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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: boston14 on Sunday 14 August 11 15:37 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any descendents of James Gray and Jemima Pym.They had a son John b1881.m to
Alice Haggerty
John had a son James b 1911 m to Annie McCarron.
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I am looking for any descendents of James Gray and Jemima Pym.They had a son John b1881.m to
Alice Haggerty
John had a son James b 1911 m to Annie McCarron.
My brother in law is a descendent of Jame and Jemima through their son John born 1881 married to Mary Docherty.
I take it Alice was John's 2nd wife - my interest was his daughter Margaret born 1902. I never did find a death record for him. Did he die in Glasgow?
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Hi,
Yes, Alice was John`s second wife. John died in 1958 in Glasgow Royal Infirmary. I have his death record ( SP). would you like the details from it?
EP
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Hi Cookies4
I wondered if you had any more information about John Gray `s parents ,James and Jemima.I can`t seem to pinpoint James`s birth date, it changes on his marriage and death certs.Also his mother is listed as Mary on one and Margaret on another,I have a census that seems to suggest that his mother remarried . I seem to have lost your email.
Cheers
Evelyn
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1881 census
John Pym 52
Jane Pym 40
John Pym 16
Thomas Pym 13
Sarah Pym 11
James Gray 25 Son-in-Law born Ayr Occupation: Engine Keeper
Jemima Gray 18
James Gray 1
John Gray 3 MO
Address: 4 Silverfir Street Hutchesontown
1891
James Gray 38
Jemma Gray 29
James Gray 11
John Gray 10
Thos Gray 5
Wm Gray 2
Henry Gray 3 MO
John Dym (sp) 60
Thos Dym 23
Mary Mcgoldrick 22
Margaret Dym 7 MO
Address: 42 Lime St
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Sancti
Many thanks for the census info. I do not have these ones , much appreciated
Are you connected to this family?
EP.
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No I'm not related
Who were his parents on his marriage record as this is more likely to be accurate as he would have given the info?
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Sancti
On James`s marriage certificate 1879, his parents are Mary Robb and Andrew Gray.Wife is Jemima Pym
James 21 Engine keeper Jemima 18 Thread Mill Worker DoB1858
On his death cert. 1913 His parents are Andrew Gray and Margaret Gray previously Wallace ms Robb. Widower of Jemima Pym.Age is 62 dOb 1851 John Gray son is informant,
Birth dates don`t match, I know from experience dates do differ but not by 7 years usually !
THere is a difference of 3 years on marriage cert .of James and jemima
Difference of 11 years on death certs
James died 1913 jemima 1912
Beginning to think I have wrong people but details on certs match.
I had possible parents for Andrew Gray as James Gray and Jean Kirkland but James `s dates make it very hard to figure.
Thanks
EP.
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Was Andrew deceased when James married?
What was Andrew's occupation?
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Yes he was deceased
Andrew was a general labourer
EP
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1891 census.....
Hi Henry gray was my grandfather,he was born 1891,lived in 38 hallside st glasgow,married m smith, died 1946........
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There is a marriage in Ayrshire
12/10/1846 WALLACE JAMES and MARGARET ROBB at NEWTON ON AYR /AYR
James Gray was born around 1853 according to census records, is it possible that James Gray is the son of James Wallace and Margaret Robb and that James snr died soon after the birth and James only knew Andrew Gray as his father?
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Sancti
I think you have something there , that would explain the confusion. Can I give you a heads up on what I do have, another pair of eyes may see something I have missed.
Margaret Burnett Robb b 1826 Coylton ,Ayr, Parents Peter ROBB and Marion LOWE
Margaret Burnet Robb m 1855 James Robertson Glasgow
Margaret Robertson d 1899 age 72 widow of 1st Andrew Gray, Joiner,2nd James Robertson,parents Peter Robb and Marion Low Informant son James Gray .24 Adelphi Street.
1871 census
James Robertson head 58 watchman b Lanarkshire
Margaret Robertson wife 44 b Ayrshire
Marion Robertson daughter 10 b Lanarkshire
Ellen Robertson daughter 8 b Lanarkshire
Catherine Robertson daughter 3 daughter b Lanarkshire
James GRAY 17 boarder bottlemaker b Ayrshire
I have 1901 census with James , Jemima, and children James , Thomas William Henry Jane Jemima Peter, but the intersting address is 24 Adelphi Street, same as on Margaret`s death cert.
The only fly in the ointment is her cert. doesn`t mention James Wallace.
But the fact he is called James and not Andrew does point to him being James Wallace`s son
A bit complicated to say the least.
Cookies 4 contacted me as her brother in law is related to the Gray family and she is going to try and find something as well
Really appreciate your efforts,hopefully we will be able to solve the mystery !
Thanks Evelyn
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Hi MGM
Thanks for replying . Do you have any knowledge of the family of James Gray b 1911 d 1944 His wife was Annie McCarron , I think they had a son John b 1936.
Evelyn
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No not at the moment,except that he is Henry Gray`s brother,who was my grand dad,do you have any photo`s them or thier families...................... ???
