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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: cbcarolyn on Saturday 01 December 12 12:08 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Saturday 01 December 12 12:08 GMT (UK)
I have one ancestor that has turned up from Bedfordshire, she was born in Biggleswade according to her census records but as yet have not found any record of her birth.

I have found a marriage cert entry to Samuel Skinner 2 Oct 1838 in Friskney, Lincs on freereg stating her father was James

I have found a death record Mar 1918 in Boston age 101!

It all seems to fit, and was wondering whether anyone could give advice if I could find anything else out about her or her family, particularly as this is the only ancestor that is from the county I now live in!

As she states in every census that she is from Biggleswade I assume this means she really did come from there and not an outlying village - would this be reasonable?

I did find one transcribe as Askwell
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Saturday 01 December 12 14:28 GMT (UK)

As she states in every census that she is from Biggleswade I assume this means she really did come from there and not an outlying village - would this be reasonable?


I don't think you can make this assumption, particularly as she was living in Lincs in all censuses. Biggleswade baptisms up to 1875 have been extracted onto the IGI. There's only one Ashwell prior to 1845, and that was in 1785. The same with burials in Biggleswade - there's only one Ashwell, James John age 15 in 1831.  So it doesn't look as though there were too many Ashwells in Biggleswade.  Which makes it seem more likely that she may have been from one of the villages near Biggleswade. The most likely baptism is in Langford, adjoining Biggleswade, on 9 July 1820, daughter of James and Mary. Proving it's your Mary might be more difficult!

Do the witnesses at her wedding provide a clue?

I can't see a baptism for the 15 year old James* either. Might he have been Mary's brother?


David

* Probably because his name was John, not James!
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Saturday 01 December 12 17:00 GMT (UK)
I think you maybe right and that she must be from a local village, as Biggleswade seems to be drawing a blank. 

Just nipped down the local library to see if I could find the parish reg - but Flitwick only has to 1812 for that area, they don't know where the next one is - maybe at Biggleswade library.  They couldn't find the fiche either :(  Freereg seems to be fairly comprehensive up to 1812 but not after, so Family search seems to be the only one with a Mary.  There are a lot of Ashwells in Langford

and I also found this reference to a James Ashwell in Langford - that maybe her relation  http://apps.bedfordshire.gov.uk/grd/detail.aspx?id=3173

The witnesses to the wedding give no clue Mary Ann Richardson & John Wharrie
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Saturday 01 December 12 17:43 GMT (UK)
The Bedford Records Office transcripts, which are the ones the libraries have, only go up to 1812.

If James was transported it would explain why I could find no trace of him; burial or census. I wonder who his wife was. Did she remarry, or just move away from Langford. I can't find a marriage for James and Mary
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Sunday 02 December 12 12:26 GMT (UK)
Ah that is why it wasn't there - the library staff didn't know. 

I did wonder if the mother died in childbirth which is why I can't find any other children.  Perhaps Mary was sent away to Lincolnshire to relatives? 

Looks like a mystery I will never solve, I did wonder if the fact that she lived to 101 would mean that there was any reports in local papers, although as I can't find her birth record she may not be that old! 
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 02 December 12 18:35 GMT (UK)
http://foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/c31a31010199 has an entry for James Ashwell. It states, without sourcing the information, that he had a "Wife & 3 Ch at Biggreswood".  The James John age 15 buried in Biggleswade in 1831 might be one of the three children, and Mary baptised in 1820 in Langford another. I'd check Biggleswade microfilm for the burial to see if there's any other detail. Same with the 1820 baptism - she might have been a late baptism.

I think it's solveable!

David
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Sunday 02 December 12 20:07 GMT (UK)
In 1851 living in Friskey Lincs (where Mary married Samuel Skinner) was
James Merrell head marr 52 ag lab b Thorpe Lincs
Mary Merrell wife 54 b Biggleswade
Mary Ann Skinner grand dau 3 b Friskney

They were living in Friskney in 1841 but with no one else in the household (indexed on Ancestry as Menil)

I don't believe in coincidences.

