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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: nong43 on Friday 23 November 12 00:21 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I'm wondering if anybody might know something I don't, or might at least be able to add a different perspective or notice something I haven't.
I'm trying to work out how my ancestor Mary BISCOE (married Joseph CULPEPER on 17.08.1673. in Hughenden, followed by my ancestor John STALLION (a widower) on 07.10.1686. in High Wycombe) fits in with the other Biscoes in south Bucks.
I have printouts of all the (published) Biscoe baptisms and marriages in from 1538 (not that any of the parish records seemed to start then) to 1800, from Bucks FHS. I have Robert Biscoe's (1572-1630) will, as well as that of his mother Joan (née Randall), who died in 1622. I even have a PDF copy of The Pedigree of the Family of Biscoe by John Challenor Covington Smith, published in 1887...and I'm still none the wiser.
The basic problem is that I can't seem to ascertain which is the right Mary. I know it's not the one baptised in Little Missenden in 1640, daughter of John and Anne, as she died less than a year later. I know it's not the one baptised in Little Missenden in 1644, the daughter of Richard and Mary, as she went on to marry a John Gurney and live in Hillingdon. There are a couple of others, but the dates are too early or late.
The most likely candidate is, I think, the Mary baptised in the parish of Hughenden (not necessarily the village - the parish stretched as far as modern Hazlemere) on 08.10.1649., the daughter of Robert Biscoe (no wife's name mentioned). Her brothers all have biblical names - Israell, Nathaniell and Moses - which might indicate that this Robert was a Puritan, but it doesn't help me much, because then I'm stuck with how to fit this Robert into the lineages I know. He might be the Robert who was baptised in High Wycombe on 13.11.1614., son of Robert (who went on to be mayor twice and whose will I have) but this younger Robert shows up on the pedigree as having only one child, John, baptised in High Wycombe on 10.10.1640.. Since there are no baptisms to Biscoes in High Wycombe after 1642, and none in Hughenden before 1646, perhaps this Robert is the correct one, but I think the evidence is, at the moment, circumstantial.
I hope this hasn't been too confusing. As I said, if anybody has any advice or knows something I don't/has access to sources I don't, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Martin
UPDATE - 23.11.12.: I've just noticed that the daughters of the Hughenden Robert Biscoe are called Mary and Susan, and the wife and mother of the Robert baptised in High Wycombe in 1614 are called Mary and Susan(nah) respectively, so perhaps that's significant. I've ordered the wills of Susan(nah) Biscoe (née Lane) in the hope that it mentions her grandchildren, and Moses's in the hope it mentions his sister, so hopefully that'll clear up some things. ???
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Just a few Biscoe/Bisco burials from Hughenden. Not sure of you have these.
10 Apr 1658 - Robert, son of Robert.
26 Dec 1661 - Samuel, son of Robert.
4 Feb 1679 - Hanna, daughter of Robert.
5 Oct 1680 - Jonas, filius of Roberti. Certificate 7 Sep.
Feb 1683 - A female child of Rob Biscoe. Certificate 23 Feb
Dec 1684 - Robert, a Farmer. Certificate 16 Dec.
20 Jun 1704 - Nathaniel, of Little Missenden. Buried in wool.
19 Nov 1715 - Moses, buried in wool.
3 Sep 1680 - Susanna, filia of Roberti & Mariae defunct. Certificate 7 Sep.
I wonder if you have a Robert Bisco/Biscoe marrying a Maria.
(Did you notice a Mary Biscoe(widow of Hitchenden), marrying Edwrd Gomm(batchelor of Hitchinden). 29 Nov 1716 @ Hughenden).
As you've got baptisms and marriages from Bucks, I doubt I can help much more.
Steve. :)
From BucksFHS - Hughenden Pr's CD.
PS. I share about 10 of your names of interest from Bucks. :o
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There a few Wills on the Bucks Archives database that may be of interest. ;)
Steve. :)
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Hi Steve, thanks for replying.
I don't actually have any burial printouts, so this is very useful information.
