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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Bozzle10 on Sunday 02 December 12 11:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Sunday 02 December 12 11:42 GMT (UK)
Hi
I am looking for the birth of Leonard Cahill Cheetham born around 1841 at Bowenfels NSW he is not on the NSW BDM site .
His death certificate states his father is James Cheetham and mother is Elizabeth Ann Cahill.
I have not found any record of his birth and wondering where else to look.
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Robert Coble on Sunday 02 December 12 12:23 GMT (UK)
Here is two marriages for Leonard  Cheetham


Leonard J Cheetham
    Birth 1796 in Wigan, Lancashire, England
    Death November 1846 in Australia

V18403407 74A/1840  Leonard Cheetham & Anne Cahill (JB)   
V1840711 75/1840 Leonard Cheetham & Anne Cahill (JB)    

JB = Presbyterian =  Sydney, St Andrew's Scots Church


V184624 31C/1846    Leonard J Cheetham & Elizabeth Friend (MS)

MS = Church of England = Sydney, Holy Trinity (Garrison Church)

Death: you might fine that James is Leonard J Cheetham  that married as above there
5930/1876  Leonard C Cheetham    father's name:   James, mother's name: Ann,registered in Dubbo

    

Leonard Cahill Cheetham
    Birth Nov 1840 in Bowenfels, New South Wales, Australia
    Death 6 June 1876 in Dubbo, New South Wales, Australia

Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 02 December 12 13:37 GMT (UK)
As civil registration did not commence until 1856 you will be looking for a baptism/christening not a birth.  If there was no baptism then there will be no record.  If you want to check that the baptism has not been missed in the indexing, the early church registers are available to view at many libraries on microfilm. 

As the parents' marriage was Presbyterian perhaps you would start with the Presbyterian baptism registers:

Presbyterian Baptisms
1834 - 1844
Volume 47
Microfilm Reel 5017
+ 27- end (see Note 10)

Note 10:  There are over 5000 baptismal entries in Vol. 47.  The volume is in poor physical condition thus making many of the entries difficult both to locate and to read. There appears to be no register entries Nos. 1-26 - the Registry's entry numbers commencing at No. 27.

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 02 December 12 13:54 GMT (UK)
I seem to remember that there was some doubt about whether Leonard or James was the father, and whether the brothers were masquerading as each other.

Previous post to save duplication:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572618.0.html

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Sunday 02 December 12 23:44 GMT (UK)
Yes Dundee that is correct I'm still trying to work out who is who -
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Sunday 02 December 12 23:46 GMT (UK)
Hey Robertcoble

can you please tell me where you got the photo from I havent been able to locate it in the pass.
Thanks
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Robert Coble on Monday 03 December 12 01:18 GMT (UK)
from Ancestry there
as I have the name Cheetham/Cheatham in my tree there
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Monday 03 December 12 01:33 GMT (UK)
thanks Robert what a awesome photo - its nice to see what they looked like
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Robert Coble on Monday 03 December 12 02:14 GMT (UK)
Yes it dose there.
The Cheetham I'm doing where from  Dubbo way as well Thomas Joseph Cheetham/Cheatham, His father was a Leonard Cheetham and Elizabeth Ann
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: muss on Monday 03 December 12 08:42 GMT (UK)
Hi

Nice picture , I can see the family likeness 



Muss
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Saturday 22 December 12 09:39 GMT (UK)
from Ancestry there
as I have the name Cheetham/Cheatham in my tree there
Hi Robert do you have recorded on your Cheetham/Cheatham where the photo came from? was it passed down to you from someone?
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Saturday 22 December 12 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hi

Nice picture , I can see the family likeness 



Muss
Hey Muss yes the likeness is very scarey ..  :D
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Robert Coble on Saturday 22 December 12 11:49 GMT (UK)
Hi

Nice picture , I can see the family likeness 



Muss
Hey Muss yes the likeness is very scarey ..  :D

got from ancestry
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: muss on Saturday 22 December 12 21:02 GMT (UK)
Hi
This has to be checked, the entry may be on film in Newcastle.
Leonard SHEEHAN born 1840 father James mother Anne.
I have not found any more births to the parents.

