RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: brianz on Monday 26 November 12 14:33 GMT (UK)

Title: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Monday 26 November 12 14:33 GMT (UK)
HI
    I have a 4x great grandfather Richard Hannam b 1760 London. His father of the same name b abt 1730/40  I have identified him as a Peruke Maker of St James Street in the Borough of St James in the County of Middlesex. A copy of Richard Jnr's indentures dated 1777 place his father in St James Street as a Shopkeeper, The 1774 Poll Book gives him as a Peruke Maker at the same address in 1774 married to an Elizabeth they had 7 or possibly 8 children.
I would like to find out more abut Richard Snr but am not sure how to go forward London seems so complicated any help would be appreciated

Thanks Steve
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 26 November 12 15:41 GMT (UK)
Ancestry has a database "England & Wales Christening Records 1530-1906".

On there is:

Name: Richard Hannam
Birth Date: 2nd February 1760
Christening: 24th February 1760
Place: Westminster

Parents: Richard Hannam & Elizabeth
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 26 November 12 15:46 GMT (UK)
Also at Westminster to Richard & Elizabeth Hannam:

Mary. Birth 24th August 1758; Christening 17th September 1758
John. Birth 29th April 1762; C 24th May 1762
William. B 25th October 1763; C 29th November 1763
John Delme. B 27th January 1765; C 17th February 1765
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Monday 26 November 12 16:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks KGarrad, I have copies of the parish records for the children it was the father and where they lived that I was interested in thanks anyway

Steve
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: [Ray] on Monday 26 November 12 16:53 GMT (UK)
Hi

You didn't ask about the geographics . . . . .

St James's Street is still where it was in 1760.
Runs from Piccadilly down to St James's Palace.

Main thing that you would(may) notice about London 250 years ago is that there were NO TRAINS. Therefore no stations nor (rail) bridges across the Thames. Westminster and London bridges were there, but not carrying steel rails.
The Mall was an avenue/a row or three of trees.
 
Ray



Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: mc8 on Monday 26 November 12 17:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Brianz

Here are a couple of online resources to put some meat on your rellies bones

http://www.victorianlondon.org/index-2012.htm this is a really interesting site packed with info (only three references on perukes came up in the search facility though).  I bought his book on Victorian London but haven't tried the others

The Booth site at LSE is also a great starting point although his notebooks are later in date-at least you can search by street name and see the relevant pages http://booth.lse.ac.uk/

If you fancy a long read, then London, The autobigraphy by Jon E Lewis , London the biography by Peter Ackroyd, English Society in the 18thC by Roy Porter, London, a social history by the same author, and Liza Pickard's Dr Johnson's London-every day life in London 1740-1770 are all readable
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: mc8 on Monday 26 November 12 17:15 GMT (UK)
I went to Familysearch.org and found his six siblings-showing the parents were settled  in St James for some years.  Presumably, John Delme Hannam indicates a family (maternal?) name which may help go back further-or have you already drawn a blank on that?

Also-there is a child born to Richard and Ann in 1793 in St James, indicating Elizabeth was dead by then-or was that the son and his wife?
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: [Ray] on Monday 26 November 12 17:19 GMT (UK)
Hi

(James) Boswell's London Journal 1762/3 (if you can find a copy)

18 months in the life of an !8c wannabe "yuppie" in London as recorded by him in his diary. Definitely give you a feel of what ordinary life (well one step above working) was like in London.


Ray

Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: mc8 on Monday 26 November 12 17:35 GMT (UK)
Looks like there was a Hannam family in Westminster from 1715 (John & Jane and later George & Mary including some non-conformist records) again on Familysearch-no direct link to Richard though
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Monday 26 November 12 18:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone
                      mc8 John Delme Hannam only shows up in Ancestry and IGI and not FindMyPast and only his birth and baptism ( I have a copy of the register so it is correct) I thought Delme was possibly his mothers maiden name but could get no further. the family seem to have been fairly static since before their first child in 1758.
Richard Snr's I have been unable to find, plenty of names but nothing concrete. I also do not have a date of death for him.

