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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: monstermollie on Monday 12 November 12 15:56 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone have access to the parish records for Gargrave, and would be willing to look up the birth of Emmeline BROOK bp 29.6.1873 - father Joseph Kellett Brook - mother Elizabeth - recorded baptism Coniston Cold.
Are there any other records attributed to Joseph K and Elizabeth ie siblings of Emmeline?
I cant find any info re Joseph's whereabouts on the 1871-1881 census, and the only Emeline's are local to Huddersfield area, and not recorded born in Coniston Cold
Thanks in anticipation
Regards
M
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If no one can help with the parish registers I would suggest sending for Emmeline's birth certificate, if she was baptised June 1873 she should be this one on the index's
Emmeline Brook Sept.q 1871 9a -345 Huddersfield, West Yorkshire.
Also knowing her fathers occupation would help tracing her parents on the census's. and any other siblings.
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I think that possibly the September quarter 1871 birth registration is for:
Emmeline Brook daughter of James and Hannah Brook of Commercial Street - born 15 August 1871 and baptised 13 August 1876 at St Peter, Huddersfield. James is said to be a Builder.
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The only other one on the index's that would fit with that baptism date is
Emelin Brook March q 1872 Halifax 9a - 446
There is one other though, but the registration is after the baptism date but not impossible I suppose.
Emmeline Brook Sept q 1873 Dewsbury 9b - 620
:-\
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I think we may also have the added problem that Gargrave and Coniston Cold now come under North Yorkshire, therefore parish records will be held in Northallerton. The parish of Gargrave is covered by Keighley & District FHS. All information gleaned from GENUKI. And Gargrave would come under the Civil Registration District of Skipton - again from GENUKI. :-* :-* Records are certainly not held by the West Yorkshire Archive Service - I have the booklet for Parish Registers.
And if we look for a Brook birth registration under Skipton between 1865 and 1873 we come up with one entry - Walter Harry in 1868 - FreeBMD :'( :'(
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Thanks for your suggestions.
However the clue is in the baptism record for Emmeline, in that her father is Joseph Kellett Brook, and wife Elizabeth.
I have checked the 1861 census and there is Joseph Brook married to Ann who later has a daughter b 1874 and who can be traced through the census records living at Church Street Gomersall. He was a stone mason.
Joseph Kellett Brook is recorded as married, an engine feeder at a flax mill in 1861 when he was living in Holbeck with his widowed mother and other siblings. However I have been unable to trace wife Elizabeth in 1861.
I did confuse the two originally, but now realise they are two distinct families.
I had wondered whether Emmeline (in later life) may have not realised she had been baptised at Coniston Cold and just recorded her local town as her birth town, but still havent been able to locate Joseph, wife Elizabeth or Emmeline on any of the census records.
Perhaps they just dont want to be found.........................
I have emailed the registrars office at Skipton to see if they have a record of the birth, so I may glean info from that if they have.
Thanks again
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Unfortunately you can never take as gospel anything you find on any census record or certificate for that matter until you have proved it for yourself.
Ages and places of birth were know for being notoriously wrong on the census's, often people did not know exactly where they were born so usually gave where they were living either as child or at that present time.
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There is a baptism at St Matthew, Holbeck for Charles Henry Brook, son of Joseph Kellett and Elizabeth Brook of Holbeck. Joseph is a Fireman. Born 29 September 1859 and baptised 10 December 1859.
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Hi BumbleB
I have that one too - Charles H died in 1863
I just wondered whether Elizabeth died as Joseph is living with his parents in 1861 and I cant find Elizabeth! but then there is the baptism record in 1873 of Emmeline !!
I can't help thinking I am missing something here which is possibly obvious to someone else, but for the life of me I cant work it out.
will keep on looking....................
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What about the possibility that Elizabeth died prior to 1861 and he remarried another Elizabeth hence Emmelines baptism in 1873 .
Food for thought perhaps. :-\
Half the female population were called Elizabeth back then
I will take a look at the index's later
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The IGI has a record of
Joseph Kellett Brook ch. 16.9.1832 Birstall, York, England
Father Eli Brook. mother Hannah.
Thats fits in with the 1861 census, also his birth place. Hannah aged 53 must be his mother.
Joseph is unmarried in 1851 aged 19 but given as married in 1861 with one child Charles Henry aged 1
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Corroborated by the parish records for St Peter, Birstall - Ancestry.co.uk. Address is Brown Hill, and Eli is a Miller, born 21 August 1832 - absolutely disgusting handwriting. :-X :-X
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There is a baptism at St Matthew, Holbeck for Charles Henry Brook, son of Joseph Kellett and Elizabeth Brook of Holbeck. Joseph is a Fireman. Born 29 September 1859 and baptised 10 December 1859.
