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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: thunderfoot on Friday 02 November 12 15:46 GMT (UK)
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I'm using the 1861 Census search on familysearch.org for the name of Sullivan in Glamorganshire. Have found one name (Daniel) at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M7BC-9L8 and believe his wife (Betzy) to be at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M7BC-9LD.
Daniel is shown as the Brother to the 'Head' and Betzy is shown as the Sister-in-Law to the 'Head', and I'm wondering if I can use the URL addresses to safely find other members of the same household, as I've noticed that the only difference between these URL's for Daniel & Betzy is "...9L8" & "...9LD" respectively, so I'm wondering if I can safely use all the other URL's that end "...9L*" as being from the same household???
If this works on the 1861 Census, would it work on other years????
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I tend to use Ancestry, or FindMyPast, for census look-ups.
That 1861 census is:
Reference RG09, Piece 4035, Folio 23, Page 49
30 William Street, Cardiff
Sullivan, Denis Head M 24 Blockmaker
Sullivan, Mary Ann Wife F 18
Sullivan, Daniel Brother M 30 Blockmaker
Sullivan, Betzey Sister-in-Law F 30
Sullivan, Julia Ann Niece F 8
Sullivan, Bartholomew Nephew M 6
Sullivan, Robert Nephew M 2
All born Ireland, except Robert who was born Cardiff.
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hi
here is the whole household of that census
Denis Sullivan 24
Mary Ann Sullivan 18
Daniel Sullivan 30 brother
Betzy Sullivan 35 sister in law
Julia Ann Sullivan 8
Bartholomew Sullivan 6
Robert Sullivan 2
ray
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I'm using the 1861 Census search on familysearch.org for the name of Sullivan in Glamorganshire. Have found one name (Daniel) at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M7BC-9L8 and believe his wife (Betzy) to be at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M7BC-9LD.
Daniel is shown as the Brother to the 'Head' and Betzy is shown as the Sister-in-Law to the 'Head', and I'm wondering if I can use the URL addresses to safely find other members of the same household, as I've noticed that the only difference between these URL's for Daniel & Betzy is "...9L8" & "...9LD" respectively, so I'm wondering if I can safely use all the other URL's that end "...9L*" as being from the same household???
If this works on the 1861 Census, would it work on other years????
Hi thunderfoot,
Welcome to RootsChat ! :) :)
How intriguing - I'd have never thought of doing that. I've just checked '9LF' and it belongs to Robert Sullivan. But 9LG belongs to Ellen Sullivan and she doesn't appear on either of the ones transcribed by Kevin or Ray ?
Kind regards,
Pels.
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How intriguing - I'd have never thought of doing that. I've just checked '9LF' and it belongs to Robert Sullivan. But 9LG belongs to Ellen Sullivan and she doesn't appear on either of the ones transcribed by Kevin or Ray ?
But - she is on the same census page with parents, William and Ellen.
The problem with doing this - if there are two families with the same name it would get dreadfully confusing because they'd get mixed up. Meaning you wouldn't know where one family finished and another started.
Does that make sense ?
Pels.
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But - she is on the same census page with parents, William and Ellen.
The problem with doing this - if there are two families with the same name it would get dreadfully confusing because they'd get mixed up. Meaning you wouldn't know where one family finished and another started.
Does that make sense ?
Pels.
Firstly, thanks for the 1861 extracts above.
Secondly, 'Pels', I wouldn't be surprised if the 'other' Sullivans were related to one's I'm interested in. Do you know if they were in William Street as well?
I just have a feeling that there is some sort of correlation between the URL's and "something" in the census; probably relates to street address.
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Hi again,
Yes - they lived at number 30, under the same roof as a family with the head of house called Michael Regan (Rope Dealer) and his family, who were also born in Ireland.
Here you are :
1861 census :
RG9/4035, Folio 23, Page 49
Glamorgan, Cardiff St Mary
30, William Street
William Sullivan, h, mar, 40, Rope Dealer, b. Ireland
Ellen, wife, 40, b. Ireland
Jeremiah, son, 5, Scholar, b. Glam, Cardiff
Ellen, dau, 6 mths, b. Glam, Cardiff
Timothy Morrison, lodger, unm, 24, Shipwright, b. Ireland
Pels.
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I just have a feeling that there is some sort of correlation between the URL's and "something" in the census; probably relates to street address.
I'm quite sure you're right - have to say it was well spotted.
Pels. :)
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The number in the URL obviously relate in some way to the enumeration - but not in a simple fashion. I checked a few more (9L1, 9L2, etc) and they are all on the same or adjoining page to the Sullivan family. But they are definitely not listed in order 9L1, 9L2, 9L3 etc. The could be using another coding system such as a Gray code to count through the entries (easy to implement, but not so easy for users to decipher). It could be possible to decode the system if enough data was collected in order to see the pattern.
Just looking at the page in question, the end of the previous page and the start of the next page:
922 Catherine Crowley 9
92L Mary Crowley 6
92G Margaret Crowley 3
92P David Crowley 1
925 Michael Regan 40
92R p48 end Margaret Regan 35
92T Null
92Y Null
92B p49 start Bridget Regan 18
921 Daniel Cremmins 40
9LM Mary Cremmins 40
9L9 John Daley 28
9LS Bridget Daley 25
9L3 Matthew Daley 3
9LQ William Daley 2
9L7 Catherine Hyde 33
9LW Nicholas Hyde
9L4 William Brian, 30
9LH Mary Brian 30
9LC Denis Sullivan 24
9LZ Mary Ann Sullivan 18
9L8 Daniel Sullivan 30 brother
9LD Betzy Sullivan 35 sister in law
9L6 Julia Ann Sullivan 8
9LX Bartholomew Sullivan 6
9LF Robert Sullivan 2
9LN Michael Regan 38
9LJ Catherine Regan 40
9LV Mary Regan 16
9LK William Sullivan, h, mar, 40, Rope Dealer, b. Ireland
9L2 Ellen, wife, 40, b. Ireland
9LL Jeremiah, son, 5, Scholar, b. Glam, Cardiff
9LG p49 end Ellen, dau, 6 mths, b. Glam, Cardiff
9LP Null
9L5 Null
9LR p50 start Timothy Morrison, lodger, unm, 24, Shipwright, b. Ireland
9LT Null
9LY Thomas Mahoney 33
9LB Mary Mahoney 26
9L1 Patrick Mahoney 2
0 (zero) and the vowels A, E, I, O, U and lower case letters return error messages.
This shows that 9L does not relate to a household or even a page - it's just part of the counting system used.
The sequence appears to repeat - though the 'null's, particularly the 'T' needs a little more confirmatory work.
Pages appear to be separated by two 'nulls', empty properties return a 'null'. Presumably blank lines will also return a 'null' and there may well be some other way (eg three nulls) to indicate a break between enumeration districts.
The possible sequence = M9S3Q7W4HCZ8D6XFNIVK2LPG5RTYB1 them M again.
Note that the same sequence appears to work on each 'digit' of the alphanumeric 'number' - 92 is followed by 9L as 9L2 is followed by 9LL. So 9L should be followed by 9P etc up to 91 then SM etc. Feel free to test this theory ...
This sequence may well be a standard counting system of some sort (definitely not a Gray code) - if anyone recognises it I'd be interested to know.
This might help users of familysearch to see the order of the enumeration - but not the important breaks between households.