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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: geordiepaul2001 on Thursday 22 November 12 09:37 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I have been stuck on my paternal line for over 5 years now, basically I am as far back as a John Mawson born circa 1781.
He married Ann Eden on 12/02/1805 in Forcett, North riding of Yorkshire.
He is shown on the 1841 census as John Marsden where he is living in Eppleby, North Yorkshire and working as an agricultural labourer and born in Yorkshire.
John was buried on 12/03/1851 aged 69 years (hence approximated birth year).
The monumental inscription for John reads 'In memory of John Mawson of Eppleby who died 12 March 1851 aged 69 years also Ann wife of the above who died 22 November 1830 aged 49 years.
Johns death certificate is mistranscribed as Mausten.
On each of Johns childrens baptism entries, John is listed as a labourer.
My problem lies here.....
I cannot find a birth for John in Eppleby and I have paid for the local records to carry out a check and they too have been unable to locate my John in that parish or any of the surrounding parishes.
On ancestry there are a number of people who have listed his am born in 1781 in Kirkby Overblow, though an equal amount of people have this person listed as married to a Frances Moody and not Ann Eden.
The difficulty being that John Mawson born in Kirkby Overblow is the brother of Sir Douglas Mawson (famous explorer) and I don't know whether people are just linking to this John to try and gain a famous ancestor in their family tree.
Can someone with a fresh set of eyes look at this information and suggest options for me to take this paternal line further back.
Thank you for taking the time to read this,
Paul
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Hi
Unless there were two of them Sir Douglas Mawson was born 1882 and died 1958 which is some 100 years after the dates you mention.
Andy
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Mawson
One of my family members was associated with Professor Edgeworth DAVID and thus my family member was also associated with Douglas Mawson. My family member assures me that Sir Douglas definitely died in 1958, in Adelaide, in South Australia. My elderly rellie says "Glenelg" and wiki says "Brighton", but both these are coastal suburbs in South Australia's capital city of Adelaide.
So I think that it is very unlikely that someone born in 1781 could have a brother (famous or not) who was born in 1882
On ancestry there are a number of people who have listed his am born in 1781 in Kirkby Overblow, though an equal amount of people have this person listed as married to a Frances Moody and not Ann Eden.
The difficulty being that John Mawson born in Kirkby Overblow is the brother of Sir Douglas Mawson (famous explorer) and I don't know whether people are just linking to this John to try and gain a famous ancestor in their family tree.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/mawson-sir-douglas-7531
"Sir Douglas Mawson (1882-1958), geologist and explorer, was born on 5 May 1882 at Shipley, Yorkshire, England, second son of Robert Ellis Mawson, a cloth merchant from a farming background, and his wife Margaret Ann, née Moore, from the Isle of Man. The family moved to Rooty Hill, near Sydney, in 1884."
Cheers, JM
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Apologies, The John Mawson would have been the brother of Douglas Mawsons gt. grandfather (Robert).
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Agh, now that makes better sense ;D
I am a tad NSW centric, so I am not much chop with non NSW searchings, sorry. :-[
Cheers, JM
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Your John and Ann included Robert and Sarah in the baptisms of their children in Forcett - the John and Frances (Fanny) in Otley didn't include either of these names when naming their children. Since the naming pattern was pretty consistent in those days if the John married to Frances didn't include Robert or Sarah in their children names I wouldn't have thought he was the John born in Kirkby Overblow in 1781.
The John married to Frances appears to have died in 1850 -
John Mawson bur.23/4/1850 Otley aged 67 (bc.1782-1783).
If it was down to an either/or I would say your John was the stronger contender for being the son of Robert and Sarah - my concern is that Kirkby Overblow is miles away from Eppleby/Forcett.
I'm assuming that there is nothing in his marriage record which indicates he was of another parish.
Annette
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Thanks for the replies.
I have attached a copy of the marriage entry taken, I couldn't see anything of use.
I wonder whether ordering the death certificate of the other John would provide any useful information.
Can you see any useful info on the marriage entry?