Charles Henry Brook, December q. 1859 Hunslet 9b - 269.
I am not familiar with the area, but I cant see another that fits the time frame, as he was born 29th September, most likely registered in the next quarter. I think you need to get this birth and it will tell you Elizabeth's maiden name, then you can find the marriage, to see if he did marry another Elizabeth later.
I have looked for a marriage but there are so many Joseph Brook, if only he had used his middle name Kellett.
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Charle Henry was born 29 September 1859, according to the parish records. The marriage of Joseph Kellett Brook and Elizabeth Holgate was celebrated at St Matthew, Holbeck on 25 September 1859 :o ::)
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Right so we now know the marriage date of Jospeh and Elizabeth (Holgate),
As far as I can see at the present time, either Elizabeth (Holgate) died, or the 61 census giving Joseph as married is wrong. and should read windower :-\
As I said previously Joseph could have afterwards married another Elizabeth who had Emmeline in 1873
The key is to try and find Joseph in 1871 and 1881
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Charles H died in 1863
May I ask if you have his death certificate, to confirm he is the correct Charles Henry Brook please. ???
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I'm sorry to ask these questions, BUT ::) ::)
What evidence do you have for Emmeline's existence, other than the baptism entry at Coniston-Cold?
May I also assume that you found this baptism on Family Search, and that is why you require confirmation of the details?
Have you asked the same question on the North Riding posts? I'm asking this because Gargrave now comes under the North Riding, and the records are held at Northallerton, in which case you may have a better chance of confirmation.
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What evidence do you have for Emmeline's existence, other than the baptism entry at Coniston-Cold?
I have been thinking along similar lines, as there are so many Josephs Brook/s in Yorkshire all with similar childrens names ::)
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Hi
OK here we go
Joseph was the son of Eli and Hannah Kellett born 2.8.1832 bp 16.9.1832
There is a record of him marrying Elizabeth Holgate in 1859 BUT I can find any record of an Elizabeth Holgate in any of the census records, who has a father called Seth, as noted on the marriage cert. SO this begs the question did she have another name or is she just hard to find in 1851/41. Incidentally I cant find Seth Holgate either on any census form either!!
Joseph is recorded on the 1861 census living with his now widowed mother and there is a child recorded as grandson, Charles H - (Henry)
There is a record of Charles being born to Joseph Kellett Brook and Elizabeth so perhaps as "patrish" suggests Elizabeth is deceased and Joseph is recorded wrongly as still married
BUT I cant locate him on the 1871/81/91/01/11 census
The only record of him is that of the baptism of Emmeline at Coniston Cold.
Bearing in mind Joseph is recorded as an engine feeder at a flax mill in 1861 and a fireman on Charles's baptism record, a I tried searching on a number of different occupations to try and locate him - to no avail.
I have no other evidence of Emmeline's existance other than the baptism record, which giver her mother as Elizabeth.
I did wonder whether she had been born in the Hunslet area , which is where Joseph was living in 1861 and perhaps he only had her baptised later - if that's the case then her mother may well have been Elizabeth nee Holgate. Its not unusual for children to be baptised later so this could well be a red herring. I have also tried looking for a death around that time as perhaps Joseph had Emmeline baptised due to illness - again no luck there.
I am trying to locate Joseph and his family to tie up a loose end - I have the rest of his siblings through the census returns, and he is intriguing me. I dont want to add anything into my tree until it is proven hence my asking if anyone has any other ideas etc etc.
I am waiting to hear back from the Registrars office in Skipton re Emmelines birth cert, (in the past they have been very helpful) and fingers crossed they have one, BUT if she wasnt born in the area, only baptised then I will have to look elsewhere.
You're right~~ there are a lot of Joseph Brooks around the time, and I did mix "mine" up with the Joseph living at Church Street, Gomersal, who also had a daughter called Emmeline b 1874. However now realise they are two different families, and can trace Joseph at Gomersall through the census records.
In answer to patrich ~ no I haven't a copy of baby Charle's death cert, but tied it into a record on Yorks BMD but perhaps the next step is to get his birth/death certs to see what it says about his parents
Just wish Eli had given jis son a more unusual name and then he would have been so much easier to find.
Thanks for all your help it is much appreciated and LOTS of brownie points to anyone who can find Joseph et al through the census I know we all like a challenge................
kind regards M :)
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Thank you M for the detailed explanation :)
As I said I am not familiar with this area.
According to Genuki
Holbeck registration district was created 16.10.1862 out of Hunslet registration district, so maybe that's where we may find Elizabeth's possible death if she died before then, but again with such a common name how do we know we have the correct one :(
Even if that were found, it still does not explain why Joseph cannot be found in 1871 or 1881 ???