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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mr pinkwhistle on Tuesday 04 December 12 15:02 GMT (UK)
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I am in a bit of a quandry and I wondered if anyone else could help?I am researching the Chaloner(Holt,Denbighshire,Wales) tree in the 1700s and doing really well but I came across a marriage for a John Chaloner(born 1761 in holt,Denbighshire to Charles and Mary) in 1774 to a Mary Chaloner in Holt,Denbighshire.At first I thought no way but the witness on the marriage record is a James Tomlinson and his sister Penelope was John Chaloners sister in law.Then when I checked the burials in Holt John Chaloner was indeed born in 1761 and Mary 1757.So the baptisms,Marriage and Burials all tally.They were not of full age as I have checked this on the marriage also but there are no other clues.What were the laws on marriage at this time and could they have married so early or am I wrong?I would love to hear from anybody who has any advice or ideas or information on the age you could marry at this point.Thank you.
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Hi
I think it was 12 for a girl and 13 for a boy, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, these are baptist records and they may have been born earlier
Margp
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Hi
Just found this
1763 – Minimum age for marriage set at 16, (earlier only with a Licence from the Bishop, previously the Church accepted marriage of girls of 12 and boys of 14). Those under 21 still needed the consent of parents. On marriage records individuals that are over 21 often have their age listed as “full age” rather than an exact year.
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Thank you for that.That clarifies it a bit more but I must say I find it odd as the burial records of this John and Mary chaloner tie in with their date of birth.Oh well,always a bit of a minefield when you are going back that far.Thank you.
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See thread: Age of consent -help please. Up to 1929 tne legal ages were 12 for a girl and 14 for a boy. Since then it has been 16 for both sexes. The age does however vary throughout Europe. I believe it is 15 for a girl in France, and 14 in Italy, which can and does lead to problems.
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Mary was 17 at the time of her marriage, so that's not unreasonable, but 13 for John seems too young. Although the law allowed marriage from that age, it very rarely happened other than for royalty etc. There are 2 possibilities - that John was actually older than a newborn when he was christened and when he was buried, someone calculated his age from his baptismal record. Or there was another John Challoner, perhaps a cousin, who married Mary and was christened elsewhere and whose burial hasn't been identified yet. In other words, how sure are you that the John that was buried is the same John who was married to Mary?
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Is the age of consent different to the age that a marriage can take place?
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It is a bit of a conundrum,I am not sure I will ever solve it because it is so long ago and records are not great but I found it intriguing that James Tomlinson was a witness at the marriage and his sister Penelope married Peter Chaloner who was Johns brother.Perhaps I am looking for something that really isnt there?
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Is the age of consent different to the age that a marriage can take place?
If you mean the age of consent to sexual intercourse, yes it is.
Stan
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Hi
Just found this
1763 – Minimum age for marriage set at 16, (earlier only with a Licence from the Bishop, previously the Church accepted marriage of girls of 12 and boys of 14). Those under 21 still needed the consent of parents. On marriage records individuals that are over 21 often have their age listed as “full age” rather than an exact year.
From time immemorial the age for matrimonial consent was fixed at 7 years, but puberty was accepted as the age for consummation of the marriage, which was 12 for girls and 14 for boys.
Canon 100 of 1603 forbade, but did not invalidate marriage of persons under 21, except with parental consent.
The legal age for marriage from 29 September 1653 was fixed at 16 for a man and 14 for a woman. In 1660 the pre-interregnum laws were reinstated and the legal ages of marriage reverted to 14 for the groom and 12 for the bride.
Lord Hardwicke's 1753 Marriage Act, made it illegal for those in England under the age of 21 to get married without the consent of their parents or guardians. The consent requirement was repealed and replaced in July 1822, and an act in July1823 restored the pre-1753 rule of Canon 100.
In effect, therefore, from 1823 the age at which a couple could undergo a valid marriage, even without parental consent, reverted to 14 for boys and 12 for girls; although some marriages of younger children still took place.
The 1929 Age of Marriage Act made all marriages carried out from 10 May 1929, void if either partner was under the age of 16.
The legal age for marriage remained at 14 for boys and 12 for girls in the Republic of Ireland, until 1st January 1975, when it was raised to 16.
Stan
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Thank You!
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Thank you!
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Is the age of consent different to the age that a marriage can take place?
If you mean the age of consent to sexual intercourse, yes it is.
Stan
The age was first set at 12 in 1275 and then raised to 13 in the 1875 Offences against the Person Act. The Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885, raised the age to 16.
See http://www.channel4.com/programmes/victorians-uncovered/articles/the-criminal-law-amendment-act-1885
Stan
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Is the age of consent different to the age that a marriage can take place?
If you mean the age of consent to sexual intercourse, yes it is.
Stan
The age was first set at 12 in 1275 and then raised to 13 in the 1875 Offences against the Person Act. The Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885, raised the age to 16.
See http://www.channel4.com/programmes/victorians-uncovered/articles/the-criminal-law-amendment-act-1885
Stan
No doubt caused problems to young married couples!!
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Very interesting reading this about the age for marriage and sexual consent.
I remember I was 20 in the 1960's I went to join the local Library in Leeds.
I went home crying my eyes out when the Librarian told me I needed
my parents permission to join and get a Library book out. :o
Needless to say I didnt go back.
Thank goodness things have now changed.
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James Tomlinson was the Parish Clerk in Holt during this period and as a result his name is on all entries in the registers. This may perhaps explain why his name appears on this marriage entry.
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Hi
Just found this
1763 – Minimum age for marriage set at 16, (earlier only with a Licence from the Bishop, previously the Church accepted marriage of girls of 12 and boys of 14). Those under 21 still needed the consent of parents. On marriage records individuals that are over 21 often have their age listed as “full age” rather than an exact year.
The date is wrong it was the 1753 Marriage Act (Hardwicke's Act) that set the age of marriage to 16, with consent of parents if under 21, this parental consent requirement was repealed and replaced in 1823. The 1823 Acts also reverted the age of marriage to 14 for boys and 12 for girls.
Caution must be used when reading "age of consent" in ecclesiastical law it often refers to age to consent to marriage whilst in civil law it often means age to consent to sexual intercourse.
Cheers
Guy
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Very interesting reading this about the age for marriage and sexual consent.
I remember I was 20 in the 1960's I went to join the local Library in Leeds.
I went home crying my eyes out when the Librarian told me I needed
my parents permission to join and get a Library book out. :o
Needless to say I didnt go back.
Thank goodness things have now changed.
My grand daughter was born in August 2007. One of the first things her mother did was to registert her at the local branch library. She was issued !! with her first library book a few weeks later and is still a member!!