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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (North Riding) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Paul Beard on Thursday 29 November 12 18:59 GMT (UK)
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Rose Ellen (aka Nell or Nellie) Beard was a grand aunt of mine. I know that she was born on 3rd March and when married in 1898 her age was shown as 25 - so born in 1872 or 1873. She died on 7th June 1957, in Brighton, Sussex. Her death certificate gives her age as 84 and her year of birth as abt 1873.
Her parents were James Beard (1848-1910) and Jane Beard, nee Turner (1848-1922). James was a journeyman stonemason. Rose was their first child. Their second child was born in Penrith in 1875.
The family moved to Gloucestershire and Rose (shown as aged eight), along with her parents is shown on the 1881 Census living in Barton St Mary, Gloucester. There is no trace of her on the 1891 Census. She married Henry Simmons, in Helsby, Cheshire on 30th May 1898 and the couple are shown as living in Brighton, Sussex on the 1901 and 1911 Census returns.
GRO have been unable to trace a birth certificate for Rose. I know that the day and month of birth are correct as family diaries have birthday entries in. I have traced a Rose Ellen Beard born in South Shields in 1869 but she, despite later living in Gloucestershire, does not connect.
If anyone has access to Normanby Parish records could they please check them for Rose's birth and baptism. I am not entirely sure when and where her parents were married so she could appear as illegitimate. Her only daughter died without having children so there is no hope of finding any blood descendants to assist.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to read this lengthy message and for any help you are able to give.
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Where did you get Jane's maiden name of Turner from?
Jane was born in Scotland so could they have married there?
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Where did you get Jane's maiden name of Turner from?
Jane was born in Scotland so could they have married there?
I looked on scotlandspeople 1870-1881 and there is no James Beard marrying a Jane or a Turner in that period
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Hi
Thanks for getting back to me. Jane's maiden name of Turner is on the birth certificates of her subsequent children. As for her marriage to James - that has proved impossible to find in either Scotland or England. I have come to the conclusion that they had an irregular marriage as permitted in Scotland.
Her place of birth varies on the Census returns - Scotland, Glasgow or Longtown 'Dumfriesshire'. I appreciate that Longtown is the English side of the border with Dumfriesshire but I know that she was Scottish from what my grandfather, father and aunt told me and what is recorded in my grandfather's diaries that I have - some of which date to the early 1900's. Her clan was Lamont.
1881 Census for Rose and her mother
Name: Rose E. Beard
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Beard
Mother's Name: Jane Beard
Gender: Female
Where born: Normanby, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Gloucester Barton St Mary
Country: England
Street Address: 3 Millbrook Cottage Millbrook St
Employment status: .
Occupation: Scholar
Name: Jane Beard
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Beard
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Gloucester Barton St Mary
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 3 Millbrook Cottage Millbrook St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Registration district: Gloucester
Sub-registration district: South Hamlet
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2537
Folio: 22
Page Number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
James Beard 32
Jane Beard 32
Rose E. Beard 7
John D. Beard 5
Henry A. Beard 2
Regards
Paul
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hi ive found a rose j turner born 1875 9d 469 guisbrough
ive found some times they use both names in births i,e rose turner, beard
just a thought if this one helps in any way dave
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Dave - thank you. That isn't something I had actually thought of so will see where that takes me. Regards - Paul
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Dave - thank you. That isn't something I had actually thought of so will see where that takes me. Regards - Paul
it was a thought as ive come across it before in a search for a friends scottish family moved to mbro
i cannot she a death for her b 1875 rose j turner or a marriage in mbro dave
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The birth entry above is for Rose Jane Turner December qtr 1875 - yours was Rose Ellen born 1872/73.
However - Guisborough is the right Reg district for Normanby
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The 1881 census has a Rose Turner aged 5 b Brotton Yorks with parents Arthur and Phyllis living in Battersea RG11 Piece 643 Folio 94 Page 64
Brotton came under Guisborough RD
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hi carole w thats my fault it was just an idea as i cannot see any births at the moment for rose beard in mbro 1873
dave
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Hi,
Can't seem to find Rose and Henry in 1901/1911 in Brighton. Can you provide references? Where does Rose say she was born in these censuses?
A shot in the dark - there's a Rose BEEADLE (sic) registered 3/1873 in Pickering (FreeBMD) which would be the registration district for another Normanby in Yorkshire.
Nannawilk
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Hi,
Can't seem to find Rose and Henry in 1901/1911 in Brighton. Can you provide references? Where does Rose say she was born in these censuses?
I've been looking as well Nannawilk, the only one I can come up with on the latest census and married to Henry - is Ellen Simmons, born in Leeds.
Pels.
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Providing it's the correct person, in 1901 Ellen, aged 29 claims to have been born in Bradford, which doesn't exactly help.
Pels.
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Yes, seems a bit of a problem. Think I'll give up for now and wait for Paul to enlighten us!
Nannawilk
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Here's the marriage from the IGI - Henry was born around 1871
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F356-FFL
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I think Henry was b Sussex as per 1881 entry in which case the reply by Pels re: 1901 entry and birthplace Bradford would seem to be the right one - shown as Ellen
RG13 Piece 926 Folio 147 Page 5
As per GRU 1911 index - birthplace is Leeds - again shown as Ellen
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Apologies for not replying to posts sooner - have been away. I have obtained the birth certificate for a Rose Ellen Beard born in County Durham in 1869 and although the father's name is James Beard it doesn't appear to fit with what I am searching for, albeit I will obtain the marriage certificate of James and the wife named on the birth certificate just to make sure. The following Census details relate to Rose. In addition I know, from her marriage certificate, that Rose had been living in Regent Square, Bloomsbury, London prior to her wedding in Cheshire and that she had been employed as a servant.
1881
Name: Rose E. Beard
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Beard
Mother's Name: Jane Beard
Gender: Female
Where born: Normanby, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Gloucester Barton St Mary
Street Address: 3 Millbrook Cottage Millbrook St
Education:
Occupation: Scholar
Household Members:
Name Age
James Beard 32
Jane Beard 32
Rose E. Beard 7
John D. Beard 5
Henry A. Beard 2
1891
Not yet known
1901
Name: Ellen Simmons
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry Simmons
Gender: Female
Where born: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Brighton
Ecclesiastical parish: Brighton St Matthew
County/Island: Sussex
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Simmons 31
Ellen Simmons 29
1911
Name: Ellen Simmons
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Leeds, Yorkshire
Civil parish: Preston
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street Address: 71 Redvers Road Brighton Preston Sussex
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 13
Estimated Marriage Year: 1898
Registration district: Steyning
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Simmons 41
Ellen Simmons 37
Rose Simmons 8
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I've exhausted my options - have checked suggestion re 'Rose Beeadle' - birth certificate does not relate to person I am seeking but worth a shot in the dark. I am left to conclude that she may have been born in Scotland, where her mother came from, but why continually use place names in Yorkshire on Census returns as where she was born? I suppose another possibility is that she was adopted so would never know what her birth name was. Thanks to all of those who have helped try to solve this mystery. Happy New Year.