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Evelyn, it is very confusing
On the 1855 marriage she is said to be a spinster rather than a widow. When James dies his mother is recorded as Margaret Gray previously Wallace ms Robb (no mention of Robertson)
From that there is the possible marriage 12/10/1846 WALLACE JAMES and MARGARET ROBB
If we have the same Margaret Robb, then James Wallace must have died she then married Andrew Gray and then married James Robertson in 1855
In 1855 the marriage gives James as 48 yrs old and Margaret as 28
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1851 she is living with her parents
Peter Robb 57 Born Dundee Angus Occupation: Gardener (master Emp None)
Marion Robb 50 born: Dundee, Angusshire
Margaret Robb 24 born: Coylton, Ayrshire Occupation: Employed At Home
Kennaerd Robb 15
Helen Robb 12
John Wallace 3 Grandson born Glasgow
Address: Gadjerth Holme Coylton Ayrshire
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This was taken from the Marriage lines of James & Jemima gray......
James father was Andrew Gray
James Mother was Mary Robb
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Jemima`s father`s name was john pym
Jemima`s mother`s name was Jane Close
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James & Jemima wed married on the 31st dec 1878 in a congragational church in Taylor st Glasgow
and they both stayed at 3 Hospital st gorbals,Blackfriars district..........
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1861
James is recorded as Robertson
James Robertson 59 born: New Monkland, Lanarkshire Occupation: Gate Keeker Pottery
Margaret Robertson 35 born: Culton, Ayrshire
John Wales Robertson 11
James Robertson 8 born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Jane Robertson 22
Morrison Robertson 1
Address: 43 Garngad Hill
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A possible record for Andrew Gray 1851 which would make the marriage between 1851 and the birth of James
Margaret Stewart 55
Andrew Gray 48 Lodger born: Calder, Lanark Occupation: Wood Sawer
Hugh Connar 21
James Ferguson 23
Address: 93 Westmuir Street Barony Glasgow
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Possible death record
15/01/1851 WALLACE JAMES Male at AYR /AYR
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sancti
This is great ! I knew another pair of eyes would pick up what I had missed . It was so confusing the 3 marriages for Margaret was so improbable I wasn`t getting the whole picture.
1851 census It looks as though James Wallace had died and Margaret was back home with her parents.
1861 Andrew must have died and James Robertson and family ,dates match for James b 1853
I think this is the best explanation yet .I can`t thank you enough for all your hard work , I really appreciate it.You have solved the mystery which has been taxing me for the last year or so.
Margaret seems to have been very unlucky with her husbands.
Many thanks
Evelyn
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MGM
This is one of the few I have managed to find , but many thanks for that . I am afraid I don`t have any information whatsoever about the family.You could try to contact cookies4 ,which I have also done,she might have some.Do you know if there were any other brothers or sisters of James and Henry?Apart from James and Jemima, who had a big family my tree is looking a bit sparse..Anything you can add would be very welcome, especiall Andrew Gray`s parents and siblings
Many Thanks
Evelyn
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MGM
Could you send me a private message .I am not sure how to do that.
Thanks Evelyn
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hi all :)
it's a bit mangled but familysearch has a john gray born 9th jan. 1881 hutchesontown lanark , father james gray mother jaminia pyan gray
ev
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Hi Ev
Thank you for the info.I did find this one Mind you I had to have a second look at it ! It`s a wonder we find any family at all with all the myriad of spellings. My family had a habit of acquiring nicnames, the only trouble was they put them on the census forms,
so it was hard to figure out who was who.
eg my gran`s name was Margaret, nickname Joyce. I thought she acquired this name when she was older .Her parents put this name down on 1901 census.aged 4.
The trouble was the registrar thought she was a boy and put her down as a son !
Cheers
Evelyn, sometimes known as ev !
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MGM
I have a photo of James Gray b 1911, gravestone.It is the only one I have of the family.It is his grave in Brouay , Northern France.He died in June 1944, a few days after D-Day. If you would like a copy I would be happy to send it to you.
Evelyn
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MGM ,
I can`t seem to get through on PM. Aologies it is probably something I have done.
Could you send me an email direct ,hopefully that will work. Let me know here if you got my email address
Cheers
EVELYN
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Hi ev
got your mail,very interesting reading,what amazed me the most was the fact how close they lived to each other,and never really heard my family mention anyone,what I do remember was I think,one lived in preston pans,another in dunoon,another in blackpool,but away back then everyone was my uncle,anyway at the moment Iam getting some stuff together for you to have a look at,and I will send it to you.......... :)
jenny
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Hi Jenny,
Glad you got them , will look forward to your info.I can`t seem to get any further back for definite than Andrew Gray and Margaret Robb. If there had been a marriage cert .there might have been more information on it , but just can`t find one. One of these brick walls again !
Cheers
Evelyn
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Hello
I am new to this site.Jemima Pym was a member of my Pym family who moved to Glasgow from Buckinghamshire.
Would like to correspond with family members.