All that's needed now is to find the marriage of James Merrell and Mary hopefully Ashwell, and if it was after 1837 you'll get her maiden name too

There's a marriage in St Leonards Shoreditch on 3 Oct 1825 between James Merrel and Mary Ashwell, which although it's a bit early is worth investigating. (Bachelor and widow, both otp). I can't see any children born in Shoreditch. All of which gets us precisely nowhere in trying to establish Mary's maiden name!

Found it! Marriage Biggleswade 30 Oct 1815 James Ashall and Mary Crowther and baptism of John Ashell son of James & Mary at Biggleswade on 12 May 1816, presumably the John who was buried age 15 in Biggleswade on 16 Feb 1831.

I think this is a mystery which is on its way to being solved! More work needs to be done though.

David
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Sunday 02 December 12 22:25 GMT (UK)
wow you have been busy - I am still learning what records are available, I did start doing searches on ashell but didn't find that one.

I have children already from the 1851 and 1861 census and there is a gap where Mary could fit.

So sounds like I may have a pig stealer in the family :(  I will go back to those records on BLARS.  I am sure there was some research on Ancestry about this on another tree, I will see what they turned.

Thank you so much.
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Sunday 02 December 12 22:32 GMT (UK)
I see he got a conditional pardon 12th Oct 1836, on the link you sent, so I presume he stayed in Tasmania.  Looks like I need to do some searching there now :)
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Monday 03 December 12 12:24 GMT (UK)
It's Mary Ann Skinner aged 3 in the 1851 census who's the key. If you can prove that she was the daughter of Samuel and Mary then that will link her mother Mary to Mary Merrell, named as her grandmother,  and thus to Biggleswade. There's a birth registration of Mary Ann Skinner in Spilsby registration district, which includes Friskney, in the June quarter 1847 vol 14 page 571 which might be her.

I don't know though, how James Merrill from Thorpe, Lincs, met Mary Ashwell in Biggleswade, and then moving to Friskney at some time before 1841. I can understand them marrying in London in 1825 as Mary would probably have been known in Biggleswade as being the wife of James Ashwell, the transportee, and hence couldn't have married locally as it would have been known to be a bigamous marriage.

It would be interesting to see how the burial of John Ashwell in 1831 was described. Son of James and Mary Ashwell? Son of Mary Merrill (wishful thinking!)? Or with no mention of parents at all?

David
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Monday 03 December 12 18:53 GMT (UK)
like you say it is strange if the marriage is theirs that they end up in Shoreditch, although not far from Kings cross, which I would think would be the station that they would go to.  No marriage certificate if it is this one.

So I could get the birth cert of Mary Ann Skinner and would prove it would all fit.  Any advice on what I could do about the burial on John Skinner?  I could take a trip over to the graveyard and see if I can find the headstone, if there was one.  All of the registrations are at St Andrews in Langford, so presume this to be the same.  Although if he was only 15 would they have moved and left him in bedfordshire?
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: joemacd on Friday 28 December 12 16:14 GMT (UK)
Hi cbcarolyn, Just come across your request as to the name Ashwell, i know of this name in my wife's family. Her grandmothers name was Florence Ashwell and her G grannies name also Florence Ashwell, from Langford, I know nothing more other than a relation died in Lincoln and by coincident also my wife's maiden name.  I may be able to obtain more from her cousin who has been researching family.
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Friday 28 December 12 18:25 GMT (UK)
I have not come across a Florence anywhere.  I have used the info given to me to add to me tree, but will still need to verify with some certificates, but have to say it all seems to fit.  I have found some info in the Australian paper archives, about james ashwell, but can see that 2 by the same name (at least) from the same area were sent to VDL!

