in the not too distant future but we shall see. In the case of the 1911 Census, they introduced subscriptions well ahead of the data being available to other data providers not at the point it was acquired by others.
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It is probably hidden somewhere in one of the threads - but what was the date that this was taken? My parents married a few days after war was declared, will they be together in their new home or still at home with parents?
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BBC News story this morning:
Plugging genealogy's 30-year gap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34570120)
"Now individual returns in England and Wales from the register are being digitised and are expected to be released next month."
Just confirmed by email from FindMyPast that the release date will be Monday 2 November.
Pricing:
"Records will be available to purchase for £6.95 per household or £24.95 for our 5 household bundle (£4.99 per household).
As a valued subscriber, we will be sending an exclusive code to you soon which will entitle you to 25% off our 5 household bundle."
Well I am only getting 10% off as a FindMyPast subscriber which is the same as the second email I got from the 1939 Register site news sign up.
I'll wait until I've been subscribed to FindMyPast for longer to see if I can get 25% off before I even think about it.
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Answered my own question on the date by googling. It was taken 29th September.
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Hello -
I have received two e-mails from FindMyPast, one staing that there will be a 10% reduction and the other, from FindMyPast.ie (I previously had two separate subscriptions, but changed them to a world subscription) stating that the reduction would be 25%.
craggagh.
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Ive had an email from FindMyPast saying that 1939 register is being released at a massive cost to the public though :o :o £6.95 per household or £24.99 per 5 households - shocking it wouldnt of cost our ancestors that a year to live in their homes ::)
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Disgusting, one very disappointed 'ex'-customer... >:(
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There are threads about it here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=626501.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730024.0
Moderator comment: topic locked - other topics already begun........
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Ive had an email from FindMyPast saying that 1939 register is being released at a massive cost to the public though :o :o £6.95 per household or £24.99 per 5 households - shocking it wouldnt of cost our ancestors that a year to live in their homes ::)
Originally you could ask for information about a family in the 1939 register at a cost of over £40, which I paid as I needed some information that I couldn't get any other way and even then I had to provide the names of the people, their address (although I only knew the town) and the dates of their deaths, otherwise you couldn't receive any info. So £6.95 per household seems quite reasonable to me.
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The records should have been offered free to an organization that would have made them available free of charge to everyone. There are some around.
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The records should have been offered free to an organization that would have made them available free of charge to everyone. There are some around.
Obviously none were interested, or rather they could not meet the terms of the tender in reality a commercial partner was wanted by the NA
The 1939 National Registration was put out to tender on 5 August 2013.
Some of the terms -
"The National Archives seeks to let a Service Concession contract for the 1939 Register to a commercial licensee. The Concessionaire will, at their cost, create official digital images and transcription of the 1939 Register information for England and Wales to specific technical standards and with line entry redaction in return for the grant of the right to provide of an online serviceat the Concessionaire’s commercial risk and subject to the payment to The National Archives of a royalty return. In more detail, the Concessionaire will
1) Provide a commercial service online which will provide public access to the digital images and associated metadata.
2) Create ‘official digital images’ for the 1939 Register which will be accessioned by The National Archives instead of the paper original."
Make no mistake this was a very expensive project for company to undertake.
The tender forms are online take a look for yourself
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How much did the licence cost?
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So how long do FindMyPast hold the exclusive rights, it must be long enough to make it worth their while?
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Warning. I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere - too bogged-down in the changing references to notice, but I just accidentally repurchased a household record. Same household but listed under two different surnames!
Since you can no longer check address before selecting, this is very easy to do!
Also went for largest bundle as I knew I had a good few to look for, and suspect that the discount was not applied to that.
This could be a very expensive exercise!
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I would ask for a refund on the doubling up!!!
If you can't check addresses and have very common surnames like mine, it's not even worth bothering!!
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Just click on My Records in blue at the top of the page and you will be able to open the image time and again for no extra charge.
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Hi Carol,
that wasn't the problem. I went in through a different search (different family name) and only realised I had paid for the same page twice when I spotted it on the My Records list.
All the changes of file names and non-disclosing of addresses means that it's not possible to recognise that this is the same file that you are opening until after you look at it.
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I thought that they should not be able to charge you twice
Surely you can get a refund?
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Hi Carol,
that wasn't the problem. I went in through a different search (different family name) and only realised I had paid for the same page twice when I spotted it on the My Records list.
All the changes of file names and non-disclosing of addresses means that it's not possible to recognise that this is the same file that you are opening until after you look at it.
Surely you read through the entire image when you first download it. I went through mine and noted the other people on the image for future reference. Some of the people on an image actually live in adjoining roads, so it pays to check everyone, not just the person you originally looked for.