I can't find mention of Robert, son of Robert or Samuel, son of Robert, on my baptisms or the pedigree, but I'd be surprised if they didn't fit in in some way, since I know of and can see several Samuels and Roberts on the pedigree (different people, it would appear, but families did tend to use the same names over and over again).
Hanna, I don't know about.
Jonas, filius Roberti, could be the one baptised in HW in 1640. Looking at FreeREG, I can also see a marriage between a Johannes Biscoe and a Maria MATHEWS in Hughenden on 28.02.1670, which might be him as well.
Nathaniel and Moses, I'd presume, were the same two baptised in Hughenden in the 1640s, sons of Robert and brothers of Mary and Susan (and more than likely the above-mentioned John).
Susanna, filia Roberti et Mariæ defunct, now this might be significant; her parents were both dead, which might indicate that they weren't young, which would fit with Robert being the HW Robert of 1614. Also, the John baptised in HW in 1640 had parents called Robert and Mary, and we know that the Susan who was baptised in Hughenden in 1659 had a father called Robert. Funny thing is, I can't find a marriage for Robert and Mary. Perhaps they were nonconformists (Robert's brother John was - he wrote books about it), although I can't find a marriage on the online registers.
If Susan's father was the one baptised in 1614, then both her parents would not have been that young when she was born, which may have led to health problems on her part which contributed to her early death at 31. (That is, if it's her; this is all speculation).
I noticed the 1716 marriage, but discounted it as I'm not aware of Mary reverting to her maiden name of Biscoe (plus I don't know when John Stallion died).
I'll have to check out the Bucks Archives database. Where is it located?
Martin :)
P.S. 10 names?! Which ones? I might know things you don't (and vice versa)
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Firstly, Bucks Archives link. http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/archives/online_resources.page? Click Wills, in....'Buy Online' box. Click....'Go to Service'........and type in surname of Bisco, in the search box only.........click search. There should be 5 wills available to purchase.
I think 10 names was optimistic. ;D
James Ridgley, 1789. Hughenden. Wife - Jane Cartwright.
Jacob Ayres, 1770, Oving. Wife - Elizabeth Windleburrow.
Wheeler's, of Chearsley, Bledlow and Kingsey.
Biggs, of Bradenham.
George Dean, 1754. Hughenden.
Austin, of Dinton.
Saunders of Chalfont St. Peter.
Ann Franklin, to Nathaniel Channer, of Chesham.
Turner, of Waddesden.
Bowler, of Princes Risborough.
Blackwell, of Princes Risborough.
Bailey, of Aylesbury.
Free, of Hughenden.
Stone, of Princes Risborough.
And Ann East, who married James Turner in P.Risborough in 1700.
All of these names are linked to my tree, in some shape or form. But few are direct ancestors.
Dammit, I was going to PM these. :o ;D
Oh well, I'll remove them once you've had a scan. ;D
Steve. :)
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UPDATE - 23.11.12.: I've just noticed that the daughters of the Hughenden Robert Biscoe are called Mary and Susan, and the wife and mother of the Robert baptised in High Wycombe in 1614 are called Mary and Susan(nah) respectively, so perhaps that's significant. I've ordered the wills of Susan(nah) Biscoe (née Lane) in the hope that it mentions her grandchildren, and Moses's in the hope it mentions his sister, so hopefully that'll clear up some things. ???
Hi Martin, My interest is the LANE family but I did look at the will of Robert BISCOE, Gent of Chipping Wycombe, d.1630 in passing. It mentions children John, Thomas, Robert & Jane. Jane was married to William WIDMER, Gent at the time.
Are you looking at all the PCC BISCOE wills as well? There are some in Bucks but you definitely need to look over the border in Middlesex and London imo.
N.B. Everybody was pretty religious in the 1600s so having religious names doesn't signify anything other than they were christians.
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Hi Supermoussi
If it turns out I am descended from Robert and Susan Biscoe, I'd be interested in hearing about the Lanes as well. I know that Susan's father was called Thomas and that he was from North Dean in the parish of Hughenden, and that he died in 1615. Is it known where the Lanes came from? Is it possible that they have some link with the Lanes in Northamptonshire?