Regards
Kate
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Kate ,
Anything I can help you with just ask
Evelyn
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Hello
I'm just new to this website, after finding a post on the net re the Pym and Gray families from Scotland and England.
The Roots web member had the above user name and was looking for info re Jemima Gray and the Pym family. They also spoke of Hallside St, if you know this user please ask him/her to get intouch with me as we are def family and I have 2 Jemima Gray's in my family one being my great grandmother and the other my gggrandmother.
thanks ;D
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat..is this the one:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,549462.0.html
Carol
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Hi Monte...I have asked a Moderator to move your post for you.
Good Luck!
Carol
Topics merged.
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Hello all,
I know this thread was started a while ago, but I can maybe fill in one or two blanks. I'm descended from James Robertson, Margaret Burnet Robb's third husband, by one of children to his first wife.
Andrew Gray, the father of James Gray, is said to have died at sea on his way to America, around 1841. His name also appears as Andrew Braid - don't know if he was known by two different names? (This appears on several Poor Relief records made by James Robertson in the 1870s.) In one record, James Gray is given as James Braid, but in later applications (by Margaret) he is James Gray.
Margaret's other son, John, was said (by both James Robertson and Margaret herself) to be the illegitimate son of Hugh Wallace.
I hope this is of some interest,
Janet
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Hi ,
I would be very interested in anything you have on the Gray family . I just can`t seem to pick up anything at all for Andrew Gray . It is a bit confusing though ,Andrew going to America round about 1841 . I can`t find a birth record for James Gray ,and on his marriage and death records he has about 7 yrs of a difference . Going round in circles ! I would be very grateful if you could shed light on the matter. I have a suspicion Andrew and Margaret were never married but he is listed as her husband on her death cert.
Regards
Ep
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Here are a few extracts from the PR records; there's not much about Andrew G.
In an application of 1857, it says (of James Robertson): "Wife: Margaret Robb or Gray, born in Gadgarth, Ayrshire...Wife’s first husband Andrew Gray joiner was drowned at sea on his way to America 16 years since... Wife’s parents Peter Robb, gardener and Marion Low both dead. "
In another application of 1867: "Margaret Robb, wife aged 41 years born Coylton Parish Ayrshire and her children to first husband - James Braid 14 years born Coylton parish...She had an illegitimate child before marriage, son John to one H. Wallace, is 16 years of age and app. Blacksmith, earns 5/- per week.
Her first husband’s child James aged 14 years born Coylton Parish, her first husband’s name was Braid."
Margaret herself made an application in 1871, when her husband James Robertson was in the fever hospital; it also says that son "James Gray, 16 6/12 [i.e. 16 yrs 6 months] , born in Coylton Ayrshire, presently confined to bed supposed to be taking fever. [on date] 28/1/71 Removed to fever hospital"
In 1899, Margaret makes another application. She has been long widowed by this time, and has spent time in Kirkcaldy with her daughter Marion Robertson.
"Widow James Robertson Margt Robb with illeg. son John Wallace, 88 Bernard Street Bn. F. 2up 1st.applies for admission to Hospital being certified by Dr Murdoch wholly disabled by Ulcers and debility. She has done nothing for 12 months p in Kirkcaldy as Lady’s Nurse.
The application is in consequence of the woman’s illness and the inability of son John to provide a Doctor & Nurse at home. Husband died 20 years ago in Castle St.
Family: Illeg. John Wallace 50 years, marr. & 5 – 2 daughters mar'd & 3 sons w'king in Singers & residing 88 Bernard St. he idle 7 weeks.
James Gray 47 Marr + 7 – 5 w'king & 4 young. Lab'r Whitehead & [?] wks Cowcaddens & residing 22 Adelphi St S.S.
Marion Robertson – 39 Marr. + 8 – 2 w'king - to Jas Robertson, Lab'r, residing 6 Mill St Westbridge Kirkcaldy.
Helen Robertson 37, Marr + 5 – 2 boys wking – to John McGough, Labr & residing 3 Bright St.
Residences: In present house – Barony 7 mos.
6 Mill St, Westbridge, Kirkcaldy – daur Marion"
On 13th January 1899, a van was sent for her removal to the City Hospital. No more about Andrew Gray, unfortunately.
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I can`t believe you got so much information ! However you have solved a couple of things I was puzzled about ,one being Margaret m to James Wallace. I did wonder about her name ,she is Margaret Burnet Robb ,and that is mostly on certs I have , but the name for marriage to J,Wallace was just Margaret Robb, so that has cleared that up. I am still digesting all you have sent ,but just wanted to thank you for it. If you wouldn`t mind I would like to get back to you when I have worked out who `s who .
Many thanks
EP
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No problem. Lots can often be learned from Poor Relief applications - some of it making very sad reading. When folk applied, they had every detail of their lives under scrutiny. Thankfully Glasgow's PR records have survived, many other haven't.
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Hi
I saw your thread re Jemima Pym and James Gray. They were my great, great grandparents.
I can maybe help you with some info
Janice :)
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Hi Janice ,
That would be great ,I would be really pleased to have some information on them .
Thanks
Evelyn