Paul
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Also, I recall that the witnesses appear several times for various marriages and were more than likely professional witnesses rather than friends/relatives.
Paul
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Hi Paul
Here is my reading of the marriage entry:
1805
John Mawson of this Chapelry, Husbandman
and Anne Eden of this
Chapelry, Spinster, were
Married in this Chapel by Banns
this twelfth Day of February in the Year One Thousand eight Hundred
and five by me Willm Hislop Curate
This Marriage was
solemnized between Us John Mawson X his Mark
Ann Eden X her Mark
In the
Presence of John Tennet? X his Mark
Charles Thompson
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Beat me to it, Prue!
Concur with all that.
Dawn M
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Thanks for that folks.
I presume 'of this parish' means at the time of marriage and not at birth.
Looks like I hadn't overlooked anything important, any ideas how to move forward?
Paul
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Since the naming pattern was pretty consistent in those days if the John married to Frances didn't include Robert or Sarah in their children names I wouldn't have thought he was the John born in Kirkby Overblow in 1781.
If it was down to an either/or I would say your John was the stronger contender for being the son of Robert and Sarah - my concern is that Kirkby Overblow is miles away from Eppleby/Forcett.
Hi Paul,
Annette mentioned a Robert and a Sarah as likely contenders because of the naming pattern - she's spot on because as far as my ancestors were concerned this area did adhere to it. Just to enlarge on what Annette said, assuming these are all their children :
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Robert Mowson
Bap. 1807
James Mowson
Burial 1808
James Mowson
Bap. 1809
Ann Mowson
Bap. 1812
John Mowson
Bap. 1814
Thomas Mowson
Bap. 1816
Elizabeth Mowson
Bap. 1819
Sarah Mowson
Bap. 1821
~~~~~~~~~~
First born son named after the father's father.
Second born son named after the mother's father.
Third born son named after the father.
Fourth born son named after the father's eldest brother.
Fifth born son named after the father's second oldest brother, or mother's oldest brother.
First born daughter named after the mother's mother.
Second born daughter named after the father's mother.
Third born daughter named after the mother.
Fourth born daughter named after the mother's eldest sister.
Fifth born daughter named after the mother's second oldest sister, or father's oldest sister.
~~~~~~~~~~
Providing Robert was their oldest son and with hopefully none missing, I'd say he was the most likely contender to be named after the father of John, although Elizabeth should be the above choice for his mother. I seem to have searched everywhere - only thing I can think of doing now is trying to prove he wasn't the one who was born in Kirkby Overblow.
If that makes sense ??
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Thanks for that pels.
You have indeed listed all of their children, at least I didn't find any more when I trawled the parish registers at Northallerton.
I agree that the naming pattern is almost an exact match, minus the Elizabeth and Sarah part.
I am not 100% sure of what you mean by proving he is not the one born in Kirkby Overblow.
I thought the naming pattern made it likely that he was the one born in Kirkby Overblow.
I am tempted to order the other Johns death certificate, however this would provide no indication as the where he was born.
Paul
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Found this info via a google search on John Mawson Kirkby Overblow - http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/a/r/Andy-Barrett/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0490.html
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Not many James Edens on familysearch but this one is Yorkshire and married to an Elizabeth so would complete the naming pattern - James Eden
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 27 Oct 1781 Bedale, York, England
spouse: Elizabeth Watson
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I am not 100% sure of what you mean by proving he is not the one born in Kirkby Overblow.
I thought the naming pattern made it likely that he was the one born in Kirkby Overblow.
Sorry, when I said that about proving it wasn't him - I meant because there wasn't another likely candidate nearer to the Gilling West area - it might be easier to prove your John wasn't the one born in Kirkby Overblow, rather than being the one who was.
For example, trying to see whether another person might also fit the bill for the Kirkby Overblow baptism, other than your John.
Clear as mud ! ;D ;D
Pels.
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Re your query in #10:
'of this parish' means also 'at this time'
sometimes they may have been 'of this parish' all their lives, or only for the last three weeks
:P :P :P
Dawn M