Always appreciate any info, there was definitely family left in Langford and Mary went to Lincolnshire.
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: joemacd on Saturday 29 December 12 14:41 GMT (UK)
I have not come across a Florence anywhere.  I have used the info given to me to add to me tree, but will still need to verify with some certificates, but have to say it all seems to fit.  I have found some info in the Australian paper archives, about james ashwell, but can see that 2 by the same name (at least) from the same area were sent to VDL!

Always appreciate any info, there was definitely family left in Langford and Mary went to Lincolnshire.

 All registrations of birth marriage and death in the surrounding area Would have been registered in Biggleswade, you will find Ashwell in Meppershall, Clifton, and Blunham, I know their were family living in Blunham, i was working in Blunham and through speaking to a local lady found out that the old lady living opposite the Bungalow i was working on was related to my wife.
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: joemacd on Saturday 29 December 12 14:48 GMT (UK)
All can be found on family search
name:    Charles Ashwell
gender:    Male
baptism/christening date:    05 Feb 1848
baptism/christening place:    CLIFTON,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father's name:   William Ashwell   
mother's name:   Charlotte

parents:   James Ashwell,? Sarah
name:   Ashwell
gender:   Male
baptism/christening date:   27 Sep 1789
baptism/christening place:   LANGFORD,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father's name:   James Ashwell


name:   Fanny Ashwell
gender:   Female
baptism/christening date:   09 May 1841
baptism/christening place:   BLUNHAM,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father's name:   William Ashwell
mother's name:   Mary

pouse:   Charlotte Woollard
groom's name:   William Ashwell
bride's name:   Charlotte Woollard
marriage date:   05 Aug 1832
marriage place:   Clifton,Bedford,England



Fanny Dilly
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   05 Nov 1843   MEPPERSHALL,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   James Dilly,? Sarah
name:   Fanny Dilly
gender:   Female
baptism/christening date:   05 Nov 1843
baptism/christening place:   MEPPERSHALL,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father's name:   James Dilly
mother's name:   Sarah
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: joemacd on Saturday 29 December 12 14:58 GMT (UK)


Fanny Dilly
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   05 Nov 1843   MEPPERSHALL,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   James Dilly,? Sarah
Fanny Caroline Felice Tilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Fanny Dilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   06 Sep 1846   CLIFTON,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   David Dilley,? Catherine

Fanny Dilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   24 Jul 1853   CLIFTON,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   John Dilley,? Mary Ann

Fanny Dilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   30 Apr 1871   CLIFTON,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   George Dilley,? Mary Ann

Fanny Dilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   12 Nov 1875   CLIFTON,?BEDFORD,?ENGLAND
parents:   James Dilley,? Hannah
Fanny Dilley
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   19 Jul 1863   LANGFORD,? BEDFORD,? ENGLAND
parents:   Charles Dilley,? Hannah
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Saturday 29 December 12 15:03 GMT (UK)
Thank you I have been looking on there also, although not ventured into Clifton, concentrated, in Langford and Henlow.  Did nip over to the churches recently, but Langford graveyard has very few old stones.  henlow does have quite a lot and plan to go back there when the weather is a bit drier and have wander.
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: joemacd on Sunday 13 January 13 17:36 GMT (UK)
Hi cbcarolyn, Just come across your request as to the name Ashwell, i know of this name in my wife's family. Her grandmothers name was Florence and her G grannies name also Florence Ashwell, from Langford, I know nothing more other than a relation died in Lincoln and by coincident also my wife's maiden name.  I may be able to obtain more from her cousin who has been researching family.


\my wife on her fathers side, g grandfather Charles Ashwell g grandmother Fanny Ashwell born Dilley, born in Langford 3rd Jan 1893,
Title: Re: Mary Ashwell b around 1817
Post by: cbcarolyn on Sunday 13 January 13 23:11 GMT (UK)
my links are much further back than that in Langford, Mary moved to Lincolnshire.  I have not found much out about the siblings she left behind.