I'm not familiar with the abbreviation PCC (rather unfortunate, since I've been researching my ancestry for over 12 years). What does it mean?
Re the names, I only mentioned them as they stuck out a bit amidst all the Johns and Roberts. (Although it was the time of the Civil War, so the Puritans would have been in the ascendancy).
Steve - I'd be interested in how your names fit in with what I have, if, that is, they do. My tree on Ancestry is called "MjH's Family Tree", if you want to check it against what you have.
Martin
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Hi Martin,
re. the LANEs, there were 2 generations of LANEs living in Hughenden before Thomas of North Dean. They started with a Thomas LANE who died in 1535. Several of his descendants were listed in Visitations in which they claimed the right to bear the Arms of the LANE family of Orlingbury, Northants (and possibly Thingdon aka Finedon before). I suspect that the heralds would have verified this quite easily so there is little reason to doubt this imo.
HOWEVER, please don't believe some of the info lying around on the internet about the family. Unfortunately some Burke seems to have done a rush job on researching this family and made gratuitous errors which, of course have spread like wildfire (including to the Hughenden Church Guide). :o
There are several links between the Hughenden LANEs and Swanbourne in N.Bucks where another LANE family lived of similar status, starting with a Robert LANE d. 1547 and Ralph LANE d.1548. Bearing in mind Swanbourne is between Hughenden and Northants, I would hazard a guess and say that Thomas LANE of Hughenden originally came from Swanbourne, and was a brother or 1st cousin of Robert & Ralph, but that is pure speculation. Any link with Orlingbury is probably further back in time, say, 1450 or before..
Anyway, unless you prove you are descended from Susan BISCOE nee LANE that is of no real interest to you.
PCC wills were wills registered at a "national" level rather than at county level and typically were made by relatively prosperous people who had assets spanning different counties. The National Archives provide more info and a search page here:-
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills.htm
Note that BISCOE could be spelled a variety of ways (BISCO, BYSCOE, etc) so it is worth doing wildcard searches on both the PCC and Bucks wills indices, e.g., BISC*. You can download them from the National Archives website for £3.36 each or you can view them for free if you visit the National Archives itself at Kew. Some other libraries/records offices may also give access but am not sure which ones.
Also look at the Access 2 Archives site and do various searches like BISC* in Buckinghamshire between 1500 and 1700 and you will find things like:-
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=008-sefton&cid=8-2&kw=bisc*#8-2
Hope this helps. :)
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Hi Supermoussi,
I didn't realise the wills on the National Archives were referred to as PCC wills. I have the ones for Robert Biscoe (d. 1630) and his mother Joan née Randall (d. 1622) already, which is how I got Robert's children's names.
While the names and the dates make it look like the Robert who had four children in Hughenden could well be the same as the one baptised in 1614 in HW, the evidence is still largely circumstantial, which is why I've ordered Susan Biscoe née Lane's 1648 will. I'm hoping it mentions children of Robert and perhaps that he's living in Hughenden, but we'll see. (I know it wouldn't mention Mary anyway, as she wasn't born till 1649). That would at least be proof that the Biscoe children baptised in Hughenden in the 1640s were the grandchildren of Robert Biscoe Sr and Susan. If it turns out I am descended from her, would you be willing to share some of your findings with me?
When it comes to online pedigrees, I take them with a hefty pinch of salt; a lot of people seem to want to find a descent from a titled person, so often, it would appear, make assumptions based on wishful thinking or sloppy research. I'll be honest, I'd like to find a descent from a titled person for the new geographical and social vistas it opens up, which is why, if anything, I apply even more scrutiny than normal to lines that I think might lead somewhere. That said, I got into the genealogy game to find the truth, whatever that turns out to be. It's been fun so far.
I like the humourous and subtle "Burke" reference. Very funny! ;D
Martin
P.S. What was the nature of that reference in the second link, the one on the A2A site?