Ray thanks for the book recommendations
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: Tittensor ONS on Monday 26 November 12 19:30 GMT (UK)
Hi, you might find your ancestor in rate books.  I found my family in a St James watch rate book for 1776 at Westminster City Archives (catalogue ref D609).  Full coverage of their rate books will be on their web site.

Regards,

Paul

Tittensor One-Name study web site: www.tittensor.com.
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: Emmeline on Monday 26 November 12 20:06 GMT (UK)
Hello Steve

I took a look at DocumentsOnline and found there are Hannam Wills there which may be of interest.

There is one for an Elizabeth Hannam, Widow of St John the Evangelist, Westminster - 1772.

You may see a connection in the Hannam names.   Good Luck........

Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Tuesday 27 November 12 12:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone very useful info.
Emmeline I found that Will and downloaded it but apart from the name and date being in the right area it gave no family members except a Sister Mary which seemed strange give a fairly large family. But I'll not discount it yet.

Thanks    Steve
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: Emmeline on Wednesday 28 November 12 01:01 GMT (UK)
Hello Steve

It's always a thrill when one purchases a Will which has enough clues to tell you it belongs to the family you

are looking for.

I have plenty where perhaps only one sibling is mentioned ( one wonders why) and so they have been put to

one side until more information surfaces.  Never discard or discount   ;) ;)
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: mc8 on Wednesday 28 November 12 10:19 GMT (UK)
What a pity there was no obvious link in the will. One to keep up your sleeve for another day is an earlier Hannam in the same area

Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers. Will of John Hannam, Tallow Chandler of Saint James, Middlesex.
Collection: Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Date range: 12 June 1725 - 12 June 1725
Reference:PROB 11/603/411
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Wednesday 28 November 12 10:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks Emmeline It seems strange that it was such a brief will barely a page, not that there was much value in it.

Thanks mc8 This John could have been one of Richards older brothers, I think I might purchase a copy and see if it has any further info on it. Where could I obtain a copy?

Steve

Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: ciderdrinker on Wednesday 28 November 12 11:42 GMT (UK)
Try londonlives website
Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: mc8 on Wednesday 28 November 12 12:44 GMT (UK)

Thanks mc8 This John could have been one of Richards older brothers, I think I might purchase a copy and see if it has any further info on it. Where could I obtain a copy?

Steve



Its on the Documents Online website as before-I used advanced search, using Hannam and then any one of London, Westinster and James'

If you cannot locate it, try putting in the document reference I quoted, or I will try to send a link
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Wednesday 28 November 12 15:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks mc8
                    I found the Will. He only mentions his wife Jane, Daughter Elizabeth Toping (presumably married). Sons George and John both aged under 21. I will have to have a dig and see if I can construct a family now I have a bit to go on. The will is actually quite legible.
Thanks again     Steve
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: dantemortem on Friday 28 August 15 14:50 BST (UK)
the Delmes were a Huguenot family, the London branch descended from Philip Delme  were the ones using this version of the name, originally du Mez.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=bigsby&id=I265
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: brianz on Saturday 29 August 15 10:40 BST (UK)
Thanks dantemortem
 My 5x g grandfather had 7 children all born in St James's Westminster between 1758 and 1769.
The problem that I have is that although I have a considerable amount of information about his later life  I can find nothing about when or where he was born.
The only connection I have to the name Delme is one of his third son has it as a  second Christian name and I thought it may be his mothers maiden name.
The name du Mez I have not come across.
If his wife Elizabeth was a Delme she would have to have been born around 1735 give or take ten years.
Do you have any other info on the Delme family or know were I could find some more info. I am in London for a few days at the beginning of September.

Thanks again  Steve
Title: Re: London know how reqd
Post by: dantemortem on Saturday 29 August 15 14:21 BST (UK)
The Du Mez version was earlier. Peter "the Czar" Delme 1710-1770 was a wealthy banker and his descendants married into the aristrocracy. It's an unusual name and I suspect all the London Delmes are descended from Peter's grandfather Philippe, who died 1655. He was an important figure in the Walloon church in Kent. There are more Delmes than in the rootsweb chart. On familysearch I see some not mentioned.
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Adelme~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1700-1739~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland

It's likely there is a Delme connection on the mother's or grandmother's side. It would help to find the marriage. Maybe they mangled his surname?