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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Friday 09 December 05 17:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
I hope this is not too much of a needle-in-a-haystack request, but I am trying to trace Reginald LAURENCE, who married into the WETHERED family the same year as my gt-grandmother did in 1897...
I believe he was born in Clapham in 1857, and his father was Sydney LAURENCE, b. 1819 and his mother was Mary, b. 1824.
He also had siblings: Mary, b. 1845; Sydney, b. 1847; Walter, b. 1849; Arthur, b. 1850; Percy, b. 1851; Joseph, b. 1853; William, b. 1855; and Howard, b. 1859.
The production line continued until a 13 children had been born, but none of these would show up in the 1861 Census, of course...!
I hope some kind person can find this family for me...
Very best wishes,
Keith
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RG9 414 folio 49
Lee Park Lee Kent
Arthur Jones Lawrence 10 Clapham, Surrey, Scholar
Percy Ed Lawrence 9 Clapham, Surrey, Scholar
Regards
Valda
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Valda,
What a strange little entry! But it certainly looks like two of his older brothers. Might they have been at some kind of boarding school here...?
Keith
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Think the family are spread out all over the place Keith. Mary A P Lawrence c.1846 Clapham, Pupil in Hove, Sussex (Belmont Dyke Rd) RG9/604 Folio 57 Page 55
Shelly
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I am presuming it was a sort of very small boarding school. The head of the household was a widow of a commanding officer. Along with her relations she had two governesses and 8 boys, some from abroad, so perhaps military connections.
Regards
Valda
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Shelly and Valda,
I know next to nothing about this family, apart from the fact that Reginald LAURENCE became an engineer and helped found Laurence Scott Electromotors, which at its height employed 3000 people in Norwich. You can still see remnants of the site as you come into Norwich on the train.
I'd love to find out what Sydney Laurence senior did as a living, if he appears anywhere on the 1861 Census...
Keith
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In 1851 Sydney and his family were living in Clapham and he was a stockbroker (born Kennington circa 1819). Not found on the 1861 census but presumed living in Clapham. 1871 census still in Clapham. Sydney was a member of the stockexchange. By 1881 a widower, Sydney had moved to Shanklin Isle of Wight and was a retired member of the stockexchange.
Regards
Valda
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Valda,
Strange about the 1861 Census...I don't suppose you could give me more details about this family in the 1851 or 1871 Census, could you?
Reginald LAURENCE had no children when married to Esbell WETHERED, and I'm trying to build up a picture of his brothers' and sisters' families.
About a year ago I photographed their grave in Felthorpe churchyard near Norwich, and spoke to an old lady of 93 who went into their house as a young teenager to work in the kitchen of Felthorpe Hall in the early 1920's.
My gt-grandmother, who had been also recently widowed, became very much part of her sister-in-law Esbell's life when Reginald died in 1923...
Keith
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1851 census HO107 1576 folio 367
Atkins Road Clapham Surrey
Sidney Lawrence 31 Kennington, Surrey, Head Married Stock broker
Mary Ann Lawrence 26 New Road or New Radnor?, Surrey, Wife Married
Mary Ann Pendys Lawrence 5 Merton, Surrey, Daughter
Sidney Arthur Lawrence 4 Bayswater, Middlesex, Son
Walter Lawrence 2 Clapham, Surrey, Son
Arthur Jones Lawrence 9 mths Clapham, Surrey, Son
Harriet Catherine Jones 21 Cardigan, Wales Wife Sister Visitor
plus 6 servants including a footman.
From FreeBMD
1844 June quarter Marriage Brighton
JONES, Mary Ann
LAWRENCE, Sydney
1871 census RG10 698 folio 131
Bygrive? House Clapham Surrey
Sydney Laurence 51 Kennington, Surrey, Head Married Member of stock exchange
Mary A Laurence 47 St Pancras, Middlesex, Wife Married
Sydney A Laurence 24 ½ Bayswater, Middlesex, Son
Walter Laurence 23 Clapham, Surrey, Son Undergraduate Cambridge
Arthur J Laurence 20 Clapham, Surrey, Son Undergraduate Cambridge
Percy E Laurence 19 Clapham, Surrey, Son Studying farming
Joesph A Laurence 17 Clapham, Surrey, Son Student Kings College London
Edith Laurence 9 Clapham, Surrey, Daughter
Ellen G Laurence 7 Clapham, Surrey, Daughter
Frederick S Laurence 6 Clapham, Surrey, Son
Annie M Laurence 4 Clapham, Surrey, Daughter
plus 8 servants including a fottman and perhaps the coachman and his family at the Lodge next door.
Regards
Valda
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Valda.
You've done me proud, again! Looks like young Reginald had rather a good start in life in sunny Clapham. A footman, indeed...!
Lots of excellent family detail to look into. Thanks very much indeed...
Keith
p.s. There seems to be a (large!)place called Belgrave House in Clapham Rd today which is split up into rented flats. I wonder if that is old enough to have been there in 1871 - have been looking at Estate Agents on the web...