UPDATE: Just found a scan of a 1909 book containing the heralds' visitations of 1634 for Bucks. I've found the Lanes, but as you said, it merely says "Descended from the Lanes of Northamptonshire", so not much help. Very interesting, though.
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which is why I've ordered Susan Biscoe née Lane's 1648 will.
I've got to admit that is one LANE related will I haven't looked at. If it contains any references to her siblings/nephews/nieces please could you let me know? Thanks.
If it turns out I am descended from her, would you be willing to share some of your findings with me?
Sure, I'll give you the main highlights/pointers relevant to you, but not an all-encompassing GEDfile type of thing. I think consensus is that spreading those type of things around just leads to discouraging people from actually checking things out themselves, and so spreads unverified errors around..
P.S. What was the nature of that reference in the second link, the one on the A2A site?
No specific one, just an example. BTW did you pick up on the fact the Bucks Records Office was holding documents that at first glance only referred to London BISCOEs? This is as sure a sign as you can get that either Bucks BISCOEs moved to London or vice versa. Also some of the BISCOS of Chesham and Missenden were Tanners and seem to have been linked to Uxbridge just over the border with Middlesex. It is almost certain that you should look at the Middlesex/London wills too. Some are online but you may well find you need to visit the London Metropolitan Archives as well.
UPDATE: Just found a scan of a 1909 book containing the heralds' visitations of 1634 for Bucks. I've found the Lanes, but as you said, it merely says "Descended from the Lanes of Northamptonshire", so not much help. Very interesting, though.
I seem to recall there are also Hughenden LANE descendants in the Visitations of Middlesex (Thomas of Perivale?) and Oxon (Badgemore?).
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I have the ones for Robert Biscoe (d. 1630) and his mother Joan née Randall (d. 1622)
btw, Susan LANE'S uncle, Edward LANE married a Sibill RANDALL d. of Edward RANDALL in 1579. Were Joan and Sibill sisters I wonder?
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Hi Martin. I have no paid up subs for Ancestry, so I cannot view your tree.
Steve. :)
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Well, I've got the wills back, and all I can say is "curiouser and curiouser".
First things first: Susan's will. Unfortunately, from what I understand (the note on the compliment slip was confusing), BCC couldn't photocopy the original will as it's too fragile, so they sent a copy from the parish register. Trouble is, it's nigh-on illegible. It's not that it's written in secretary hand that's the problem, as I'm not too bad at reading that, it's just that it's written very badly. Having said that, I can make out mention of a daughter Margaret, plus (elsewhere) the surname Widmer. It is accompanied by a paragraph written in Latin which is in much neater handwriting, but unfortunately it's full of abbreviations and my Latin is pretty ropey anyway.
The wills for William Stallion (d. 1696) and John Stallion (d. 1764), who probably are related somehow, are much more useful/legible and give the names of not only children, but also grandchildren. They seem to back up what I've seen on Ancestry, which would imply that whoever originally uploaded the data was probably using the wills as their source.
The most useful in terms of showing any Stallion/Biscoe link is the will of Moses Biscoe (d. circa 1717). In it, he mentions the children of his sister, Mary and John Stallion (implying she predeceased him).
But!
Her name was Ruth!
???
Added to this, a contact on Ancestry says that Mary, wife of John Stallion, died in 1688. Perhaps John got married a third time, to Mary's sister Ruth. But if that's the case, why does there appear to be absolutely no record of a Ruth Biscoe anywhere?
Steve, would you be able to check the information you have for anything regarding a Ruth Stallion or Biscoe, even if it's a burial?
As I said, curiouser and curiouser...
Alice Martin
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Just did a quick search in IGI. and there is a Ruth Stallion marrying Paul Tilbury in Little Missenden, Bucks. 7 Dec 1761.
Her baptism was 25 Jan 1740 @ Little Missenden. Ruth, Daughter of John & Eleanor Stallion.
Nothing on IGI for Ruth Biscoe.
I'll have a peek in Hughenden Pr's, and see what else I can find for Ruth ??.
Steve. :)
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Thanks, Steve. I'd presume that Ruth was named after her relative. They seemed to recycle names a lot.