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I thought that I had done this but as the page references were changing by the day, while I was doing that, I had recorded the two families as different finds and when it was not obviously available under the second name, assumed that it was one that I hadn't yet opened/purchased, when I got my credits.
(was trying to check how many credits I would need and then do the purchases, but have decided that value for money is not good, so probably won't but any more credits)
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I looked for my gran and found she was listed and shown as an ARP Warden, which I knew anyway. Also listed are 2 of her daughters (one my dad's twin) and the husband of her eldest daughter. There are 2 closed records. I assume one is my dad's youngest sister who wasn't born until 1917, less than 100 years ago, but I don't know who the other one would be unless it was the girlfriend of my dad's youngest brother. He was born in 1913 so should be on the list somewhere.
What's interesting is that my dad's twin sister is shown as single, but although she didn't marry until 16 October 1940, the ditto line - showing she had the same surname as her mother - has been overwritten with her married name. ??? I found the girlfriend of my dad's eldest brother, and like my dad's twin sister her single name has been crossed out and her married name written over it, even though she didn't marry until sometime in 1940. I can't find my dad's two brothers anywhere, even just searching on their surnames, which is somewhat curious. As the eldest was a musician, it's possible he was away, I know he was in Scotland late 1940/41 playing at a Glasgow theatre, but I thought the other brother was a factory worker.
I found my parents and my gran at the address where I also lived once I was born!! but, strangely, there is another person on the list with a closed record. I have no idea who this might be, I don't remember my mother ever saying that someone else lived with them before I was born, and not knowing who it is I can't ask for the record to be unlocked. Can anyone suggest how else I might find out who was at the address with my gran and parents.
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Don't really think you can find out who was there. The register was updated with deaths and married names (of women) up to 1991,
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I can't think of anyone who would know who was living with my gran and parents. My gran, my parents and all my parents' siblings are dead now. I do have some older cousins, but they were only young children in 1939, so wouldn't remember. I'll just have to wait until whoever it was turns 100 or a death is found for them, I'm assuming it was an adult, there's no reason for it to have been a child. I assume in time all the records will be "unlocked", hopefully before I get too old to search them again.
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There's an extra closed person with my grandparents. My father was too younger to remember and his elder brother isn't aware of anyone that it could be and he would have just about been old enough to remember, so will have to wait until that person is opened. I'm just wondering if perhaps they've wrongly attributed someone from another household when redacting out anyone that is closed, but I am unwilling to pay to view the entry at present to see if that could be a possibility as I know all the details and address for them. :-\
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If the people lived in a relatively safe part of the country could they have taken in an evacuee as children were evacuated from large towns and cities early in September?
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I gather that evacuation had started earlier in September.
In my case they were living in Honour Oak Park in South London so not considered safe as my father, his brother and mother were at one point all evacuated to Devon before they decided to return.
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My gran and parents wouldn't have taken an evacuee as my mum had a shop and the accommodation was behind and above the shop, so it wouldn't have been suitable for a strange child. Obviously, once I was born, and later my brother, we lived there but growing up there we got used to the set up.
The redacted name is definitely at the same address as my parents, as the address below gives the name of the two adults who lived next door to us, plus they also had 2 redacted names, but from memory that is correct, it was a butcher and his wife and they had 2 sons, who by the time I was old enough to realise were almost adults, but in 1939 would have been children. As the page shows quite a few names, it has reminded me of the names of the shopkeepers around our address, some of which I had already remembered and some which were good reminders for me.
Lizzie
ps. I think you have to know who the redacted person is to get it unlocked. When I checked for the two redacted people living with my other gran, I had to give names, dob and attach a copy of a death cert to prove they had died, as if alive they would both have been under 100 - just. I haven't bothered because I can guess who they were.
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That is the problem isn't it, if you don't know who the redacted people are, you can't get the records opened! It would be useful if they told you when the records would be opened, eg closed until 2038, then at least you'd know it was a child.
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Yes, and it's particularly odd because my mum never said anyone else had lived with them and she would have done as she was always talking about friends and relatives - some very distant - and she never mentioned anyone living with my gran and my parents. I wonder if it was just a visitor - maybe her brother who was single at the time and born in 1919, he died in 1986 so after the cut off date at the moment. Hopefully more records will be redacted as soon as they realise the people are deceased.
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Don't think anyone will just realise
It's only the likes of you and I who get these opened by sending in death certs.
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stonechat - the problem is if you don't know who the redacted person is, you can't send in a death certificate. In the case of the 2 redacted living with my paternal gran I can make a good guess as to who they are, but the 1 living my with maternal gran and my parents, I have no idea. They never said anyone used to live with them, so all I can think is that it was a visitor.