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No it was in Poynders Road. More this
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sb3/
Regards
Valda
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Ah, that's me getting carried away again! I've just realised that the place I was hankering after is actually near The Oval Tube Station. Thanks for keeping my feet on the ground, Valda.
I've just had a look in a book I've got called:"London Suburbs" and it talks about the Clapham Park estate:..."the master builder Thomas Cubitt bought the estate in 1825... it was not completed until the 1850's and 1860's, by which time it was far and away the most fashionable suburb south of the river. Cubitt himself lived here, his house stood in Clarence Avenue, one of the main roads in the estate, along with Poynder's Road, Atkins Road and King's Avenue, this last being where the only houses to survive from this time are to be found..."
Keith
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Thanks for the information you have given from the book "London Suburbs". Would there be anything more you can tell me about Thomas Cubitt and his Clapham Park estate? I have already learnt a lot just from google but would be pleased to learn some more. My husband is descended from Thomas Cubitt's sister Mary Agnes who married John Cuthell. She died when her two sons were young so they were raised by Thomas. I am living the other side of the world and find it fascinating reading.
Thanks, Carmel
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Carmel,
Am at present in Denmark for a family bereavement and subsequent funeral in Sonderborg on Saturday. When I return to England next week I will have another look at that book and see whether there is anything more to add...
Very best wishes,
keith
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Thomas left a Prerogative Court of Canterbury will
Will of Thomas Cubitt, Builder of Denbies near Dorking , Surrey 10 January 1856 PROB 11/2225
City of Westminster Archives Centre: Diary of John Watson, builder, 1 January - 19 December 1849, with personal accounts 1849- 2 October 1851
Catalogue Ref. 2282
At the start of the diary John Watson was employed by Thomas Cubitt and during January and February he mentions working at Buckingham Palace and Osborne Houise, Isle of Wight. He also mentions Mr Cubitt visiting the Thames Bank works and speaking to him about leaving and seeking a reference. It was on 17 March that John Watson left Cubitt's employment to establish his own business. Subsequently the diary records details of deliveries of materials and client payments. Despite leaving Cubitt's employment he continued to do business with him and visited him at his Belgrave office.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda.
We already have the will of Thomas Cubitt which took some reading as he kept changing his mind about which extended family members should benefit and wrote 4 codicils. The information re John Watson is good. Are you related to him or is it just something you found while researching the local area?
Regards, Carmel
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I was responding to your message on this thread as I responded to the first request from Keith, so further messages come up from this thread in my 'inbox'.
I just did a further search for you in archive sources that are not indexed by Google.
Regards
Valda
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I'm moderately intelligent but I CANNOT see how even to post a message!! I want to contact a forum of 2005 I came upon by chance concerning my family It is Re: LAURENCE family in Clapham in 1861 Census but HOW do I send a message to Valda or to Keith Sherwood I could tell him all about those relatrions to Reginald Wilson, as I have his family tree and his sister is my grandmother. THere! Have I send a message????
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Welcome to Rootschat, valfid. I've merged your post with the thread you were looking for and hopefully Keith will soon see your post.
Meanwhile, have a look through the Help pages (button at top of page) to get information on posting messages, replying to topics, etc.
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Hello Keith, the youngest of the thirteen children of Sydney and Mary was Annie Marguerite - my maternal Grandmother. She married Cecil Wilson who worked with ghis brother in law to found Laurence Scott Electromoters and his son Gerald was Managing Director of the firm for many years for many years.
The family tree goes back to a glorious Zaccaria Levi 1751 -1828 born in Venice Italy and died in London. It was his son Joseph b.1791 who changed the family name to Laurence. He was the father of Sydney b. 1819
I could send you the tree, such as it is.
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RG9 414 folio 49
Lee Park Lee Kent
Arthur Jones Lawrence 10 Clapham, Surrey, Scholar
Percy Ed Lawrence 9 Clapham, Surrey, Scholar
Regards
Valda
Valda,
I have been in contact with Keith Sherwood most successfully. My grandmother was the youngest daughter of Sydney Laurence (who sent those two sons above, to school) I would so love to know a little more about the little boarding school you miraculously found! My own mother was never allowed to go to school because my grandmother had had such a bad time at her boarding school!! I have tried the internet to find it with noi luck.
Valfid
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Hi
Anyone could set up a small private school. They were not regulated and often were not around many years.
Regards
Valda
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I am presuming it was a sort of very small boarding school. The head of the household was a widow of a commanding officer. Along with her relations she had two governesses and 8 boys, some from abroad, so perhaps military connections.
Regards
Valda
Hi Valda, thanks for repklying, of course there must have been masses of little exclusive schools like this but I just wondered how you found out that the head was a widow and had those governesses and 8 boys . .. I wondered if there was a way of finding out more about it! As a newbie to your site I don't mean to be a nuisance.
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Hi
All the information is taken from the 1861 census return.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda
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I am a great great grandson of Sydney Laurence with many records relating to the Laurence name. The family stockbroking firm was merged circa 1990 with Rathbones and continues to this day.