Martin
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Ok......I'm just going to chuck some records I've found in Hughenden at you, and hopefully they may match up with the Will/s. I may repeat myself with some finds. ::)
Stallions in Hughenden
Burials.
Mary Stallion, wife of John of Little Missenden. 2 Dec 1688.
William Stallion. 12 Sep 1806. no age given.
Sarah Stallion. 21 Jan 1839. aged 96 of Wycombe Heath.
Ellen Stallion. 17 Jan 1857. aged 87 of Widmer End.
William Stallion. 13 Feb 1859, aged 78 of Kingshill.
Baptisms.
William, son of William & Sarah Stallion. 1770.
John, son of William & Sarah Stallion. 21 Jul 1776.
William, son of William & Sarah Stallion.
Marriages.
John Stallion & Elizabeth Randall. 18 Oct 1674. (BT).
Abraham Stallion & Anne Morton. 24 Dec 1696. both of Little Missenden. by license.
Giles Stallion(widower), & Elizabeth Rayner. 20 Oct 1700. both of Little Missenden. by license.
Anne Stallion(of Little Missenden), & William Clarke(of Penn). 6 Apr 1725. by license.
Rebeccah Stallyon(of Little Missenden), & John Fowler(of Penn). 28 Sep 1729. by license.
William Stallion & Sarah Wingrove. 27 May 1776. b.o.t.p.
Did you have all these. ? And I'd bet my dogs dinner, that your answers lie in Little Missenden.
Found this in Hughenden.
Frances WIDMER, daughter of Mr. Thomas & RUTH Widmer. 27 Nov 1711. Born at 5am, Sunday morning, 25 November.
Ruth WIDMER, daughter of Thomas & Ruth. 21 Nov 1719.
Mary WIDMER, -------------ditto-----------------. 19 Jul 1717.
There are other children baptised to Thomas & Ruth in Hughenden.
I can't see a marriage in Hughenden for Thomas Widmer.
I would also assume, that Widmer End is named after this family, at a guess.
Steve. :)
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I would also assume, that Widmer End is named after this family, at a guess.
I believe so. For what it is worth they are on P221 of the 1669 Bucks Visitation although no BISCOEs mentioned:- http://ia700301.us.archive.org/12/items/visitationofcoun58phil/visitationofcoun58phil.pdf
Note that the name was often spelled WIDMORE not WIDMER so try both when looking at PCC wills etc.
I can't see a marriage in Hughenden for Thomas Widmer.
They had links to London and elsewhere so distant marriages are a possibility.
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I would also assume, that Widmer End is named after this family, at a guess.
"The name of Widmer, a family who lived at Rockhalls in the 17th and 18th centuries, survives in the small hamlet of Widmer End with Widmer End and Widmer Farms, half a mile to the north-east."
from
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42529
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It's OK, it's getting easier to read Susan's will now...it's a bit like one of those Magic Eye pictures. I can now make out "furniture", "bedsheets" "daughter", "dozen" and "Robert". No apparent mention of Hughenden.
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that, based on what I've seen, it's my belief that the John Stallion, son of Ruth née Biscoe, is the same as the one who died in Holmer Green in 1764. John son of Ruth was clearly of age when his uncle Moses died, otherwise Moses would have inserted a line saying "when he is of age" or something similar. Then there is the fact that John of Holmer Green called three of his children Ruth, Mary and Moses. Seems a bit of coïncidence otherwise, although I admit that's possible.
I do wonder why there's no record of a Ruth, and I wonder if that's what Mary was called by her family to distinguish her from all the other Marys (her sister-in-law and daughter, for a start). If this is the case, then John and Mary her children would have to have been born earlier than people think. Maybe Ruth/Mary/? died in childbirth, I don't know. (In situations like this, once I have what I feel is enough evidence, I tend to apply the old Sherlock Holmes maxim, i.e., "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".)
As for Robert Biscoe of Hughenden being the same as the one baptised in Wycombe in 1614, the only thing I can think is that if this is the case, perhaps his mother sent him there to look after the land that had belonged to the Lanes.