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That is the problem isn't it, if you don't know who the redacted people are, you can't get the records opened! It would be useful if they told you when the records would be opened, eg closed until 2038, then at least you'd know it was a child.
It would also be illegal as there is then the possibility you could identify the redacted person.
Cheers
Guy
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Are they going to redact the entries as and when the person would be 100? If not, we will never find out who the people living with our parents were. If they wait until 2039, I doubt I'll be alive, well I might be I suppose, but I'd be 98. ::)
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I wondered how often they will revisit the register to redact names,they can't be doing them every day can they? Or will it be a weekly or monthly thing?
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There's an extra closed person with my grandparents. My father was too younger to remember and his elder brother isn't aware of anyone that it could be and he would have just about been old enough to remember, so will have to wait until that person is opened. I'm just wondering if perhaps they've wrongly attributed someone from another household when redacting out anyone that is closed, but I am unwilling to pay to view the entry at present to see if that could be a possibility as I know all the details and address for them. :-\
Could the mystery person have been a military person billeted with them?
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Not many military people billeted into Hale, Cheshire in 1939, so I doubt it was a member of the military, in fact my dad's occupation is shown as a restaurant waiter - which is correct - rather than soldier which it would have done once he was recruited, I think at the time of the 1939 registration, it would have been a bit early for military personnel to be billeted anywhere. I do remember American GIs at the drill hall which was a few yards away from where I lived but that was around 1943/4.
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I think in my grandparents case its unlikely to be a billeted soldier, not least because my uncle, who was 6 at the time, doesn't remember anything and I would have thought he would at the age. I know I can remember some things about a relatively memorable event when I was that age. From what has been said about recording all those at the address on that day as with the census, rather than at their normal place of residence as I originally though, I suspect it was probably a visitor and someone whose presence wouldn't have been out of the ordinary to have made a lasting impression on my uncle. Mind you its always possible its my grandmother's brother who doesn't show up anywhere and someone's interpreted his year of birth as 1916 instead of 1906. He did join up but we don't know when so could have been with them. Only time will tell.
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Billetted soldiers were not included in the 1939 Register. The only active service personnel who were required to be enumerated were those who were at home on leave. Conscription did not begin until later, since one of the purposes of the register was to create an accurate list for this purpose. So the people already in the forces were regulars, volunteers, and reserves who had been called up.
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Billetted soldiers were not included in the 1939 Register. The only active service personnel who were required to be enumerated were those who were at home on leave. Conscription did not begin until later, since one of the purposes of the register was to create an accurate list for this purpose. So the people already in the forces were regulars, volunteers, and reserves who had been called up.
I have reason to believe that some men were asked to volunteer for certain specialist jobs in several different corps. They may have worked as civilians doing various jobs in support of the Armed Forces, It was envisaged that they would be needed to be sent overseas, so they were asked to volunteer to do the jobs which they had done as civilians, but to be able to be sent overseas to perform those duties in Uniform.
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One of the reasons I am loathe to unlock any of my family's 1939 Register records is because I've found a number of people who died before 1991 but are still closed for reasons unknown to me. In one case, a cousin of my mother's died in 1946 as a young man and is still closed.
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One of the reasons I am loathe to unlock any of my family's 1939 Register records is because I've found a number of people who died before 1991 but are still closed for reasons unknown to me. In one case, a cousin of my mother's died in 1946 as a young man and is still closed.
I don't think there is anything sinister about deaths before 1991 still being closed, it would likely be that the NHS were not advised or the death wasn't recorded in the Register. It would also depend upon where they died, for example if it was overseas then it wouldn't be recorded.
Andy
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I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister behind it, simply that it makes me question the value of the purchase.
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I've found quite a few people whose deaths are in the index (pre-1991) but are still redacted... I know some people have suggested that deaths in hospital are less likely to have been recorded on the register. Hopefully Findmypast can cross-reference the 1939 register with the death index so more records can be revealed. I don't know if this is in the pipeline, but it would be nice!
For now, I'm disinclined to pay for records where some people are closed... it feels like I'm missing out on something! I'll stick to the households where none are redacted. And there are plenty of them to keep me busy for now!
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Billetted soldiers were not included in the 1939 Register. The only active service personnel who were required to be enumerated were those who were at home on leave. Conscription did not begin until later, since one of the purposes of the register was to create an accurate list for this purpose. So the people already in the forces were regulars, volunteers, and reserves who had been called up.
I think there may be other categories which you have not envisaged.
Some people doing specialist jobs, such as Research and Development, may have been invited to be members of new teams being set up.