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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Wattsy on Friday 30 November 12 16:09 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone
I have come across a brick wall and don`t know where to start looking.
I have for many years been unable to find the name of the father of Hessie Potts b 1891/2. Recently Find My Past has made available old newspapers and found a reference to a trial in the Nisi Prius Court in Liverpool. Although they mention the fathers surname his christian name is not recorded in the newspaper article.
Does anyone know if or where is would be possible to get a copy of the full Court hearing in order to identify the fathers full name?
Any help would be appreciated.
Kind regards
Wattsy
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Ancestry has England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 so there is a chance he has just scraped in there.
Are you a member of Ancestry ?
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Is she the one born in Hayfield Derbyshire and married there in 1920 to a George Mammatt?
I see that in 1901 she is with her grandparents Alfred and Hananh Potts.
The marriage or birth cert will tell you her fathers name( unless she was born to a single unm mum with the Potts surname) or you can follow this family back through the censuses and see which male is missing by 1901.
ADDED- I've just looked at the family o each census and wonder if she is the daughter of unmarried mum Matilda who then went on to marry Algernon Furniss at All Saints Marple Cheshire in 1900
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Thanks for quick replies.
I am a member of Ancestry and I will re check.
Unfortunately the BC does not give a fathers name. The mother of Hessie is Clara Potts who married George Mammatt and emigrated to Australia. Hessie never gave any info about her father and as a result I wonder if she ever knew.
The newspapers reports father as being Jowett and damages were £1,100 fairly substantial for that time.
So, just wondered if court cases for Liverpool were available.
Wattsy
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If you already have the birth cert and it doesn't mention a father,then I doubt you'll ever find who he was. Clara Potts obviously didn'twant anyone to know.
Sometimes you get a clue as to the father by a middle name the child is given,but not in this case.
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Hi
Yes I agree I never expected to know his name BUT there was obviously a court case regarding the "seduction" of his daughter Clara in Liverpool in 1892.
Hence my query where or how I could find the Court records. All I know is that they were held in Nisi Prius Court Liverpool and recorded in Liverpool and Manchester Newspapers on 13th Dec 1892.
Cheers
Wattsy
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The records mentioned earlier only seem to go up to the early part of 1892.
Perhaps they'll transcribe more up to date ones soon- you can but hope.
The "Seduction" of Clara- wow that sounds like a book title ;)
Maybe Liverpool Record Office can help?
Carol
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He must have been a man of considerable means to have afforded to pay out £1000 back then?
There's a family of Jowett's in Mellor Derbyshire in 1891 who are cotton manufacturers.
Hmmm????
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Some such records seem to be in the National Archives.
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/Catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=16&CATLN=1&accessmethod=5&j=1
However the description is a little confusing as to whether all nisi prius records are there and whether they include your dates.
Let us know if you find the culprit :) Not just seduction but breach of promise of marriage, according to the 15 Dec 1892 reports.
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He must have been a man of considerable means to have afforded to pay out £1000 back then?
There's a family of Jowett's in Mellor Derbyshire in 1891 who are cotton manufacturers.
Hmmm????
There is a Potts family with a daughter Clara who is a mill worker in Mellor Derbyshire in 1891, so it looks like you've identified the scoundrel's family!
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Hi
Yes, the Jowett family are the local mill owners and there would appear to be 3 sons who could be the likely father. There is a James, William and Charles, all of which seem to be around the right dob. But which one?
Its just is so annoying that the newspapers give the name in full of the lady concerned but do not name of the father or "seducer".
Wattsy
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If you already have the birth cert and it doesn't mention a father,then I doubt you'll ever find who he was. Clara Potts obviously didn't want anyone to know.
The Registration Act of 1874 states:
"The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and mother must sign the entry as informants" The Act came into force on 1st January 1875.
Stan
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Of the Jowett brothers I would think Charles an unlikely candidate as he had married in 1890, so before the conception of Hessie whose birth was registered in Sep qtr 1892. As a local girl Clara surely would not have been duped into thinking Charles would marry her, then?
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My money is on William 8)
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The description "seducer" may be putting it mildly i'm afraid :(
This is part of what the campaigner Richard Oastler had to say about the condition of mill workers in the North of England .
1832 Parliamentary Papers
".......... I have refrained from exposing the worst parts of the system (the mills in the North of England) , for they are so gross that I dare not publish them. The demoralising effects of the system are as bad, I know it, as the demoralising effects of slavery in the West Indies. I know that there are instances and scenes of the grossest prostitution among the poor creatures who are the victims of the system, and in some cases are the objects of the cruelty and rapacity and sensuality of their master. These things I never dared to publish............."
link to ful text
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/factmine/oastler.htm
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My money is also on William - however Clara was not the daughter of a poor family. Father was a grocer,also granary owner and also owned at that time Dove Bank Mill. I believe that there was probably a marriage proposal between the families and then a change of mind.
But not knowing which of the Jowett boys is annoying.