Based on this, supermoussi, would you be willing to share some of your Lane information with me, or at least let me know where you obtained it? :)
Also, did you notice in the National Archive wills, one for a certain John Lane of the "good Ship the Bisco Merchant" in 1696?
Steve - thanks for the burials. I think some of those are the same as on the wills.
Martin
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No apparent mention of Hughenden.
Note that it was also known as Hitchenden, Hutchendon and many other variations. The Hughenden spelling is relatively new. The H is often written as a "hanging h" which can also camouflage it.
I do wonder why there's no record of a Ruth, and I wonder if that's what Mary was called by her family to distinguish her from all the other Marys (her sister-in-law and daughter, for a start). If this is the case, then John and Mary her children would have to have been born earlier than people think. Maybe Ruth/Mary/? died in childbirth, I don't know. (In situations like this, once I have what I feel is enough evidence, I tend to apply the old Sherlock Holmes maxim, i.e., "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".)
:( :o ???
If you have a jigsaw puzzle, get it out, throw away half of the pieces, set down the rest on the table and see what picture it forms. ;)
Your logic above largely depends upon the absence of information supposedly pointing to a lack of other options. There are 4 main explanations for your missing bapts imo:-
- Gaps in the registers as a result of damage or illegible writing
- Missing Registers - (perhaps West Wycombe before 1660?) (quite likely where Mary/Ruth's bapts are)
- The 1649-60 Commonwealth Gap (also quite likely where Mary/Ruth's bapts are. see:- http://family-history-research.org/advanced-family-history/commonwealth-gap.html)
- You are looking in the wrong place due to the family moving around
I haven't spent any time on this but have you checked out what happened to the London BISCOs like:-
SAINT MARGARET,WESTMINSTER
bapt 29 Apr 1640 - John Bisco s. John Bisco, Elizabeth
bapt 14 Sep 1641 - Mary Bisco d. John Bisco
SAINT MARTIN IN THE FIELDS,WESTMINSTER
bapt 23 Mar 1650 - Nathaniell Byscoe s. John Byscoe, Ann
Also, was there a Berkshire link:-
Marr 29 Dec 1683 - Cookham, Berks - Moses Bisco & Mary Floid
The classic headslap genealogy error you find on webrings and pedigrees is that people want to bend the few remaining facts to advance their own tree. Spanning the mid-1600s without wills is nigh on impossible except in rare cases where it is a rare surname and the PRs of the surrounding area are unusually complete and legible.
Unless you can pin down your BISCOEs exactly you are just playing russian roulette with your tree, and it won't be long before you are researching someone else's ancestors and not your own.
Also, did you notice in the National Archive wills, one for a certain John Lane of the "good Ship the Bisco Merchant" in 1696?
I saw it last week and did wonder. Definitely worth a look.
Sorry if all of the above seems a bit of a downer, but it is all to easy to take the wrong step in paper based genealogy and end up wasting a great deal of time and money on the wrong people...
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I was aware that Hughenden had been called Hitchenden, etc., but still can't find any reference to it, sadly, although the will continues to get easier to read.
Regarding the reasons for no information about Ruth/Mary/?'s baptism or marriage, I'd say that whilst there could easily be gaps due to the reasons you stated, I have other records for West Wycombe, where if the records had been destroyed I would expect to have found none at all.
Also, while it would appear that there are no records of the baptisms of four of Robert Biscoe's children, their full birth dates are recorded. Someone was clearly being thorough enough to make note of the details of their births. This was during the Commonwealth Gap.
I can't find any evidence that this particular clutch of Biscoes moved around much at this stage, except to the next parish occasionally.
I don't understand why I can't find a record of Ruth, but, since we have records of Moses her brother, we at least know her father's name. Who his parents were, hard to say with absolute certainty, but his daughters' names being identical to those of Robert of Wycombe's wife and mother is indicative of some link, imo, given the common family naming conventions of the time (although these were not always slavishly adhered to). Plus, as we know, Susan had links to Hughenden herself.