Merry Christmas 
Muss
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Sunday 23 December 12 06:45 GMT (UK)
Hi
This has to be checked, the entry may be on film in Newcastle.
Leonard SHEEHAN born 1840 father James mother Anne.
I have not found any more births to the parents.

Merry Christmas 
Muss
thanks Muss
I have already seen this entry and had applied for the certificate/transcript - I ruled this out due to the mothers maiden name listed was Kiely/ Riely  - my Anne was CAHILL his religion was noted as Roman Catholic too.
May you have a Merry Christmas too :)
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Lshah on Thursday 08 December 16 02:07 GMT (UK)
James and Leonard cheetham were tried as young boys at Lancaster castle, England. They were sentenced to hang for stealing sheep but we're transported to NSW, Australia where they were servants before moving further out and very successfully reared sheep for the rest of their lives. Hope this helps ☺
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: SRoss82 on Thursday 08 December 16 02:08 GMT (UK)


Nice picture , I can see the family likeness 



Muss
Hey Muss yes the likeness is very scarey ..  :D
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: SRoss82 on Thursday 08 December 16 02:09 GMT (UK)
 picture , I can see the family likeness 



Muss
Hey Muss yes the likeness is very scarey ..
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Thursday 08 December 16 02:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Lshah

I knew they were trialled in England for sheep stealing, although did not know that they were sentenced to be hang. Do you have more details about the boys and their trial?
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: judb on Thursday 08 December 16 06:43 GMT (UK)
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, England Lancashire 1817

Leonard CHEETHAM was convicted at the Summer Assizes, Lancaster in 1817 of sheep stealing.  He was sentenced to death which sentence, as has already been said, was commuted to transportation.  It was more common in those days for the death sentence to be commuted as it is in this case.

(During 1800-1834 there were nearly 30,000 death sentences in UK but about 27000 were reprieved - over 91 %
http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/reprieve.html)

UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books, 1802-1849
Leonard Cheetham,    23
Estimated birth year:   abt 1794
Date Received:   22 Nov 1817
Ship:   Retribution, moored at Woolwich
Convicted:   27 Aug 1817, at Lancaster

Australian Convict Transportation Registers
Leonard Cheetham, ship: Tottenham
Convicted Date:   27 Aug 1817
Voyage Date:   Jan 1818, arrival October 1818

Received Conditional Pardon
New South Wales, Australia, Convict Registers of Conditional and Absolute Pardons

Leonard Cheetham, 40
Origin Place:   Lancashire, England
Pardon Date:   19 May 1836
Vessel Name:   Tottenham
Record Type:   Conditional

Judith





Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Thursday 08 December 16 11:15 GMT (UK)
Thank You Judb,
I have Leonard's Convict records in Australia and the shipping details but have been missing the bits regarding his trial , so thank you for this.

I Know that he was married in NSW sydney to one Anne Cahill and they had two children but I have never found the birth details for these children. the one child I do know is Leonard Cahill Cheetham.

Leonard had a brother James Cheetham who came out in 1818 on the Isabella from memory

there is a twist to these brother that I need to unravel. So I am desperately looking for births in england - Parents Robert Cheetham and Dorothy Parker Carter
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Lshah on Thursday 08 December 16 16:04 GMT (UK)
Hi
Both James and Leonard were transported but separately.  I think they were very young about 7.  Wendy Robinson, a retired prosecutor from Australia may be able to help - she is a relative to the boys.   :)
Title: Re: Leonard Cahill CHEETHAM birth
Post by: Bozzle10 on Thursday 08 December 16 19:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Lshah

thank you for the reply, I have the shipping indent and its lists the age of 24 for Leonard Cheetham. the name Wendy Robinson rings a bell, I think I had been in contact with her but only through email and only a couple of correspondence. These boys are also a direct line for us. Do you have any contact details for Wendy or I am  happy for you to pass my email onto her, Which I will send privately.

thank you for your help, do you have any connection with this family.