I can't locate the Westminster Biscoes on the pedigree I have, but then not all descendants are on it. Out of interest, does a little "bird's foot" on a pedigree indicate that that individual has descendants not included on that pedigree? Given the origin of the word "pedigree", I did wonder.
(the pedigree can be found here, by the way: http://ia600302.us.archive.org/0/items/pedigreeoffamily00smit/pedigreeoffamily00smit.pdf . I know you are researching the Lanes, but it might still be useful or of interest). There is a mention of a Thomas Biscoe of Swanbourne on page 3.
I wasn't aware of a Berkshire link, but 1683 would make the Hughenden Moses 28 when he married (if it is him), plus his wife was called Mary. Incidentally, John (d. 1764) Stallion had a daughter, Martha, who married a Floyd and had three children, William, Mary and Martha. She (Martha Sr.) predeceased her father, which is why her children are mentioned on John's will.
That said, the Berkshire Moses could be a different one, as I had been under the impression that Moses's wife's maiden name was Ginger, since he mentions his brother-in-law John Ginger.
I've ordered the Rev. John Biscoe's will, which I'm hoping mentions his brother Robert. I don't suppose it will, though. I suspect that I will never be able to conclusively prove a descent from Robert Biscoe and Susan née Lane, although the choice of children's names is suggestive of something. ???
Thanks for all your help so far. :)
Martin
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I can't locate the Westminster Biscoes on the pedigree I have, but then not all descendants are on it. Out of interest, does a little "bird's foot" on a pedigree indicate that that individual has descendants not included on that pedigree?
Yes the pedigrees you have are abbreviated and do not show all of the descendant lines. You need to look at wills and PRs yourself to flesh out the tree as there is obviously more info out there.
As well as the reasons I mentioned before as to why you may not be able to find all baptisms the pedigree raises the spectre of another 2:-
- At least one BISCOE went to live in the US before returning to England, so there may be BISCOE baptisms in the US
- At least one BISCOE was a non-conformist so there may be no record of his children's baptisms (quite a common problem in S.Bucks)
There is a mention of a Thomas Biscoe of Swanbourne on page 3.
Did his will say anything interesting that may explain the Lane link?
I wasn't aware of a Berkshire link,
Surely the Cookham marriage is likely connected to the Rev. Samuel BISCOE of Bisham?
the choice of children's names is suggestive of something. ???
Robert's brother Richard also used names like Susan, etc...
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Also, did you notice in the National Archive wills, one for a certain John Lane of the "good Ship the Bisco Merchant" in 1696?
Martin
This will was made by John Lane of Rotherhithe, about to set sail on the Bisco Merchant, commanded by Capt Francis. The will appoints John Phillips, waterman of Rotherhithe and his wife Mary as the executors. As far as I can make out, it instructs the executors to pay his sponsors and the crew if anything happens to John Lane, but doesn't appear to mention John Lane's wife, children (he may not have had any, of course) or other relatives etc. The writing is fairly clear but very faint in parts.
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Yes the pedigrees you have are abbreviated and do not show all of the descendant lines. You need to look at wills and PRs yourself to flesh out the tree as there is obviously more info out there.
Do you know of any sources of wills other than Bucks CC or the National Archives? There don't seem to be many on either, and I already have most of them. (I've ordered Robert Biscoe of Chesham's will (dated 1685) as well, btw - I don't think he'll be closely related to Moses, but you never know - it could still hold useful information).
As well as the reasons I mentioned before as to why you may not be able to find all baptisms the pedigree raises the spectre of another 2:-
- At least one BISCOE went to live in the US before returning to England, so there may be BISCOE baptisms in the US
- At least one BISCOE was a non-conformist so there may be no record of his children's baptisms (quite a common problem in S.Bucks)
Would the former be Richard (d. 1652) and the latter the Rev. John? Re the nonconformists, whilst I can find a couple of pages of them on www.bmdregisters.co.uk (http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk), they don't include a Moses or a Ruth, and the dates are too late. That said, I recognise some of the names from the pedigree as descendants of the Rev. John. Do you know of anywhere else that might store nonconformist records?
There is a mention of a Thomas Biscoe of Swanbourne on page 3.
Did his will say anything interesting that may explain the Lane link?
I don't have his will, unfortunately, just the one line that says "Thomas Biscoe (? of Swanbourne, and will in Arch. C. Bucks, 1613)". I presume the question mark refers to his occupation being unknown, not speculation about his place of residence or origin.
Surely the Cookham marriage is likely connected to the Rev. Samuel BISCOE of Bisham?
Ah, that Berkshire link! It's possible, but his surviving children are listed on the pedigree as being alive on the day his will was proved, implying that the author of the pedigree had seen his will. If this is the case, then I would have expected a Moses to be mentioned.
Robert's brother Richard also used names like Susan, etc...
True. They obviously liked her! :)
Martin
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[...] As far as I can make out, it instructs the executors to pay his sponsors the crew if anything happens to John Lane, but doesn't appear to mention John Lane's wife, children (he may not have had any, of course) or other relatives etc. The writing is fairly clear but very faint in parts.
That's a shame. Still, I'd be surprised if there weren't a link, even if we never know what it is. I wonder what became of the ship?
Martin
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Do you know of any sources of wills other than Bucks CC or the National Archives? There don't seem to be many on either, and I already have most of them. (I've ordered Robert Biscoe of Chesham's will (dated 1685) as well, btw - I don't think he'll be closely related to Moses, but you never know - it could still hold useful information).
How many is not many?
Of course, you need to look at a few other counties for wills, e.g. Berks, Middx, Herts
Would the former be Richard (d. 1652) and the latter the Rev. John? Re the nonconformists, whilst I can find a couple of pages of them on www.bmdregisters.co.uk (http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk), they don't include a Moses or a Ruth, and the dates are too late. That said, I recognise some of the names from the pedigree as descendants of the Rev. John. Do you know of anywhere else that might store nonconformist records?
Nathaniel & John. Families almost always expermiented with different variations of religion. If some of them were early baptists/methodists/presbyterians there are quite likely to be no records for them.
Ah, that Berkshire link! It's possible, but his surviving children are listed on the pedigree as being alive on the day his will was proved, implying that the author of the pedigree had seen his will. If this is the case, then I would have expected a Moses to be mentioned.
I didn't necessarily mean he was a son; brothers, nephews, cousins often visit other relations (weddings, work, etc) and meet their spouse somehow in the process. Having said this wills do not always list all of someone's children. You quite often find the eldest son is omitted as he has already been given the testator's farm/estate and so has already "had his fair share". Sometimes youngest children are omitted if the testator has a lot of children and not enough money to go around.
True. They obviously liked her! :)
Susan was not an uncommon name in the Hughenden so whoever someone married they were quite likely to name a daughter thus.
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Ahh, I have finally twigged why you called this thread "Ahh, BISCOE" ::)
But then why post the question if you already knew the answer??? ???
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I may be a bit closer towards solving this eight-year old mystery. Or maybe I'm not...
A couple of months ago, I uploaded my AncestryDNA results to some other sites, one of which was FamilyTreeDNA. I was contacted on the site by someone who is also on Ancestry, and with whom I share some DNA (11cM, making us anything between 5th-8th cousins - I'd go with the higher number since 5th cousins would have a common ancestor in the second half of the 18th century). The only family we seem to have in common (there are over 30,000 people on his tree)...is the Biscoes.
I still don't know who our common ancestor might be, though; he is descended from Nathaniel Biscoe, born in Bucks, who settled in Watertown, Massachusetts, and I probably descend from Mary Biscoe, who died in 1688 (although her brother Moses refers to her as Ruth in his will, for reasons I still can't get to the bottom of).
So, now I know that it's highly likely I am descended from this family, but I'm still none the wiser as to how. Had no luck with Robert Biscoe (1627-1685)'s will - I just got a message from Bucks Archives saying it was water damaged and so they couldn't photocopy it.
:-\